An observation of the Hindraf rally
November 25, 2007
Malaysiakini has it that I led the 10-man Bar monitoring team.
Not true.
Bar Councillor Edmund Bon led the team.
The plan was for the team to meet at the KLCC LRT station.
7.28am - got an sms that ’10s of thousands r already at klcc. Tear gas n water cannon shot at them.
7.39am - got an sms that ‘klcc n ampang park lrt r closed. Meet at d wangi at 8.30am’.
As I headed to Dang Wangi LRT, encountered a steady stream of people making their way along Jalan Ampang headed for the British Embassy.
Whilst waiting for the team got the following smses from team members who had already made their way to KLCC.
8.31am - Massive crowds are gathering at klcc from different places. Cheers going up everywhere every few seconds as new groups arrive. crowd easily at 10k. Fired tear gas earlier at abt 0700. SB watching us. Tension mounts.
8.47am - FRU form up, ready to move in. 0845hrs crowds still streaming into klcc. More than 10k unsure how much more. Water cannons being readied. Warning issued to disperse otherwise poilce say ‘kami akan gunakan kekerasan’. Water cannons moves in violently water sprayed. Crowds defiant.
8.49am - Water sprayed. Cry of defiance goes up. Fru form up. Crowds throw canisters back at police. Canisters fired from 2 directions. People take assault & stand firm.
By now, the team is assembled and a decision is taken to head in the direction of KLCC to assess the situation before any decision can be taken about deployment. Zorro and e.woon are with us.
As we walked, more smses come in from the team at KLCC.
8.56am - Fru fire tear gas. again and again..in different directions. Crowd of 15k watches from across angkasa raya.
The team reached the first crowd somewhere near Saloma’s restaurant.
There is a roar and applause all-round when they realise that the Bar team had arrived.
These people complained about the gas.
Saw a photographer standing high on a wall and got him to take the next picture. Its in the direction of KLCC.
More smses from the team members at KLCC.
9.03am - Crowds defiant. Winds shifts. Gas drifts towards police. Crowds disperse & reform. Again and again. Helicopter flies low. We are troubled by teargas. Crowds move away from police but wait at edges
9.12am - Pictures of Gandhi displayed by crowds. Chants of ‘long live hindraf”. Crowds just swirls around police. Standoff. Banners say ‘we are malaysians, we want our rights’. People are chanting and clapping, but otherwise fru & crowds are so far, non-violent.
9.16am - Banners read : queen of england, symbol of justice, we still have hope on u. Water cannon fired again. Crowds standing, not retreating. People are actually walking into the water cannon. Amazing.
We decided to move forward, but encountered a problem, which, it would turn out, would recur right through and proved to be an obstacle to our work.
Everytime we moved forward to head towards KLCC, the crowd would move along with us. Thank God Ashok was with us. Explained to them that they could not follow us, or it would appear as if we were leading them. Explained that we were there to monitor and observe and were not part of the rally.
The crowd appeared to be in disarray. They seemed to be at a loss as to how to move forward. The team members felt that there appeared to be a lack of leadership within the ranks.
Another sms.
9.24am - Crowd with hailers request police not to shoot them. That they are hear to ask for their rights only. Police continue to rain down teargas. People are trying to show to police, by their body language that they mean no harm. Standoff again.
Finally, someone managed to explain to the crowd and we were able to make our way and reach the junction leading into Jalan Yap Kwan Seng.
Now we saw for ourselves the water cannons being fired.
Another sms.
9.33am - Crowds move in towards police, chanting ‘hindraf aman’. Fru and police watch impassively. Siren sounds. Water cannons and tear gas fired again. Crowds plead thru hailer ‘kita damai. Don’t hit us. After we will disperse’.
A canister misses Ashok and another misses me.
Damn, they are firing laterally.
The smoke is overwhelming.
3 young men help me over a railing to try and get behind the police line.
Another round of canisters fired.
The smoke is simply unbearable.
Retreat back toward the traffic lights at the junction with Jalan Yap Kwan Seng.
Another sms.
9.38am - Helicopter continues to hover. Water cannons fired again. Crowds have not dispersed
Eyes smarting, throat burning, we regroup and decide to try to get to Jalan Tun Razak through Jalan Yap Kwan Seng.
Same problem again. The crowd are following us.
Another sms.
Explain to the crowd again that they cannot follow us. Decide to let them go ahead. notice that there seems to be a lull back at KLCC. Decide to backtrack, get back on to Jalan Ampang behind the police line and try to walk from there to the embassy.
Another sms.
10.10am - A man holding a white flag wearing a Gandhi photo,waves at the police. Has been there for an hour. There’s a large banner being held up ‘kami aman’. Fru moves against crowd. Throw canisters at crowd, crowd throw it back.
We back on Jalan Ampang behind the police line.
Water cannon fired again.
More smses.
10.24am - Water cannon fired. Fru issues order to ’standby’. Tear gas canisters are thrown back at police.
10.25am - Actually saw police firing gas canisters directly into the crowd. that was unnecessary and dangerous. fru men physically threaten some peaceful onlookers.
We start to walk in the direction of the embassy. People on the other side of the road are getting into a bit of a frenzy and making their way to join us. FRU getting agitated with us.
Water cannon truck comes in and fires.
