Kelana Jaya: Yes, the man matters
February 28, 2008
Helen Ang
_____________________________
It looks like Kelana Jaya will soon be blessed with a Datuk promoted way beyond his level of competence. But let’s just be realistic. If the seat has his name on it, it’s because the Opposition shot itself in the foot, just like when Lee Hwa Beng was returned uncontested in Subang Jaya last term as state assemblyman.
For conscientious objectors, your Hobson’s choice is:
A. Vote PKR newcomer
B. Or the flyweight independent
C. Or spoil your vote
At this juncture, I’d like to take all of you participating in People’s Parliament back to April 14, 2007, when this initiative was launched and more importantly, WHY it was launched … Option D.
Haris wrote: “This blog, then, is about civil society reclaiming its power to determine who are the lawmakers in Parliament today who are worthy of the trust reposed in them by the people and if, sadly, we discover there are none presently, to make an informed decision of who we will next install in the people’s parliament.”
In the case of Loh Gwo-Burne, there is no “informed decision”. Kelana Jayans are being called upon to install in Parliament a man they know nothing about, other than that he shot a video of ‘Looks like me, sounds like me’.
And why did he shoot the clip? In Gwo-Burne’s own words, he was “bored and fed up” waiting while Lingam attended to other matters. He had wanted to take a photo of a vase (!) but had not realised that the camera was on video mode. He then chose to let it run for the fun of it.
On how it had become public, Gwo-Burne said he initially thought lawyer Manjit Singh was responsible as he had burned a copy for him “but then I found out that he was dead so I have no idea”.
Is throwing civil society’s support behind Gwo-Burne reclaiming the “power to determine who the lawmakers in Parliament” are? No, Loh is only the contentious choice of the PKR elections committee.
Are you going to argue that under duress, as we are now, we do not have the luxury of cherry-picking candidates? On the contrary, I think that it is when we are under pressure that we most ought not to sacrifice our principles to expediency.
Haris was once asked to name one good man in politics. He picked PKR’s Dr Syed Husin Ali. If Dr Husin stood, I’m sure we’d all have no qualms backing him.
For the record, and I’ve said this before in Malaysiakini, the PAS state assemblymen in Kelantan have got integrity. They didn’t jump ship unlike their PBS counterparts in Sabah under similar circumstances, and Nik Aziz’s government surprisingly held, even though its majority was razor thin.
The idea of ‘Get an Mp’ is to have the candidate declare and clarify his stand. What do we know of Gwo-Burne’s stand?
Here’s what Hilman commented in Farida’s post: “I went to PKR ceramah in SS5D the other night featuring Nik Nazmi and Gwo-Burne. … This guy has a really big problem with his Bahasa Malaysia. … When I had the chance to speak to him in person, I asked him, what are your manifestos? And he replied that he wants to do something about the judiciary and also on the inflation.”
Sounds to me like a Miss World aspirant replying “I want to do something about global warming, and oh yes, world peace.”
As to Hilman’s other observation, if Gwo-Burne really has “a big problem with his Bahasa Malaysia”, then he cannot function in Parliament. It’s as simple as that. Proceedings in the House are conducted wholly in Malay.
Am I guilty about making assumptions on Gwo-Burne? You bet! Isn’t that the very bone of contention here?
People’s Parliament was born because in April 2007 Haris had thought that “The average voter casts his vote at the general election without really knowing much about his candidate of choice.” ‘Get an MP’ is a project to know the candidate or the candidate making himself known to us.
PKR foisting a newcomer on Kelana Jaya 2 weeks before voting day is against the spirit of our ‘Get an MP’ project.
A track record should count for something. Dr Kumar Devaraj who’s challenging Samy Vellu in Sg Siput said in his interview with me: “I’m here every week. We have helped so many thousands of cases in my service centre. We’ve helped about 20 different community funds. We’ve got involved in (the coalition against) the privatisation of hospitals, the privatisation of water. We have done what we can do.
“We’ve been around here nine years. And without the ‘peruntukan’ (budget), without funds, we’ve done so much.”
What has Gwo-Burne done in Kelana Jaya, you tell me. He’s been living in Shanghai.
Now please, don’t let anyone dare say I’m a fan of Lee Hwa Beng. In fact, my next post will checklist Lee against the desired qualities and expectations rightly required of an MP and I can assure you, he’ll be found sorely wanting.
But also don’t let anyone’s aversion to BN and Lee be a deterrent to looking at the scenario with the clarity, and gravity, it deserves. We’re talking about Parliament which is the highest legislative body in the land. So no, I’m afraid marking ‘X’ against a tree stump will not do if it’s merely to spite BN.
Would you vote for an untested candidate? Where I live – Parliament: Bukit Bendera, Penang – DAP’s first-timer Liew Chin Tong is contesting Gerakan strongman Chia Kwang Chye. I’d be willing to give Liew a try because he’s a party man and I do know a little bit about him (but this point is moot as I’m registered to vote in PJ).
Is Gwo-Burne a party man? Perhaps you should evaluate his contribution to PKR before we start banking on what he can do for the electorate.
Or will you vote on the basis of party alone? Jeffrey Kitingan is now a PKR vice-president. Would you vote for him just because he’s not BN and you’re anti-BN? I most certainly would not!
I’m not discouraging anyone from casting a protest vote against the BN. By all means, go ahead and support Opposition. I myself have never ever voted BN.
But what I see in People’s Parliament on this issue is folks so intent on one battle (or rather a lost cause) that they lose sight of the war. That war is for good governance of our country. We are civil society shoring the foundations and carving the space to nudge this along.
If you want to do something useful, educate your children and induct them into political processes. My generation was let down by our elders who failed to impress upon us the import of Ops Lalang 1987.
Ultimately, our civil society goals are long-term and we’re in it for the long haul, not merely the one hour’s duty to be carried out at the polling station on March 8.
February 28, 2008 at 10:57 am
Now,this echoes my thoughts exactly.
