In 1983, I worked as a sales representative with Malaysian Tobacco Company (MTC), the distributor of cigarettes like B & H, Kent and Lucky Strike.

MTC posted me to Kuala Kangsar, Lenggong and Grik.

My job was to accompany the local distributor’s salesmen in their van to the various retail outlets in town and the outskirts to help promote certain brands to targeted markets.

I recall in one Chinese village, near Padang Rengas, watching the young primary school going children, boys and girls, playing hopscotch together.

Watching these kids from a distance, you could only tell the boys from the girls by the length of their hair.

Boys were usually with GI-cropped hair.

The young girls would have their hair cut to just below their ears but not quite reaching their shoulders.

Attire-wise, you could not tell them apart.

They were all in shorts and singlets.

Then in Sauk ( where the famous Al- Maunah stand-off with our security forces took place ), I recall watching young children in what appeared to be a religious school lining up after the recess.

Girls, attired in baju kurung and tudung, segregated from the boys, in baju melayu.

What’ the point of all this?

Well, Malaysiakini reports that one Munirah Bahari of the National Islamic Students Association of Malaysia has some pretty strange notions about how the present school attire for school kids may be root cause of some of the social ills that a prevalent today.

I quote her :

“The white blouse is too transparent for girls and it becomes a source of attraction…It becomes a distraction to men, who are drawn to it, whether or not they like looking at it,”

Malaysiakini reports that Munirah said that “covering up” according to Islamic precepts was important to fend off social ills including “rape, sexual harassment and even premarital sex which involve schoolgirls in their teens.”

Quoting Munirah again :

“All this leads to babies born out of wedlock and to an extent, even prostitution…Decent clothes which are not revealing can prevent and protect women from any untoward situations,”

Munirah also thinks that sometimes these young students take advantage of the white blouse to entice men.

Said Munirah :

“This is the source of the problem, where we can see that schoolgirls themselves are capable of using this to attract men to them…This could see them getting molested, having pre-marital sex and all sorts of things.”

Marina Mahathir, in her blog today, suggests that this report is proof that our educational system is producing intellectual midgets.

Marina is so, so right!

Munirah may want to reflect back to a sad day in 2000 when computer engineer Noor Suzaily Mokhtar was raped, sodomised and then murdered by the driver of the bus on which she was travelling.

Read this Malaysiakini report of 2000.

I quote a statement from Sisters in Islam in that report.

“Noor Suzaily’s rape also belie the claim made by some political leaders that women are raped and molested because of the way they dress. In spite of her modest dressing, Noor Suzaily was still raped and sodomised,”

According to this Malaysiakini report, police believe Noor Suzaily was raped twice before her attacker used her tudung to tie her hands and sodomise her, and when she struggled, he untied her hands and used her scarf to strangle her.

Munirah may also want to check and verify the following.

Do most reported cases of incest involve Malay-Muslims?

Do most reported cases of grandfathers, fathers and brothers raping grand-daughters, daughters or sisters involve Malay-Muslim males?

If so, why is that there are not many reports of girls who grow up in villages playing hopscotch in shorts and singlets being raped by their grandfathers, fathers, or brothers?

Because non-Muslim families cover up these horrible incidences?

Maybe.

Or maybe they are simply fewer in number, if indeed any, than incidences involving Malay-Muslim men.

If so, tends to make me think of the saying, ‘ye judge the tree by its fruit’.

57 Responses to “Take that blouse off! It’s making me hot!”

  1. noyawns Says:

    I may be stirring the hornets nest here: but here goes some ideas (not necessarily true!)
    1.I don’t know the incidence of non-Muslim/Malay cases of incest or rape but would like to suggest that when a community is under economic pressure and has chosen to deal with it by having fewer children, responsibility or attention for fewer children is easier to keep up to ensure the safety or these children? Kind of Quality time over Quantity of kids?