It turns out that some of the people thought we were part of the ‘rombongan’ to hand the petition to the emabssy.
We decide that to attempt to move further would risk another confrontation between the FRU and the crowd. We decide to stay put where we were, which was across from Wisma Central.
Between us and Ampang Park, you could still see a large crowd.
From hereon its a lot of waiting and waiting.
Edmund gets a call to say head back to the Pakistani embassy. Word is that the petition is to be handed over there now.
The picture below is the view of the crowd in Jalan Yap Kwan Seng on the way back to the Pakistani embassy.
Just before reaching the Pakistani embassy, which is slightly opposite the Saloma restaurant, stood on a railing to take the picture below. This is in the direction of Jalan Sultan Ismail.
At about 11.40am, someone gave the announcement to disperse.
They did, and peacefully.
Just had confirmation from Amer Hamzah that at Pulapol, there were more than 400 arrestees. of which 67 have been remanded.
At IPK, remand proceedings of another 60 or so are still ongoing.
No confirmation as yet on casualties.
So, was the rally a success?
That’s Hindraf’s call.
My take.
I saw some very determined Malaysians out there this morning.
Translate them into votes and we might just see the last of Samy.
Was the use of water cannons and tear gas warranted?
It was unnecessary and most excessive, in my view.
Looking forward to saying ‘Sorry, I was wrong’ tomorrow.
November 25, 2007 at 8:50 pm
Dear Brother Haris,
Was very happy to see u there. The photo taken with u will be added to my favourites collection.
Finally indians stood for themselves….To me the betrayal of Samy velu & MIC hurts more than the tear gas and chemical laced water ( Whtever it was, its still stinging even now as I write this comment ).
I was proud to be there!!
November 25, 2007 at 8:57 pm
>I saw some very determined Malaysians out there this
>morning.
>Translate them into votes and we might just see the last >of Samy.
I say:
Yes, Let’s do a John Howard on Samy and kick him out of his own constituency come election day!
November 25, 2007 at 9:00 pm
hmm nice …thanks to the bar council who helped for the release of those in Pulapol
November 25, 2007 at 9:07 pm
Brother Haris.
Thank you
Being an ex PDRM officer, I did go there too, as for long I know whats going on and done by the ruling elite. Its not only indians are left behind, entire malaysians..there are so many poor malays, indians, chinese and others.
But the ruling elite is now becoming too arrogrant..and exclusive, come General Elections they will know…and for SAMY VELU for had betrayed the trust of all indians….the end is coming for u……
What happen in Kg Pasir, Shah Alam is the turning point.
November 25, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Haris
i may disagree with you most of the time, but i think you have taken a balanced stand in this issue. We may agree or disagree with Hindraf, but nobody can deny them their right to assemble peacefuly. And, as far as crisis management is concern, thumbs down to Dolah’s gomen!
Banyak aku dapat maklumat dalam laporan hang. Tq!
November 25, 2007 at 9:55 pm
haris, your being part pf the BAR team despite yourstand on racial delienation speaks for youraelf. I was dissapointed that I was not up to it physically. Thanks for your updates. Hopefully people will know that their rights have yet again been trampled by the very government they voted for. Though I still dont believe in communal politics, i still believe in their right to gather peacefully, and despite their pleas of being peaceful, the police treated them otherwise. As expectedTV3 played up the loss of business and interuptions to traffic astheir top of the news.
eNOUGH! People, time to change! Look at Russia! Even Putin allowed the opposition to gather! and , today we are only talking about Malaysians who want their rights to gather!
again, I say, I don’t believe in HINDAF’s argument, but I do support their righht to gather!
November 25, 2007 at 9:58 pm
Dear Haris,
This is incredible.
Despite clear warning from the government - despite roadblocks dating from last Sunday - at least 10K(some say 30K) people entered KL?
Not questioning you - but really - how come?
It is evident - in fact a reliable source of mine says that Pak Lah - instructed IGP for the men/women to be let in and then later attacked- some sort of revenge for the previous rally and also warning to the next possible one.
However again it is evident - that when you deal with people that have nothing left to loose - who care damn bout their own lifes - they will go against all odds to prove a point - and prove a point they did.
To me this is the damndest slap on Badawi’s face - his mighty men armed with weapons - could not deal with peaceful marchers - I would not be surprised if Badawi has been sent the marching orders from Kampala.
November 25, 2007 at 10:01 pm
I take my hat off for all my courageous Indian friends, tears rolling down my face uncontrollably even as I write.
I pray that the country will turn for the better soon.
November 25, 2007 at 10:06 pm
There was no need for police on duty to use tear gas and water cannons on the peaceful demonstrators. These are fellow Malaysians, for goodness’ sake.
Their cause may be misplaced, but their right to assemble must remain inalienable.
November 25, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Thanks.
Now, as you rightly point out, how do we (progressive Indian-Malaysians, especially) translate this show of defiance, cry for change to votes for the Opposition, and for a progressive Malaysia? A lot needs to be done. The responsibility they’ve placed on us. Hmm…
November 25, 2007 at 10:23 pm
It is never wrong to ask for what it is one’s rights. Even when one has to “cry” while trying.
Article 10 provides Malaysians the right to assemble and complain and petition peacefully without arms.
The polis should be protecting this right of Malaysians. Instead they appear to be out to suppress this right of Malaysians and often using violent means. So who is in the wrong?