And on the point of informed decision, that’s where I find PKR’s actions in this particular matter, questionable.
Many say, give the newcomer a chance.
Fair enough. I say, help us to help you give the newcomer a chance.
They had time and were engaged to let us know about their candidates so that we can make informed decision.
And taking it from Sharing’s point in earlier posts, I mailed PKR asking for more details on Loh and also mentioned to them that we are discussing this in TPP. Am yet to receive any response. Understandable, perhaps, because the party machinery may be extremely busy, we can wait, but time is running short.
And to drive a point, speaking out on some matters that somehow puts the opposition in a spot does not constitute to being a saboteur and losing sight of the objective. Contrary to that, its only right to give the same treatment to any MP or party or candidate for that matter.
And when the opposition pulls out stunts, actions that on any given day if it was pulled out by BN would cause a lot of us to cry foul, there are no reasons for not pointing it out. Speaking about main objectives of denying the 2/3 and such should not render us blind and compromise our principles.
When we demand transparency from one side, isn’t it only fair we demand the same from the other side?
February 28, 2008 at 11:28 am
Dear Helen,
This process will be continuous and over time, with awareness, people with the same ideals would band together and create a strong force the lawmakers today have to reckon with.
But until then, whether we have a viable opposition or not very much depends on how we consciously exercise our vote for each election to support them. The opposition today is a weak lot when compared against BN. It is not that BN is heaven’s gift but how do we rejuvenate a political landscape long defined by the very people we despite who inadvertibly receive our “blessings” regardless of what they did in each election?
We can’t expect PKR to quickly change in 1 election. Granted, they have been around since the late 90s but they are still young, disorganised and lacking in a single vision and ideology except for reformasi. Now that their illustrious leader is out, I am quite sure by the 13th general election, they will present themselves as a more credible entity than before.
Until then, do anyone here expect PKR to have unlimited resources and manpower at hand?
Granted Mr Loh Gwo-Burne looks young, inexperience and perhaps, bored. But at least he volunteered himself to contest. He wants to bring about changes because he thought his new found celebrity status will afford him some brand recognition.
But in looking at the bigger picture, we as voters must create competition where BN would be forced to recognise who the real masters are. If we, out of unhappiness with PKR silly choice, vote for BN now, the denial of 2/3 majority will never happen. BN will consolidate its power, changes the Constitution and who knows, someday there will no longer be any elections.
Who and what I am voting for is a matter of political convenience. I may not agree with all the ideologies of PAS, PKR and DAP but I want to see real competition, not token victories in some opposition strongholds (because they place the best they have there) that are meant to please dissatisfied and presently anti-establishment (yes fence sitters, I am one of you) voters.
Once a vibrant competition exists, all political parties will recognise they have to offer their best in each and every seat for us voters to select. It is high time we, from the demand side, punish the monopolistic supplier i.e. BN. I want to cherry pick and choose the best too but in the short term, I will settle with what the Opposition has to offer.
Remember, the made-in-[add country name] was created by Britain to differentiate inferior German products from theirs after WW1. But with time, determination and attention to quality, the made-in-Germany products would later bear the brand recognition as trustworthy and good quality products. But would any British, at the point of forcing Germany to label their products as made-in-Germany, not see these products as inferior and bad? Of course because Germany lost the war and are struggling to rebuilt itself.
I for one will root for any Barisan Rakyat parties. Why in the world do People’s Parliament bother to launch a People’s Declaration of which PKR is a declared supporter if we ended up choosing not to support them because PKR pick Loh Gwo-Burne as a candidate?
We know how things work in our present political climate. The fact of the matter is none of the BN candidates possess the ability to voice their conscience unless it toes with the wishes of the Coalition Whip and his deputy.
If we want to break this stupid whip concept, it is high time we give these BN coalition a few powerful political opponents which force the whole concept of survival into their plates.
February 28, 2008 at 11:29 am
Aiyoh, I’ll just cut and paste my letter to Malaysiakini on Feb 27.
“I refer to the Malaysiakini report “All eyes on PKR’s young guns”.
I fully agree with the writer no one catches the eye more than video maker Loh Gwo Burne. What a shot at stardom in so short a time! The burne-ing question is: what has he done to deserve this great opportunity to be a Member of Parliament?
Whilst I most definitely share the overwhelming desire of those who wish to deny the Barisan Nasional a two-thirds majority and perhaps greater damage, it’s a mockery of the election process if anyone will do as a candidate.
Kelana Jayans need to hear from Anwar Ibrahim/PKR why Loh will make a good Member of Parliament because there seems to be a growing disenchantment in that constituency.
He has no political or public service record to speak of and his claim to immediate fame thus far is that he had accompanied his rich father to lawyer VJ Lingam’s house and, fortuitously for Malaysians, was so bored to death he decided to shoot the now infamous ‘correct correct correct’ video. Of course Loh also knows how to burn(e) the recorded video to disc. But many 10-year olds could do that too. Unless there are more achievements that we do not know of, many will regard Loh’s nomination as payback for his family’s contribution in the Lingam tape expose. This cannot be a compelling reason to give someone the yang berhormat status. Thus Kelana Jaya voters are very likely to reject him.
Anwar Ibrahim is a skilled politician or so we’re told. Loh, by all accounts is a fine young man. But does he have winnable credentials, especially when faced with a highly formidable Lee Hwa Beng from the BN? Lee can boast a strong record having served the Subang Jaya state constituency for 3 terms. Could it be that PKR thinks Lee is just too much for any opposition candidate and they may just as well let Loh Gwo Burne contest, an ideal quid pro quo solution. This will not go down well for PKR, however, because people are not stupid and are sick of such cynical deals.
February 28, 2008 at 11:36 am
Harris,
Thanks for FIRMING the importancy and long-term policy of PP
and so FIRMING PP will see the People’s Declaration be INSISTED in the Political Sea!
To call upon the Hearts & Souls of ALL Malaysians
BE RATIONAL with FULL picture then Strategies and Ways to sail THROUGH this Stormy sea
When Waves can be done by Parties and People without Hearts & Souls!