According to the PM, actions must be taken against those who break the law. Will the PM now take action against the polis for not protecting our rights as provide by Article 10?
November 25, 2007 at 10:25 pm
Hats off to the bravos. What I fear most is the retalliantion from the government directly and indirectly .Hopefully there is positive not negative. Lets show them that we have nothing to lose anymore. Most of it is laready lost. Down with MIC!
November 25, 2007 at 11:10 pm
This is sure an awakening in the people who are willing to take a definite position for what is right.
November 25, 2007 at 11:18 pm
After all that, after the march, the tear gas, water cannons and the traffic jam, the leaders now say they will hand over the petition in London with a delegation of ten. Why wasn’t it planned like that from the start?
November 25, 2007 at 11:24 pm
US lost the war in Vietnam. i repeat LOST! not on the battlefield, lack of fire power or Napalm bombs but in US livingroom. Walter Cronkite , changed the U.S. public’s attitude about the war and it’s horror! The conscience of humanity is same everywhere on this planet earth. i believe that the uncalled for police action against peaceful demonstrators (Hindraf)will come and bite BN’s A*S comes election.
Bersih have delivered a black eye and now Hindraf another one to the Panda Government which have been pandering it’s citizenry.
November 25, 2007 at 11:43 pm
jayaklang
god bless you and those that were there to reclaim their dignity. me, a malaysian with you all always for righteouness and truth and of course dignity.
November 25, 2007 at 11:47 pm
zero votes for MIC candidates? seems like a worthwhile endeavour…
November 26, 2007 at 12:05 am
[...] more about this here: sagaladoola harisibrahim screenshots [...]
November 26, 2007 at 12:08 am
Haris, as much as u dont want to be part of the walk and had expressed ur reservation about Hindraf’s objectives, by being there and enduring the pains and brutality of the police with them, u have in my mind endear to them ur humanity. It may be too early to judge but by sharing the stinging pain of the gas and water, u share with them their pain.
Based on ur report, they are like sheeps looking for a shepherd to lead them. They do not pretend to be the smartest nor the greatest of people, only the dogged defiant against injusticeness against them. As Malik puts it, they may not have everything, but they still retain that dignity of a human being. If harms, injuries, pains is necessary to ensure their dignity, so be it then.
Civil society needs to honestly examine itself so that man can truly live in freedom from fear and want. The police need to ask themselves, are they any superior in their brute force. Who won? Who has overcome? The police, hence the authority, with their might, strength, and superiority, or Hindraf in their clueless, and weak organisation?
It is time for paradigm shift from our faulty racial superiority vision to that of accepting each and every person in their uniqueness and dignity and move towards a society that the very least to find a space and a voice for themselves.
If there is any chance, lets do an Aussie in the next election to begin the process to dismantle proud and arrogant excess and to envigorate civil society.
Samy, and all proud and mighty arrogant BN parties, time to go while u have the chance before throw like wastewater onto the ditch.
There is a prayer that goes something like this:
You bring down the proudhearted and lift up the lowly.
Cheers my friend. It has been tough for u and for many. This time is totally different from 10-11. This one is a baptism of fire for Malaysia for this generation. It has tore open the skin-deep superficiality of our muhibah facade to reveal our darken racial prejudices, in how some of us look at others. It is a lesson for me as much as for everyone who care to learn about the uniqueness and dignity of each human being.
Good night and good rest to you.
November 26, 2007 at 12:59 am
Dear Bro Haris,
I am proud of the Malaysians who joined together to support HINDRAF rally despite the police/fru brutality. I am proud to see you and the lawyers, who joined together to help those who in need of help.
I salute you all and thank you!
November 26, 2007 at 1:21 am
Brother Haris…
Greetings to you…you have stood firm and had helped us to reveal the ruth which had taken place on this historic day…Salute you…
Thanks bro!
November 26, 2007 at 1:47 am
HINDRAF Rally of the Marginalised (Videos and Pics)
November 26, 2007 at 1:59 am
All they were saying & asking was “Give us a Chance to Hand in the Petition to British High Commission” – just an hour maybe. And what they got were tears and chemical water. It is most regrettable they were not given the chance to hand over the petition (was a copy faxed over). And the gall of the IGP in the interview to say they were no leaders there to submit the petition. Read his shameful words “ we allowed it”
ALJazeera: Your officers were fairly effective in driving the protesters away from the British High Commission, do you think that had they been allowed to hand over the petition at the High C, this would have ended peacefully without any disturbance?
IGP: Well first of all we allowed it; but of course they got no leaders with them’ So we don’t know who wants to hand over the memorandum. And by the end of it the, leaders came, but later on they didn’t even hand over the memorandum to the British High Commission.
More details, two Video Clips (Protest & interview) at
Go H E R E
November 26, 2007 at 3:57 am
Harris,
That is one good observation you have there. Even though I was not there, felt like I was…at least you have seen first hand what happened.
By the way, takes a lot of guts to say ‘Sorry, I was wrong’. Respect!
IH
November 26, 2007 at 5:36 am
Haris Ibrahim,
You have taken a stand because its not worth fighting for the indians.
Bangsa Malaysia starts with tiny steps…first step is all races need to be equal first before we even explore bangsa malaysia.
Anyhow, its ur choice, but to write in your blog prominently that you do not support or discourage people from walking is unfair. What BERSIH is to you is what HINDRAF is to most Indians. Dont say that we need to show this in the ballot boxes in the next elections because thats what Nazri said to all of you for the BERSIH rally.
Secretly or openly, I am certain you support the Palestenian cause. If this is true, whats the difference bro?
The gomen is trampling on my religion.
November 26, 2007 at 7:21 am
“Defiance”. Screamed the NST & Star this morning. When a government has lost its moral authority to govern, that’s what the people will do.
November 26, 2007 at 9:29 am
When you have a sudden deluge of water cascading downstream from either a burst reservoir of water the greatest damage is caused by all the hurdles that it has to meander through. Had only its passage been clear thta stream of water would have just run through it very swiftly and before you can say Bob’s your uncle it would be gone.
Same with Hindraf rally. If the police had only cleared the way for all of them to congregate, move on to deliver the memorandum and go…there would have been nothing to write about.
November 26, 2007 at 9:42 am
If government had supported the rally, everything would have gone down smooth and most likely the crowd would have dispersed as soon as the memo have been handed to the embassy.
The government forgot that these people are also their own rakyat. They are supposed to protect these harmless people.
November 26, 2007 at 9:49 am
the govt could have easily come to the negotiation table and dicussed various issues and come to compromises.give and take policy;the hallmark of a GREAT GOVT,but no efforts take to initiate talks.hell bent on using tear gas and chemical spray.maybe trying to finish the old and unused stk.A SAD DAY FOR MALAYSIA
November 26, 2007 at 9:53 am
Hi Haris,
While i agree that there are many underprivileged, deprived and marginalised Malaysians in all communities, i support Hindraf’s brave move. i am glad that i was there during the rally and proud of all those who braved the water cannons and tear gas.
Peace for all and may a positive change takes over.
November 26, 2007 at 10:52 am
So far I have spoken to two of my expat colleagues who live in Ampang Hilir very close to the British High Comm. One of them who I had already warned (and explained) about the rally, left his house with his wife at 7.30am. He said he saw the police all lined up at waiting. His words: “they looked very excited and eager to just bash people up”. He saw some of the water cannon activity and said it was so unnecessary.
Another said he saw quite a number of tear gas cannisters lying on the road afterwards. He too shared the view that the police were being unnecessarily aggressive - they were intimidating the people and shouting abuses at them.
I will speak to more residents in that area to get their feedback and keep you posted.
November 26, 2007 at 11:02 am
Emotions are running high and eventually sometimes it will only cloud our judgment. Let’s not play the blame game or trying to ridicule others.
If any of you has grouses. Please convey it in a civilized manner so that I can make my own conclusion on what is actually going on from all the feedbacks given.
Blaming others is not the right way to disagree. Agree that there is a problem and let’s start from that.
November 26, 2007 at 11:14 am
To see our Malaysian police raining teargas and water laced with chemical on fellow innocent Malaysians made me both sad and angry. Further, to see the scenes at Batu Caves, it just go to prove that this UMNO led government is not only arrogant but evil as well.
I doubt the British resorted to such brutality on Tunku Abdul Rahman & co when they were for fighting for our independence then.
Now, the fight for our real independence begins. We must put an end to this evil and corrupted BN government.
Malaysians must wake up and see the true colours of BN.
November 26, 2007 at 12:29 pm
I pity those who were there. What do Malaysians get if they voice out whats in their mind? Tear gas and water canon. Dogs were also released at Batu Caves.
I dont support Hindraf and its agenda. But I do stand for the right to speak up my mind! I’m a man.. not a puppet.
Does it matter to stand for what you believe? Yes it does. Your turn will come soon, you’ll understand by then.
Thanks for the fair views in this forum.
November 26, 2007 at 12:44 pm
just a thought………
did SEMIVALUED secretly attended the HINDRAF gathering you think?
afterall none would recognise him if he …….. wears a different toupee.
hehehehe, just a thought.
November 26, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Put an end to BN how? Malays are afraid of DAP, non-Malays are afraid of PAS, and nobody really love Anwar Ibrahim except himself.
November 26, 2007 at 1:24 pm
The Chinese and Indians who now rail against the BN are a funny lot.
They have only one legitimate complaint and that is they did not get who they voted for. Frankly, there is no cause for complaint. They thoroughly deserve the party they voted for.
I bet they will never change because it is a trait they have exhibited for years. A lot of talk with much gusto but turn into chickens on election day. Hope I’m wrong next elections but I don’t feel luck is on my side.
November 26, 2007 at 1:34 pm
very well documented, glad to be able to see a less biased version than that in the newspapers.
i’m british and agree entirely that my country has a lot to answer for, not just here but in other parts of the former british empire. it does us good to be reminded. i know that actually this isn’t quite the point of the memorandum (;-D) and think it is an excellent way to make a point that needs to be made.
even if i’m not malaysian i have taught in malaysian schools and have close indian friends and know something of just how big the challenges are for the community, particularly for its poorest members.
the use of excessive force is very worrying … being able to peacefully march for a cause is a keystone of democracy. i am certainly glad i was able to march in london against the iraq war and be one of hundreds of thousands making their displeasure known to the british government. one of my abiding memories of that day was the presence of the police, helping the marchers by making sure traffic was stopped.