The Peace of Mind can only come with the JOINT effects and the RATIONAL HEART & SOUL OF EVERY MALAYSIAN!
FOR THE COMMON GOAL OF HUMAN RIGHTS
IN A TRANSPARENT, ACCOUNTABLE, MONITORABLE GOVERNMENT!
REMINDING EVERY HEARTY MALAYSIAN IT IS A LONG BATTLE
TO REBUILD A FAIR COUNTRY AFTER HAVING ALL THE WORMS AND LOOPHOLES OF THE BN MANIPULATIONS!
Bersih has to clear the way of EC!
PP to lead the way into EC and the repair and rebuild of a Fair Community if and only if at least 1/2 of the Parliament seats are in ONE SOUL
from Parties and Representative with Heart & Soul!
THIS HAS TO BE PRAYED IN OUR HEART TO GIVE HOPE FOR THE FUTURE TO COME!
February 28, 2008 at 11:51 am
While I have objections to the obvious lack of a track record in the candidate of PKR, I have even more objections to the track record of the BN candidate. On many occasions it is not what he has done. It is what he has NOT done that he should as a representative of all Malaysians!
So, Hobson’s choice or not, my bet is on PKR.
February 28, 2008 at 11:54 am
At this juncture, the people of Kelana Jaya have two choices…
1. Vote into parliament someone who will toe the UMNO line and vote for whatever the power grabbers want, or
2. Vote for someone who is more than likely to go along the direction indicated the leaders of whatever group stands opposed to UMNO/BN.
Of course an MP of calibre can do more for us, but not if he is constrained by the party whip. Voting for ANY BN candidate does not make sense under any circumstances.
For the 12th GE, we should not deviate from the goal of breaking the 2/3 majority or even capturing a simple majority. Having restored so balance to the power in parliament, we can then work on improving the calibre of our representatives.
February 28, 2008 at 12:11 pm
What Paul Warren said in the earlier post is what I would like to say so I am reproducing his comments here. Thanks, Paul.
” Paul Warren says
February 28, 2008 at 9:05 am
Some of you here seem to think Loh, or for that matter any other Barisan Rakyat candidate, has to prove his credentials to warrant your vote and support. Some even suggest that because Loh fails on that score, you will not support him. In otherwards your support and/or vote goes to the BN candidate whether you choose to vote or not.
Can you tell me then, how come it seems alright to you that the BN candidate has basically sold his conscience in order to be a BN candidate? He supports the ISA. He supports body snatching. He supports the ******* up of the judiciary. He suppports the corruption and the squandering of taxpayer’s money. He supports the Port Klang Free Trade Zone squandering of a few billion ringgit. He supports his fellow MPs who think it funny that their mothers, sisters, daughters and grand-mothers bocor on a monthly basis over which I suppose they are supposed to be embarrassed about. He supports the monkey like behaviour of his colleagues in parliament. He supports Zakaria Deros’ palace. He supports the close one eye MP? Until now, he does not think that something is wrong with Eusoff Chin’s New Zealand Holiday. You think he dares stand up there and say that Eusoff Chin betrayed the trust placed on him?
Despite all that it seems like it is more important that Loh has to first prove his credentials before he should deserve your votes.
I should say, that after having said all the above of the BN candidate and what he represents, put up a real donkey and that animal will get my vote everytime!”
February 28, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Helen, you left out what Hillman said further and I quote him here:
“…And he replied that he wants to do something about the judiciary and also on the inflation.
That cleared some of my worries. Yes, he lack charisma, but he certainly has a voice. That is the voice that we want to be representing us in the Parliament in the later days.
At the very least, he had the bravery to expose the Lingam Video. We just don’t want someone with a big charismatic voice that is scared to tell the truth. what we need is a brave voice, no matter how less charismatic one is. ”
I think that counts for something too where Hillman’s views are concerned.
February 28, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Helen,
Thanks for re-capturing the attentions of all back to Ground of “Get an MP”!
——–
Nanda,
Thanks for the Resonance and your steps to ask PKR for details!
Any chance of getting same from Billi?
Or if Billi is visiting this site, please send it yours!!
——————
myop101
I believe in most of the Posts, NO one doubted in Knocking out of BN! But, shouldn’t we be rational when we come to the choice of LOH GB & Billi Lim to go?
PP is to set a system for every hearty People as well as Party to work together!
Not only Slogan but practical system!
Anyone endorsing People’s declaration should also be binded to provide a full picture of their Candidates for Voters to choose！
A fair ground for everyone!
But also the Right Strategy to come!
We are trying to select ONE to be the best (could be out of the worst) for Voters to slash BN!
Stage 1 – KNOCK BN OUT – ALL AGREED & CONFIRMED!
Stage 2 – TO CHOOSE either LOH GB or Billi
Stage 3 – TO PROMOTE the one to EVERY ONE with some points to support to guide People with analytical mind and Strategy to avoid dispersing votes so that LHB may have a chance!
We are promoting RATIONAL SMART VOTERS in long run!!
February 28, 2008 at 12:23 pm
myop101,
Your style and wisdom reminds me of shar101.
You remember the thread ‘Toni Kasim for PJ Selatan (Feb 11)? There was much discourse then on her suitability. Principles matter. Fast forward to Feb 28 and the principles went out the window, after the launch of The People’s Declaration!
I felt the banter on Toni does not really help and so I asked:
“Are these philosophical questions really necessary in this hour of need to seek an end to the ills that beset this country?…..I like these philosophical discussions but, frankly, push has come to shove. I will thus not fear taking my chances with someone like Toni if she is willing to run in PJS against the BN because she knows the force that has given her the opportunity to serve could also take it away if she does not work hard for the people.”
There is a difference. I felt Toni has earned her oats to some degree at least. Not in Loh’s case.