November 26, 2007 at 1:36 pm
to find a solution to this, is to ensure that we can deny BN two thirds majority and STOP GERRY MANDERING, POSTAL AND PHANTOM VOTES!
you ask who is capable of running the country? i said if it happens, we have amicable people to run it and then can choose the best leader. but to continue having a rubbish PM and his cronies and the evil UMNO-BN, we are doomed before we start.
now, if you ask anyone who been to the rallies to attend another one, they will go.
Defiance? no NST, Star .. I call it The Will and The Resolve of The PEOPLE!
November 26, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Will the Hindraf rally affect subsequent rally that comes under the banner of Bangsa Malaysia or Peoples Parliament. It was hard on both sides, Police and Hindraf, but the Police suffered serious casualities. In crowd dispersal, after 3 warnings teargas and water canon are fired. In the police doctrine that is minimum force. Of course the public will say that is brutality, but has Hindraf suffered serious casualities. The point I am trying to make is “”will the police comes down hard on the next rally??”"
Say in the next rally you can get a crowd of more than 100,000 or 300,000, is there a problem for the police to handle this crowd. No it is much easier. If the police resources are exhausted and justifies that there will be loses of lives and public property, they will fall back to the various law they have in their bag.
It was a good thing that the crowd at batu caves dispersed in time for the police to take other punitive action. In the course of carrying out their duties the police individual also have a right to defend themselves.
One may ask why the Bersih rally was subjected to very
minimum firing of teargas and water canon and it was confine to the masjid jamek area. Reason, the Bersih’s rally was not unruly and aggressive as compared to the Hindraf rally where the police were rained with stones and capsules.
In the Bersihs rally you can even see their members shouting and restraining their other fellow members not to shout at the police. When tear gas and water canon were fired they just dispersed and regroup in another place,giving an indication to the police that they were peaceful. Bersih’s participant were well briefed, coordinated, disciplined and was led all the time.
Having a rally is easy but an organized one is difficult. Hope it will not affect Peoples Parliament future rally.
November 26, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Abuhanaan,
The only way to out a dent in the BN is by the way of the vote - assuming that the electoral process is fair and open without “phantom voters” or missing boxes.
What is wrong with giving the opposition parties a chance to govern ? If they are bad, we vote them out. Remember - it is the rakyat that votes.
To me, if the opposition can win 40% of the seats (not the popular vote), that will be a victory already. And if it displaces the BN, it would be a tearful day indeed as we would have truly experience democracy.
November 26, 2007 at 1:58 pm
Dear Haris,
Thank u for the detailed coverage of the rally. It simply shows that the rakyat is fed-up wt the present leadership. It would be graceful if they have any grace to step down voluntarily esp. Samy Vellu. Many indians are disgusted wt the MIC. Personally don’t think they can garner any votes this time around. The rakyat regardless of colour or creed should step forward and kick the asses of the present leadership!
November 26, 2007 at 2:01 pm
[...] zorro (partly hidden) and i - pix courtesy of The People’s Parliament [...]
November 26, 2007 at 4:08 pm
i have read all the remarks of these Ministers, Ka Ting, Samy and IGP, Muhyinddin and the PM too come to conclude that those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority must find this time their BULLSHIT hard to swallow! ARRRH PUI…sorry have to spit it out.
November 26, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Well done Bar Council Monitoring Team!
Standing up for one’s rights and calling attention to marginalisation cannot be called communalism or racism.
‘Oppose injustice. Stand with those who oppose injustice. Make it your own (fight). For it is injustice to you’
I hope Haris will ponder over this and perhaps make some amendments?
November 26, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Dear Haris,
You have touched many hearts with your piece today.
My bood was boiling this morning reading Joseph Raj’s “lets work with the MIC”article in the Star.
This fellow sounds like Wong Chun Wai’s “——–”.
And the way this Wong fellow writes he obviously has no regard for Indians.And the same goes for his boss Ong Ka Ting.
November 26, 2007 at 5:38 pm
The awoved aim was to hand over a memorandum.Really it doesn’t take more than a few people to do so.So what really is the idea of amassing thousands to march to hand over that memorandum? To show that you have wide support for the memorandum? Won’t thousands of signatures attached to the memorandum establish that? Copies of the same can always be circulated, including to the press and media, to prove that the support is there.So why really was it necessary to have thousands march? For the publicity? If so,is that the only way
to publicise it? Or are there other ways just as effective which does not endanger the public and which does not provide the justification for the police to intervene ?
In any such march involving tens of thousands can the organisers guarantee that the crowd or sections of the crowd will not become unruly? I fear not.Whether it arises from the supporters themselves or agent provocateurs planted amongst their midst or just plain opportunists, the danger to the public is real.Are the organisers prepared to take responsibility if anything untowards happens? Are they entitled to say “Let us exercise our right to assemble and damn the consequences?”
What is the role and responsibility of the public authority, in this case the government and police, when such marches take place? Isn’t it that their paramount obligation to society is to maintain public order? Do they then wait for clashes to take place before they intervene or do they take pre-emptive measures? Will they not then be failing in their duty if trouble erupts? Does anyone seriously think they will react by
saying “Well, the organisers say it will be peacful,so let’s take their word”? Won’t the pubic condemn them if trouble then breaks out?