The vast majority of voters do not read this blog and discern the finer points. It’s gut feel for many and when they listen to him, I’m afraid they will be disappointed. Loh is not ready, however willing he may be in 2008. PKR is not helping this young man by an expedient move to settle an obligation owed to his dad.
February 28, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Those who have not already done so should read
Some quotes from your MPs – flip flops and contradictions
by Usman Bawang at
http://www.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/3507/84/
“There is no point in voting good BN candidates (if there is such a thing). You will see that there are good BN MPs/reps in UMNO/MCA/MIC etc. Politicians with a bit of spine and some principles. But what’s the point of voting them when they are overpowered by the hoolligans within their parties?”
February 28, 2008 at 12:52 pm
“Good people join BN to change and improve the system, from within. They stand up for the people and are shot down by the party and system. Why waste your votes on them then if they are powerless?”
====================
I picked up the above quote from Malaysia Today website.
I won’t elaborate on it.
Now we have Loh and Lee. Ok, Loh BM is weak but can he still put across his views in broken BM? Can he read out his points from prepared text? Can he improve on his BN proficiency? My answer is Yes. Necessity is the mother of invention. He will make it. Just give him a chance.
A small voice thought. But a weak Opposition voice is still better than a good BN Datuk who does not have the gall to speak up for my rights. One is beholden to UMNO and who is cheerfully prepared to be a second class citizen.
February 28, 2008 at 1:22 pm
In a free and fair election, with proper debate on policies as in the USA, we have a better opportunity to assess a candidate.
In Bolehland, election date is a strategy to confuse the opposition. I support the need for the “selection process” by PKR. We have only 9 days left, are we going to split hair now! There are already many monkeys from the BN bench in Parliament, I would even vote for a “monkey” if the monkey knows how to put up his hand to support an Opposition motion in Parliament.
Of course we need more Karpal Singhs, Kit Siangs, Anwars, Guan Engs, Theresa Koks and Po Kuans. But what can they do if the BN walks out and create a “no-quorum” situation. These fire-brand MPs cannot speak as there is no quorum. We now need quantity, not just quality. Loh is brave enough to stand and I believe his dad has enough money to bankroll his campaign.
My 2 sens worth of comments, let us close ranks and vote opposition – any opposition.
February 28, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Vote PKR, do not vote for BN or independent.
February 28, 2008 at 2:36 pm
farida & Paul,
I believe both of you are trying to say even a “real donkey” is worth voting than LHB! Me Too!!
But, will both of you agree to Stage 2 & Stage 3 in my post?
———-
To all visiting, Birdseye, bayi, SV, Mosesfoo, KevinP, Terrie, carboncopy, yh, oA, hilman, goldenscreen, kerishnamuddiniti, Rushdi, Kenny, Jaya, etc… in order to allow PP to focus on what to do next, shall we poll if to take the 3 stages above setting 2/3 be the last date for Stage 2 and 3/3 to start stage 3?
Stage 2 – please post reasons, say 100words, for reference?
February 28, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Helen, thanks for the navigation warning. Appreciate that.
The best thing which I could think of at this moment is that this Loh win, and give up his seat to Anwar…
That would be the best thing to happen…
February 28, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Hi Sharing,
The e-group for kelana jaya are making decisions and preparing material on the ground for distribution. So, let’s see whether the e-group and cyberspace concur in their choice.
February 28, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Dear birdeye,
You said:
The vast majority of voters do not read this blog and discern the finer points. It’s gut feel for many and when they listen to him, I’m afraid they will be disappointed. Loh is not ready, however willing he may be in 2008. PKR is not helping this young man by an expedient move to settle an obligation owed to his dad.
My reply:
Agreed. Most people in the streets expect something better. Herein lies the effort of not 1 person but the rest of us who are interested in getting the objective met.
To now kill each other even before the election is a big no-no. We can speak and write to those around us and convince them that the ills of the country can only be solved by collective measures. And Loh is only the first step.
If we must, we may need to acknowledge his failings yet divert their attention to something more pressing other than their longkangs. It is their rights to REAL peace, security and prosperity, not a convenient slogan to raise false hopes.
To be honest if you put me on stage, my BM sucks to the degree that you will laugh at me. Is he ready? I too have doubts. But desperate times call for desperate measures. We must first put an opposition member into power, a stick if we must, to ensure that a sense of competition and survival is imbudded into the heads of all BN members. I may loath them at this moment for their mindless kowtow sandiwaras in the parliament but who is to know someday we may need to bring them back in power?
Politics, like the market, requires competition. When the competitors are too distracted by what the other fellow is doing next, he/she wouldn’t have that much time to think on how to screw the customers (or at least screw negligibly since it is not a perfect world afterall).
If Loh turns out to be Anwar’s vehicle to get himself into the Parliament, Why not? Also, if Loh steps down and for a remote possibility Anwar loses the by-election, BN would have wasted little time to clean up the longkangs and implement development measures on Kelana Jaya parliamentary constituency. If Loh steps down and Anwar wins, we have a leader of the shadow government in place. This alone is sufficient to strike fears into the hearts of BN! They may deny his charisma, reject his influence but they cannot dismiss their fears.
But until then, please people. Convince others in addition to yourselves to put an opposition member into parliament. Where I am voting, there are only PAS and PKR and chances of them winning are slimmer. But I will still root for them and been trying to convince the non-Malays there that there is nothing to fear in putting PAS and/or PKR into parliament. Will my little word by mouth succeed? I will only know come March the 8th.
February 28, 2008 at 3:51 pm
voting to deny BN 2/3 does not mean voting without thinking. the sceptic in me would lean towards seeing Loh as dubious rather than unproven. Speculating on PKR’s real intentions is no use. they have to tell us.
I agree with Nanda in that there should be no double standards for the opposition. As much as the opposition is benefiting from the discontentment and disenchantment of Malaysians with BN as a whole, they still need to show us that their leadership is different from BN’s – not the same but just under a different name. Transparency please! The Rakyat deserves it.
it’s things like this (not taking the people’s best interest to heart) that leads to many being disillusioned by the opposition.
i’m all for denying BN 2/3 but i’m just glad i don’t have to vote in Kelana Jaya and be burdened by such a choice!