Even if things turn out to be peaceful, are the police then to be expected to utilise huge resources manning the area if interest-groups start organising marches every other week?
These are some of the issues that I feel needs to be given some thought to.It is fine to be idealistic and courageous but wisdom should always prevail.I dont claim to have all the answers to the many questions I have raised, but certainly a re-think is perhaps in order with regard to strategies employed.That there are issues that need to be highlighted and publicised, without a doubt.But in doing so,one must be careful to do so in a manner that does not put the public at large at risk or where it can easily spin out of control nor in a manner that leaves the authority in charge of public order little choice but to quell it.
One cannot totally fault an authority entrusted with maintaining public order if they come out in a show of force, as it is that which is the easiest way to maintain order.Perhaps the way is not to pit force aginst force but to outwit them in other ways.
What about a memorandum demanding more decent terms of service for the police force and their families? How will the police react? Just food for thought.
November 26, 2007 at 5:40 pm
To be honest, I think that Malaysian Indians have been long deprived and pushed aside as the nation builds it’s wealth. Hence, it is no surprise that they took to the street to show their anger and disappointment.
When one is boiling with anger and frustration, I guess it no longer matters what is to be lost so long that his/her grievances may be heard by the world at large.
The world heard of our pleas on 10-Eleven. Be rest assured that more will be watching and hearing us.
As for the arrogant and selfish bunch of supposingly ‘civil servants’ running this country who has betrayed our trust and faith, the world has it’s eyes on you too!
November 26, 2007 at 6:11 pm
pm wrote:
“….One may ask why the Bersih rally was subjected to very
minimum firing of teargas and water canon and it was confine to the masjid jamek area.”
In Hindraf rally the crowd was subjected to MAX tear gas and water cannon. Didn’t you see the malaysiakini video clip where an elderly woman is saying even as they were dispersing the police were shooting tear gas at them. Even way after the rally the indians who were eating at Pelita rest. were dragged out of the shop, beaten and arrested. Pix will appear soon in youtube.
“Reason, the Bersih’s rally was not unruly and aggressive as compared to the Hindraf rally where the police were rained with stones and capsules.”
The people were mercilessly treated that’s when they reacted.
This happened in Batu Caves.
How do you expect the people to react when they were locked inside the temple and shot with water cannon and tear gas. See the pix in jeffooi.com.
Don’t simply shoot your words out before you get the facts in front of you. Anyhow i hope somebody will sue the government and esp. sack that damn igp for shooting out the water cannon and tear gas for those who had taken shelter in a place of worship.
November 26, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Devi wrote: “Even way after the rally the indians who were eating at Pelita rest. were dragged out of the shop, beaten and arrested. Pix will appear soon in youtube.”"
This will go on until the police are satisfied.
“Batu Caves” they were asked to disperse , didn’t they?
November 26, 2007 at 10:38 pm
i was not thinking much about the Hindraf rally.BUT,after seeing the video clips of how rowdy the police had been,my heart cried for the innocent and harmless people.The many sms indians received said that permit had been given.So,many turned up to give support for a good cause.The young man who was attacked by 3 police officers and dragged on the street like a pariah dog does not deserve this.I had tears in my eyes after seeing this rowdism .In many ways this acts by the police and unsupportive words of our leaders has made the rakyat think,the rakyat being not only indian but other races as well.
November 27, 2007 at 1:41 am
My grandmother who died in 1965 must be turning in her grave. She would never have believed that members of the Royal Malaysian Police would one day fire tear gas and chemical-laced water cannons against their fellow Malaysians of all shades and colours.
And these were fellow Malaysians who were out to tell our political leaders the truth.
I remember as a child my grandmother admonishing her three sons to serve our country well by treating well the people they are to protect.
“Be kind to people,” she said. Her three sons were sent into the jungles of Malaya to fight the armed communists.
They survived their many assignments. Two then saw service in the various towns of Malaya until their retirement.
One is still alive, in his seventies.
My poor grandmother cannot rest in peace now. I am sure of this because she used to think so very highly of police officers who keep the peace.
The violence shown to fellow Malaysians in Sunday’s demonstration would have altered her worldview radically.
My poor grandmother …
November 27, 2007 at 2:20 am
The HINDRAF rally was a success, in that it finally showed the international community the deeply divisive racial politics of BN and also for empowering the Indians after 50 years of marginalization. In fact HINDRAF’s rally may have even eclipsed BERSIH’s in terms of impact and emotion conveyed.
Here was the poorest, most alienated and oppressed race in West Malaysia managed to gather 30,000+ people in defiance of overwhelming threats of state power. Unlike BERSIH’s they were not supported by all the prominent NGOs neither the 3 main opposition parties. It was a true grassroots movement from the very bottom rungs of society.
On another note, concerning violence in Batu Caves, it seems that many who should know better but still fall for the lies of the mainstream media. Wasn’t there violence also in the BERSIH gathering in Batu Buruk? Why do some people apply one standard concerning Batu Buruk but another concerning Batu Caves?
Look at this video (the last 30 seconds) which has vital footage on what really happened in Batu Caves - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU8ZsNYSGbQ
and look at Jeff Ooi’s blog for photos on the Batu Caves incident and compare it to the mainstream media’s account as well as the patently false statements from the IGP.