February 28, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Dear Haris,
Thought I wanna take a break awhile then some eeeeh… wise crackers came up with a ‘divide and lost’ views to steer people like me, who firmly believe in fighting for a new government, to rethink about the opposition.
At this point, there are only two choices: Vote out BN along with all its leaders and all the injustices they brought upon the people and the nation or,
Vote for the opposition and bring about the change that we have been crying out loud.
This is a General Election and not a by-election. This is not about one parliamentary seat, one candidate or ‘Get an MP’.
This GE is about US, the PEOPLE of Malaysia and not the voters of Kelana Jaya. This GE is about OUR future and not the future of Kelana Jaya residents alone.
Don’t be sidetracked with putting Loh or any of the PKR/DAP or opposition candidates under the microscope at this crucial time, forgetting the very purpose we go to the poll.
Ask yourself this Q: Do you want BN to continue to helm the government or do you want change under a new government?
Should Loh wins and fails to deliver later, boot him and his kinds till kingdom come ( also as a warning to his party).
But please, stop being a cry baby here. Think and do something positive in the interest of all Malaysians and not only for one particular area.
The question that begs your answer is “Are you for change or not? Do you want BN or the opposition for change?
P/S Fell into a kubang kerbau, actually dragged by a friend, at a PKR ceramah last night (damn the blackout and the kerbau!). To avoid one, going to a DAP ceramah in the city area tonite.
(To farida, God willing, we will meet).
February 28, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Let’s not argue about Loh until the real donkey comes home.
We each have our own belief. So just do what you feel is right and not think of another as not having the interest of all Malaysians at heart because his or her view differs from yours.
Farida makes the most sense. Let’s see what the Kelana Jaya people have to say because they have the most to gain or lose.
Meanwhile, on a lighter note, Donald Lim, whom many believe could be the next MCA taikoh, was booed and jeered when he compared Malaysia with Burma several times during a debate held at a church in Petaling Jaya yesterday.
Now we know why the BN thinks that Malaysia is doing so well. The compare us to Burma, the only former British colony where time has stood still. My last trip to Myannmar was in the mid 90’s and it really felt like the 70’s.
They also laughed at Donald for trying to pass the microphone several times to another candidate to avoid the questions. So clearly then, speaking ability is not a prerequisite to be an MP.
Donald is toast, I hope.
February 28, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Enough arguing if Loh GB is qualify or not!!! Now is not the time to debate this because we need more Opposition into the Parliament! When Opposition vote a bill, Loh can raise his hand to support even if he could not speak Malay well!
You can’t judge a new comer by his track record. It is as if not giving him a chance.
We have been giving 50 years to BN to screw us. What is 4 years to Loh?
I tell you if you don’t vote Loh, you are as good as let BN win by phantom votes.
Please vote Loh for Rakyat sake!
February 28, 2008 at 9:40 pm
I and my family are are grateful to Gwo Burne and his father for what they have done.There are not even ten Malaysians out of 25million who have the mind and the guts to do so.I am sure it has taken a lot of strength out of them to resolve to do what they have done.
The judiciary is one of the strong pillars of the current fortress of the ruling party.
They faced the whole system,not knowing who are friends or foes.They risked their lives for us by coming forward.They are better heroes than those guys spending people’s money going on space tourism.Really I am insulting them by making this comparison.The people now have a chance to clean up the judiciary and
and any Lingam-like lawyers in the legal fraternity.
We should be honoring and rewarding them.They have more guts than the whole cabinet combined and have done more than any of them to make this country a safe
and assuring place.Perhaps,even without speaking a word he can give similar contributions in Parliament.
We want him in.He can go to his language classes later.We are a Malay family who enjoy a truly ‘Malaysian’ environment
We are a Malay
February 28, 2008 at 11:28 pm
To kaki ayam – your comment did cross my mind too. It would be the topping if Loh wins and surrenders seat for Anwar.
That would be fabulous !
February 29, 2008 at 12:21 am
Yes, candidates are important, but at this juncture, it’s a little too late now that nomination day has passed. The people have to decide soon.
Correct me if I am wrong, but weren’t people of this constituency robbed of their chance to vote for the Opposition the last time around, giving Lee Hwa Beng a freebie win? Why rob them of their chance again, by shooting a candidate prematurely? Isn’t there also an overall objective of denying the BN its 2/3rds majority?
Then why shoot Loh Gwo Burne before he even gets started on his campaign? No matter how he ended up filming the Lingam episode, the fact is that he did. And the people of Malaysia ought to be thankful that he did. Now let’s see if he can talk and deliver.
Given the above, why don’t you all at the People’s Parliament interview Loh Gwo Burne and get his ideas of his plans for the area, and his thoughts on issues? At least give the guy a fighting chance to share his views. In the meantime, does he have a blog at least where people can view his thoughts or even contact him?
While, your at it, then why not interview Billie Lim? He may yet surprise us with something beyond a bad hairdo.
Perhaps you all at the Peoples Parliament can organize a debate between Lee Hwa Beng, Loh Gwo Burne, and Billie Lim?
February 29, 2008 at 9:37 am
Dear Harris,
I havent an opinion about Loh Gwo Burne. To me he is a candidate nominated by the party leaders. The leadership has entrusted him to deliver the manifesto to the people of Kelana Jaya and a vote for him would some way show our commitment to the leadership of the party, the Rakyat’s Declaration and PP which has been fighting to throw out a corrupt regime.
I would understand very much if the opposition to Gwo Burne in to support of the earlier Loh who was the representative. He spoke up for the rights of his opeople, and his consituency. He was taken out and the seat given to Lee Hwa Beng, a yes man to the UMNO led government who has had not even the guts to support the Peoples Declaration as he has not got the nod of his masters. We know him and as such reject him
We shoulkd support Gwo Burne as he is unknown material, who with some polishing might shine much better than the rubbish BN has been giving us. VOTE FOR A CHANGE. VOTE FOR ANY OPPOSITION. VOTE OUT THE CURRENT REGIME>
February 29, 2008 at 10:02 am
I think we should not sway from our original intention and that is to deny the BN their absolute power in parliament. Please remember that even the BN has put nincompoops in parliament, (the Kinabatangan fellow, the one from Jasin, Sri Gading, yours one and only Zam, Nazri…….) and they thrive. I don’t think Loh is stupid even if he can’t speak Malay very well. At the end of the day, it’s the party that’s important. We may not see anything in PKR, but even DAP and PAS has their ups and downs. If you think about it, not one of them can rule this country on their own. Eventually, they have to work together on what is best for the people. With their diverse ideology, one party will act as the check and balance for the other party. What is important is that they are willing to work together to end the tyranny in BN. Then there are those on the outside, Haris, Rocky, RPK and…….. who will help to keep them in check. If they do wrong, we can kick them out in five years’ time. We are the master. If the BN is wrong, we throw them and if the BR is wrong, we will throw them too. Please don’t falther. We have started on something that is right. We must go on. Do not DIVIDE our votes. Choose Loh because he is from PKR. There is support behind him. Anwar is from PKR. Anwar may not be the best, but he has done something right too. Let’s focus on our objective and DENY THE BN THEIR 2/3 MAJORITY IN PARLIAMENT. WE MUST BE UNITED. As the old saying goes, UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED………
February 29, 2008 at 11:11 am
The political scenario in Malaysia exist on a very different terrain altogether. There is no level playing field, as they say it. Any opposition party concedes a major handicap at the word go, to the ruling BN, er I mean UMNO.
Loh’s candidacy is merely a reflection of this scenario. Oppositions have lack of resources of all nature, right to the “experienced grounds man” that the ruling machinery can be seen to churn out!
Why punish PKR or even Loh for that matter? I think even Loh is aware of the ridicule he may face from the very onset! I am sure he must be very “AFRAID” to contest? Did that eventually prevent him from contesting? He availed himself even if he lacked the credentials? Would you?
Who were the Parliamentarians you had voted for who had all the right credentials? For every one of them you can name, whom amongst them had stood up against BN or more specifically UMNO when the crunch came on issues like Islamic State, constitutional changes (read TS Abdul Rashid), etc. etc.
The few braver ones have been silenced unequivocably. Remember Loh Seng Kok?
How many of us are eloquent, in Bahasa Malaysia? Or is it Bahasa Melayu?? Does it matter when we go to the ballot box? You may not say much but you know who and what to vote for.
Is Loh GB eloquent? Ultimately, he won’t be making most of the arguments in Parliament, right? Will he not still be marking an X in favour of the rakyat in Parliament when it comes to voting in parliament
For me, at this juncture of our political scenario and history, the “IDEAL” candidate is one who in spite of his lack of charisma, experience, eloquence and even a personal manifesto WILL stand and work as a “WAKIL RAKYAT”.
As far as I am concerned,the best possible qualified candidate under the auspices of BN WILL ALWAYS REMAIN A WAKIL UMNO, and that, eerily so!
The issue really is not a question of whether it is Loh or not. It is UMNO (forget all the other coalition members, they are expediently WAKIL UMNO)or OPPOSITION. For me, as things are, ANY OPPOSITION.
February 29, 2008 at 11:27 am
.
what a shame that you promote the so call
people’s declaration and yet now you have
the audacity to put him away for good
just because he lacks experience.
experience can be earned with time
but
character of integrity and conscience can
only come naturally from down within the
pure of heart.
if you compare him to the incumbent and yet
not able to see the beauty the br candidate
possesses than the lost is solely yours
oA,
Before you lynch me on these charges, why don’t you examine all of the evidence?
.
February 29, 2008 at 11:39 am
thanks farida, for clarification on my comment in your post.
yes, to a certain extent, i believe that charisma is needed when you want to represent people. You are to become the people’s voice. And the people has the rights to choose how charismatic is the voice that they want.
But if the charismatic voice is hands-tied and could not agree to other point of views other than from their own party, will that be good for the country?
When they are ‘in’ after the GE, it is important for all the MPs to let go partisanship and represent the voice of their constituency.
when we choose someone, we have to ask ourselves. will he/she represent us the people? or will they represent a certain figure/organisation (even involuntarily) ?
you choose.
February 29, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Kelana Jaya voters: Who should you vote for?
To People’s Parliament and Kelana Jaya voters, who feels that Loh Gwo-Burne is not a credible candidate because they do not know enough about him. May I ask, how much time do you have to get to know candidates within such short period of time. I would say that for the Barisan, we know enough. For Loh Gwo-Burne, we should take the interim tand that we know sufficient to give him his chance, that he risked all to come out into the open to testify. After all, Haris said in the SS2 Petaling Jaya (click BACK button to get back to this page) that “if we can put them in, we can take them out.”
I say, give him one chance. Throw him out if he does not perform in the next 4 to 5 years. We do not have the luxury of time to dig into every nooks and corners of a candidate. Even if we are given 4 years, I doubt anyone can find out all about any candidate.
Yes we should know about our Candidates. What do we know about Loh Gwo-Burne? Not much, but he was brave enough enough to come forward and testify in the Royal Commission for the VK Lingam tape. How many Malaysians are prepared to do that? They will be afraid of getting black listed. If he is prepared to risk his future by coming out in the open, this at least we can expect of him. He, I believe could be counted upon to defy the Executive, to not vote for bills and proposals that are against the nation’s interest and against his conscience.
How about the Barisan candidate? Will he go against the Barisan whip? Will he be brave enough to go vote against party lines? You know the answer.