November 27, 2007 at 9:47 am
I have to say we made history. For the past 50 years of ‘democratic independence’,there was not much done for the indian community.Looking at the whole picture, it’s an eye opener not only for the Indians,but also other races. I do not want to mention but we know that one particular race has to surrender the riches to these buffoons and we know they are not the Indians. I want to see how they are going to stop further rallies which i expect to be held soon. [remember election coming soon ma...]Also how MIC thugs are going to scare people away from the ballot boxes. The comical part is, Mr. Semi Value[ we know who] has been made a laughing stock not only among the Indians but within his own Cabinet. I had friends who were scholars and came all the way from NZ to check the situation out. But I have to say Mr. Udhayakumar, I was very dissapointed at the racial chant that took place. We were there not to support militancy but a peaceful rally. It’s a disgrace to carry Gandhi’s picture and act vice versa. But of course, who does not get heated up, I will have to admit you are a man with balls of steel, credit to your alliance as well, I will definitely be there to support the objective of your mission…remember it’s our rights that we wants and not a single incident of Sri Lanka violence.
November 27, 2007 at 9:52 am
Let’s not react with anger. Rather lets demand transparency so we can all sleep soundly that Malaysia still upholds justice. LETS DEMAND TRANSPARENCY. If anyone has err, lets put it behind and correct the current policies or abuses before it numbs us to accept them as part of our culture of being corrupt and unjust.
1. A public inquiry to any killings done and official figures of dead bodies if any and the emphasis of the need for security and impartiality by the police.
2. Official figures of how many mosque, churches, temples are demolished, the official count and how many permits allowed from Independence to now.
3. Official figures of the NEP, the capital held, what contracts are given to who at how much and if this is getting worse by the day with certain groups of people getting more impatient and greedy.
4. Official figures of government spending - how it is spend and how to get the abuse of funds to be paid back.
5. Royal inquiry into judiciary, police, ACA, Election Commission if proper procedures are followed and if there are independence from the executive (government admin) and parliment.
6. Emphasis on the continuation of affirmative action towards the Bumiputera for training and education and careful scrutiny of how money is spent to those deserving - not to those who could afford holidays around the world. Emphasis that the culture is to reward hard work and efforts and no race is above another. All this is enshrined in the Constitution where no race is treated at the expense of another.
7. This can all be done methodically and peacefully if done early. It will then be the greatest example of reform wanted by the RAKYAT in a peaceful manner and hopefully agreed by the government.
WE ARE AN UPRIGHT CULTURE. LETS STICK TO IT. DO NOT LET GREED EAT INTO IT TOO MUCH.
Greed is very common. And we can only nod that we all learn from mistakes. Yet, we need to make right what is wrong before it gets way to difficult to redress it when we have been numbed by evil.
ITS OK TO BE CORRUPT and UNJUST. (mentioned by many in better wording)
Should not be in the minds of the future generation. LETS START WITH THIS GENERATION.
LETS DEMAND TRANSPARENCY.
Forward this to as many blogs as possible and print it out. We need greater awareness to want change in a peaceful manner.
November 27, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Now the P.M say that they are ready to hear any arguments….for what!!!!….why now???why not before the rally???AND WHERE IS HE NOW???….A good leader is who supposed to be with when there is a problen…..
November 27, 2007 at 3:24 pm
I was very touched by ur eye-witness report.
What makes it so pitiful is your description of the people who were like lost sheep?
Whilst the sheep were bleeting for their leadership or their shepherds who were missing.
Yet these people are looking for “leaders”, just like the rest of Malaysia. We are looking for leaders who will lead us out of this quagmire. We need Onn bin Jaafar’s, TAR’s, Tun Ismail’s, Tan Chee Koon, Sambanthan, etc. Real leaders who can lead us.
Unfortunately the Almighty seems to have blessed us with leaders whose ultimate goal is self gratification.
What do u say, this weekend, we all light a candle for our country. MALAYSIA!
My friend,
Today is my lucky day.
2 powerful suggestions in one day.
Let’s go for it.
November 27, 2007 at 5:02 pm
The more I mull it over, the clearer it becomes that Malaysia’s political climate started getting stormy exactly one year ago… when news of Altantuya Shaariibuu’s gruesome abduction, possible rape, and murder broke. If Badawi had responded with integrity and ordered the investigation to proceed without hindrance, regardless of where the bloodtrail led, Malaysia would have turned a corner and proceeded towards greater maturity and openness. Unfortunately, Badawi opted to cover up and in so doing incurred the wrath of the gods of karma. There’s no turning back now. If we don’t dump the BN and all their mediocre, mendacious, and megalomaniacal menteris, this beautiful country will end up in the rubbish dump of history. No nation can flourish when led by the totally unethical and disreputable. I salute all those who braved police brutality to show the BN enough is enough. Badawi is making a serious mistake allowing Najib to even show his face in public, what more shoot his fat mouth off.
That man is dead meat.
November 28, 2007 at 4:31 pm
We all know the truth..behind these demonstrations and truly the one thing remaining is to prove a point at the votes.we need to just convince all we know to cast the appropriate vote so that there would be a better check and balance and not a lob sided heavy handed goverment
December 1, 2007 at 8:08 am
Sir,
Your observation and comments are excellent and as things happened actually. Talking about the rules, I wonder, if those left behind in Malaysia, irrespective of the race and religion, gather together for proper reforms ,and march peacefully, singing Negaraku,and other national songs,(not UMNO versions) and expressing their love and respect for the country and Agong, will the Polis still use teargas and water cannon.
I somehow feel, and worried,if there are more rallies, the police might go for rubber bullets and actually kill a few people; and blame it on the citizens gathering.
I hope and pray wisdom dawns on the politicians in power to advise the Government to listen to the voice of the people.
December 1, 2007 at 12:57 pm
SAT:01.12.07: PM: I’m aware of complaints [THE STAR]
Referring to the above headlines in todays paper. When a country which has achieved 50 years of independence, placing themselves well in the international trade and has achieved political stability and then turn themselves against 2 brothers. Don’t tell me 50 years of independence cannot assist you in handling these chaps. Nonsense. When the previous rallies took place,it states that “KJ broke into police rallies to handover memorandum to oppose Condoleeza Rice”….darn nonsene. These people say I HEAR YOU…absolutely ridiculous…that’s giving a rose to a lady and holding a knife with your other hand at the back…they threaten with ISA and then mention I HEAR YOU. “saya pantang dicabar”, state leader who condemns people challenging him? there is no logic in that statement.
Thereafter, the Indian head in this country wit absolute unashamed manner claims that MIC will win the election handsomely when the Indian press was asking him to comment on the rally. Karunanidhi’s concern regarding this situation is for the whole Indian diaspora. Nazri cannot be telling him to lay off..where are your mannerz gentleman? U call the Hindraf “crooks” and u call Tamil Nadu CM a crook too. It’s no longer an internal affair, its an era of globalisation, where whatever happens in Cook Islands is our concern too. Yes there are people who are concerned more about their own race rather than the others..but are they racists? but in this corner of S.E. Asia, it’s the whole govt who are racists and racism is their way of ruling this nation…boasting with twin towers..kl tower..crap transportation system..people in the US are paying close to USD 5000 just to learn how to eat the rite way..and munkeys like you can’t even utter a proper word of English in Al Jazeera.
Perhaps, it’s time for the world to acknowledge that the basic human rights are being tremendously violated in this place. Some may say, street demos are not our culture and could be solved…keep mentioning Indians will get 3% equity by 2020..goodness sake…i wonder when ur sittin and taking a crap..do u actually hv the guts to face yourself in the mirror…ppl from all walks of life came for the rally…professionals….taxi drivers…lorry drivers..students….bank officers…a pilot…a MNC scholar…this is bcoz the Indianz have been pushed to the wall..so what other option that these people have other than retaliating on just their needs…they do not demand for special rights to be just taken away..they respect it…but don give special rights and take away the Indian rights as well…
Guys..I’m new to this scene..kindly feedback on this as I im really passionate about my nation… “MALAYSIA BOLEH” or rather “MALAYSIAKU BOLEH”
December 14, 2007 at 4:31 am
It wud have been a peaceful rally if the hindraf supporters were let to pass the memorandom…but the umno led BN government am sure must have freaked out for obvious reasons and ordered the police to practice extreme brutality…the rest; all of us in the right state of mind know it what happened.
Perhaps if more indians were looking as smart n handsome as shah rukh khan n as pretty as kajol/preity or rani…mrs najib wud have personally put a better word unto husband Najib…
We are normal people asking for equal rights, what is so wrong abt it. Thank god for some sober ppl like Malik,Harris and many rational ppl of all ethnic groups who see thinks way beyond.
I heard the lawyers were held under ISA…i expected that anyway!!! Honestly I was very sad n dissapointed. Tell me who on earth will fight on the expense of risking their life and freedom when being lawyers they can make money, drive bmw’s, live in big house etc etc??? why worry abt some ppl living in squatter or estates…why be the voice to the minorities??? To me they are brave hearts…and i can’t imagine how they are being treated in captive…the mental torture they have to go through…i really pray that somehow they get out from the clutches of the arrogant police and the so call peace keeping ministers and that too healthy & sane!!!
In general the ppl of malaysia are nice to one another, it is the government which is imposing n separating the rakyat by uttering words of hatred…agree???
raji lamari,
I agree completely with you, especially with what you said in your closing sentence.
Let me repeat what 20 Cent said in his comment.
Stick together, push forward. The tide will change
February 13, 2008 at 10:27 pm
I think I suggested this to Tony Pua and I also wish to suggest to you. It may be appropriate for People’s Parliament to look at. Few years ago when a journalist questioned Liong Sik the Ex MCA president on his son’s abnormal wealth at the age of 27 he mentioned that his son was very smart. Lately Mr.LKS stated that the son of Kheng Yaik amassed wealth of 1.2billion. And I wonder how the hell this amount money is possible if not through corrupt practice.
So, I think we the citizens have to be the watchmen checking on their wealth every now and then. We could think about rewarding any individual who could provide leads or evidence that could expose all corruptions and unethical practice of Ministers, MPs, leaders and officers of government institution. If this is possible I am even willing to contribute toward the fund. Moreover after reading Jayanthi’s testimony today I have lost the little faith I had in ACA.
February 21, 2008 at 10:16 pm
[...] that is going to happen on 8th March 2008. So far, they have proved that they mean business by taking their demands to the streets, boycotting the Thaipusam celebration at Batu Caves, and lately have been very brave to even heckle [...]