For a more detailed answer, refer to this post where this issue was discussed and where you can find out more about Billi Lim, the other candidate in the 3 corner contest:
Interview with Billi Lim of UNIF
People’s Parliament. I support your idealism, but you are short of time. Haris has said to get the Barisan out. “Barisan Harapan Malaysia” he cried out at the SS2 ceramah. Why make that task of forming that “Barisan Harapan Malaysia” more difficult by making posts like this?
reluctant protest blogger
February 29, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Kelana Jaya voters: Who should you vote for?
To People’s Parliament and Kelana Jaya voters, who feels that Loh Gwo-Burne is not a credible candidate because they do not know enough about him. May I ask, how much time do you have to get to know candidates within such short period of time. I would say that for the Barisan, we know enough. For Loh Gwo-Burne, we should take the interim tand that we know sufficient to give him his chance, that he risked all to come out into the open to testify. After all, Haris said in the SS2 Petaling Jaya (click BACK button to get back to this page) that “if we can put them in, we can take them out.”
I say, give him one chance. Throw him out if he does not perform in the next 4 to 5 years. We do not have the luxury of time to dig into every nooks and corners of a candidate. Even if we are given 4 years, I doubt anyone can find out all about any candidate.
Yes we should know about our Candidates. What do we know about Loh Gwo-Burne? Not much, but he was brave enough enough to come forward and testify in the Royal Commission for the VK Lingam tape. How many Malaysians are prepared to do that? They will be afraid of getting black listed. If he is prepared to risk his future by coming out in the open, this at least we can expect of him. He, I believe could be counted upon to defy the Executive, to not vote for bills and proposals that are against the nation’s interest and against his conscience.
How about the Barisan candidate? Will he go against the Barisan whip? Will he be brave enough to go vote against party lines? You know the answer.
For a more detailed answer, refer to this post where this issue was discussed and where you can find out more about Billi Lim, the other candidate in the 3 corner contest:
Interview with Billi Lim of UNIF
People’s Parliament. I support your idealism, but you are short of time. Haris has said to get the Barisan out. “Barisan Harapan Malaysia” he cried out at the SS2 ceramah: Haris Ibrahim at the SS2 ceramah. Why make that task of forming that “Barisan Harapan Malaysia” more difficult by making posts like this?
reluctant protest blogger
February 29, 2008 at 12:59 pm
If you get me the People’s Declaration, I will try to get Loh Gwo-Burne to sign it. Is that enough for you? Anyway he is contesting under PKR which you yourself said have endorsed the People’s Declaration. Is that not good enough for People’s Parliment for the time being? Kick him out if he doesn’t perform but give him a chance. He risked his future for Malaysia and the Judiciary by appearing before the Royal Commission.
February 29, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Haris and People’s Parliament.
I already have in my hand a copy of the CSI-Parliament pledge for anyone to endorse if willing. If Loh Gwo-Burne endorsed that, will that be enough for People’s Parliament and CSI? If not, what use is that piece of paper?
Blog for positive changes
February 29, 2008 at 1:15 pm
One more thing. I am no lawyer, but I think there is such a thing as circumstantial evidences. Is it fair to assume that Loh Gwo-Burne have better chance of getting rich by staying oversea and concentrating on business than coming back to Malaysia and contest on an “opposition” ticket? What can you get if you become an “opposition” MP? Patronage?
Isn’t this circumstantial evidence that Loh Gwo-Burne has a sacrificial spirit? Why make our hope for a Barisan Harapan Malaysia more difficult?
February 29, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Dear all,
I’m not bringing up all these points so much as to make you rethink about booting BN out – after all this is a forum of the converted, isn’t it? – and hardly one that attracts droves of government supporters.
I’m bringing up all these points for you to rethink whether you want to stoop to the level of your opponent.
Because to insist that a goat, monkey or donkey be fielded against a BN candidate and still considered the better choice is as jingoistic as anything the BN can come up with, and will only render Parliament a Human Zoo by augmenting the present ‘Situation Vacant’ herd.
Libra,
Parliament is not a language school for one to attend and improve one’s facility in Malay. When we elect a party’s nominee to sit in the august House and be addressed a ‘Yang Berhormat’, he should already possess the prerequisite qualifications, just like any other skilled applicant for any other skilled job, and especially a national job that impacts the lives of many others.
As to your question: “Can he read out his points from prepared text?” ––
I’m afraid the answer is ‘No’. He is in the chamber to follow, take part in the proceedings and to debate the processes of law. These proceedings are not televised live, so his ‘talian hayat’ cannot prompt him in real-time as to whether he should ‘angkat tangan’ in aye or nay.
To Michael Sun who says: “I believe his dad has enough money to bankroll his campaign.” –– Going by your rationale and the general theory of the BN-bashers who say All the BN’s Men cannot be relied on to act independently, can I (following this theory) ask if that wouldn’t leave Gwo-Burne beholden to Daddy and thus indebted to furthering Daddy’s interests?
Your suggestion does not inspire a lot of confidence in me that Junior is much his own man.
Kaki Ayam,
You wrote: “The best thing which I could think of at this moment is that this Loh win, and give up his seat to Anwar…” ––
There is such a thing as ‘fair representation’ when you are attempting to sell some product. The description of the ‘goods’ being promoted to Kelana Jaya voters is the Gwo-Burne brand.
Imagine a buyer finding out two months later the content does not match the bill of sale – wouldn’t the transaction have been duplicitious? If PKR is selling Anwar in the guise of Gwo-Burne (presuming this false packaging doesn’t breach any election laws to begin with), then the party should be upfront about this strategy. Has it?
In fact, such a conspiracy theory makes me even more suspicious as to whether PKR can be trusted to deal honestly. And if PKR is not from the outset accountable to the people in its seat-grabbing quest, can you, the people, trust that party to be accountable later?
But what is of concern to me is whether the uninitiated to this forum will allow themselves to trust the People’s Parliament to deal honestly.
After all, aren’t we prepared to carry out a hatchet job on Lee Hwa Beng while at the same time conveniently close one eye to PKR’s lack of accountability and the candidate’s lack of track record and not to mention physical presence, i.e. whether he intends to return to Shanghai or remain here?
February 29, 2008 at 7:48 pm
to all supporters of Barisan Rakyat. our focus is to vote in BR whether to deny two thirds or with God’s blessing, rule the country.let us not be stupid.we now have BR leader in DS Anwar & many well-wishers all over the country.don’t u think DS Anwar has no plans if in case BR wins BIG.never mind those who sabotage BR in the last minute.DSA can handle it.let us once again focus our energy in helping Barisan Rakyat & nothing else for heavens sake.election time is too precious to be wasted.make it happen, make BR win and we will definitely have a very long queue full of cabinet potentials to volunteer their services.then only talk about who is good or who is bad.we have given somebody 50 years already and what now? well…aren’t we still complaining? Please wise up my fellow Barisan Rakyat supporters.
February 29, 2008 at 9:49 pm
The Electric New Paper :
Man who taped alleged VK Lingam video clip joins politics after he gets SMS asking:
What will you do with your popularity?
HIS recording of a man allegedly brokering judicial apppointments with a top judge over the phone shook Malaysians.
By Susan Tam in Kuala Lumpur
28 February 2008
HIS recording of a man allegedly brokering judicial apppointments with a top judge over the phone shook Malaysians.
The clips were made public by former Deputy Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim in September last year.
That incident thrust Mr Loh Gwo-Burne, 34, into the limelight and spurred him to stand for elections.
Mr Gwo-Burne, who graduated from Hull University in England, said he was just an ordinary bloke who became ’slightly famous’ after the Lingam case.
‘Before that, I was a nobody. Being involved in politics (contesting as an MP) all started with one SMS,’ said the chemicals market consultant with alaugh.
A text message from a local Chinese daily reporter jolted the Parti Keadilan Rakyat (PKR) candidate into pursuing a political career.
‘The reporter asked me, since I was popular now, what I was going to do about it (my new-found popularity) and how it was going to affect my life’, he said.
Mr Gwo-Burne will stand against the ruling coalition Barisan Nasional’s Lee Hwa Beng in the Kelana Jaya parliamentary constituency in Selangor.
Mr Gwo-Burne and his businessman dad, Mr Loh Mui Fah, were the key characters in the case of alleged judicial fixing by Malaysian lawyer VK Lingam.
The two men had sought legal advice from Mr Lingam and found themselves in the limelight.
Mr Gwo-Burne claimed he became bored during the visit and played around with his handphone.
That was how he accidentally recorded a telephone conversation allegedly involving Mr Lingam brokering judicial appointments.
The identity of the other person involved has yet to be ascertained.
The clip created a stir after it was made public and led to a Royal Commission investigation into the alleged judicial fixing.
Mr Lingam has denied his involvement in the case.
The burly and jovial Mr Gwo-Burne said he realised that he and his dad had made an impact on Malaysia’s social and political scene.
‘Wherever we went, people came up to take photos with us or to shake our hands, for what we have done, to come out public in the Lingam case.’
It does mean that something right was done, he added.
Support from his father and two brothers, Mr Loh Gwo-Tynde, 32, and Mr Loh Gwo-Fynne, 29, strengthened his decision to stand.
‘Win or lose, it does not matter.
‘At least I know I am not alone in this,’ said Mr Gwo-Burne, who is single.
He is based in Shanghai, but travels regularly to Malaysia and said he would be able to divide his time between work and politics if elected.
When asked if he would give up his job for politics, Mr Gwo-Burne said he would decide when ‘I cross that bridge’.
Mr Gwo-Burne does not seem fazed by the hype of elections or by his opponent’s experience and long political track record.
He believed his ‘clean’ track record will make it tough for his rivals to venture into any character-smearing campaign.
He does not own a credit card or a car and believes he is free of debts and parking summons.
More importantly, what would a young and aspiring politician want to change if given chance to run the government?
Must you ask? said Mr Gwo-Burne.
The judicial system, of course.
February 29, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Helen oh Helen… you concern whether all of us will still trust People’s Parliament for supporting this “might be” corrupted arrangement in this Loh case with PKR. I tell you, we will stand by People’s Parliament 110% to use this “dirty trick”, if you may call it, because WE UNDERSTAND the situation demand it so. White Lie is fine. We have to use the exception.
At this moment we DO NOT KNOW what actually happening. It is better we don’t jump into any conclusion. You see, when 1st part of Video Clip appeared, nobody know there is 2nd part immediately. It is a strategic to force the matter moving forward. Anwar was one of the UMNO, he knew the best way to treat UMNO. Did he mentioned there will be 3rd part?
Secondly, you worry BN/MCA will nail Loh on his qualification and language. I tell you, these BN/MCA have MORE problem you can nail them! Loh is considered a Saint at this moment because he stand up for justice and he has gut!
So I hope you don’t have to worry so much. When time come, you will know the truth. You just need to have faith in Loh and PKR. They are part of Barisan Rakyat. They adopt People’s Declaration, right?
March 1, 2008 at 3:36 am
farida,
Thanks advice!
March 2, 2008 at 1:51 am
I will be voting in Subang Jaya. This time around you can be assured my votes will go to PKR – Loh Gwo Burne and DAP – Hannah Yeoh. Although it was commented that Gwo Burne does not speak as eloquently but we need to remember he alone has contributed considerably in exposing the judiciary ills in the country and in so doing has aroused the conciousness of all Malaysians. My vote for him is we all owe him one and to reward him for his very brave act
March 2, 2008 at 7:45 pm
So many seems to be so disappointed in PKR for fielding Loh Guo Burne as a candidate for Kelana Jaya. We should commend Loh for his bravery in coming forward with the video and exposing the judiciary. Standing as a candidate for PKR further exposing himself. He is from a rich family, has global business interests. He need not stay on in Malaysia and fight for our rights. Unfortunately I am not in Kelana Jaya (but nextdoor) otherwise I will surely vote for him. Better him than any BN candidate. All BN candidates be it UMNO, MCA or MIC are in it only to enrich themselves