    2. I think the focus of Malaysians of Chinese origins is on how to progress in education and family economics – we don’t hear any politician having to forever talk about being holy and avoiding the sin of Sex – of course, SL Chua did get caught – but it’s really not the focus of the community. We leave families to inculcate values (whether of modesty or religiousity) and not police the community. Over emphasis on ‘Sex, 4 wives, the modesty of women, the lust of men, the xx number of virgins in heaven who will be your reward, etc’ – it may not always bring about the desired outcome? Example, I tell you : “Don’t think of Red car” – You’ve already thought of it haven’t you?! But you were not doing so till I brought up the subject! If only politicians would fill their minds with : “Progress, Good Governance, How to make best use of the blessings God has blessed Malaysia with, how to create a better future for our children” – then this wrong emphasis on “short skirt, transparent blouses, etc” will not be front and centre?

    I apologize if anyone is offended by this posting – just an point of view.

  2. Josh Says:

    You said it – we dare not say it for fear it would be construed as flaming racial intolerance. But incidences of Malay-Muslim incest are so numerous that I can’t tolerate it. Its inhuman and evil.

    The lack of coverings does not induce more rapes. It is the lack of self-control and a lack of respect for women. Countries like France and Holland does not have a high incident of rapes despite their lack of modesty in their fashion wear.

    Personally, these intellectuals are barking on the wrong tree.

  3. Apeiron Says:

    As a non-Muslim I do not have the locus standi nor the knowledge to speak on the teachings of Islam. In Buddhism, the scriptures place a lot of focus on certain precepts, the most important of which is to control if not expunge greed, hatred, lust and other “immoral emotions” from our hearts and minds.
    We run foul of the law or defile ourselves from the religious standpoint because we failed to control our emotions, and therefore failed to act “virtuously”.
    To prevent an undesirable act from taking place, one can do any of the following:

    1. Through religious teaching, family education, and moral lessons in schools, one can put one’s emotions under check and control (if I am not mistaken, this is the real “jihad” that Islam is preaching), then the undesirable act would not happen.
    2. Removing the “catalyst” (or potential victim of the crime) from the sight of the potential offender.
    3. Minimise or eliminate all “symbols or actions” of the potential victim in order to reduce the motivation of the “offender” to commit the crime.

    What Munirah Bahari had advocated is no.3 above, which in my opinion is the “weakest” defence against the possible crime she fears.
    The most effective defence is society’s ability to enhance religious values and moral imperatives in all of us. To pin our hopes on ” less revealing dressing” to prevent crimes of passion does’nt seem wise or effective.

  4. Ginger Says:

    These idiotic statements keep coming back once in a while. Personally, I don’t take them seriously as they reflect on the imbecile intellectuality of the commentors. I fully agree with Marina about our educational system producing intellectual midgets. There is a Hokkien street lingo which literally translates to “let’s laugh at them”.

  5. ahmadjek Says:

    Now, what makes rapist? It’s how they think. There’s certainly an influence by the media. TV aside, there’re magazines & papers with “steamy” stories that are enough to stimulate ones mind.


  6. Hi Haris,this is really really stupid hogwash and I just shake my head in disbelief that a woman can uttered such nonsence for public consumption. It is not the dress which is the culprit of sexual ills in our society! It is the lack of proper knowledge and sex education among the young people. Children,especially those approaching teenage years should be taught to understand and respect each other’s bodies and also their own.This Munirah Bahari think along the line of PAS Nik Aziz. Haris you are right to note that rape of grandaughters,daughters,sisters or nieces rarely happen in non Malay Muslim communities.Did you also notice that
    non Malay Muslim did not ‘tutup aurat’,they just dress as they please.They also mix freely among themselves when they study or play.This started even from their kindergarten years all through to secondary school.No segregation of gender or religious doctrines.This is the kind of environment non Malay Muslim children grow up in -natural and happy without any religious burdens.
    Can you see the link now ,Haris?

    a concerned voter,

    Your point is well taken.

    This was going to be my point in a folllow-up posting.

  7. delCapo Says:

    Well said!!

    Just to add a little dark humour… Japanese men likes their schoolgirls in uniform too! Maybe a little too much.
    Interesting to see their rape case stats compared to ours among schoolgirls.

    I dun believe such a narrow minded piece of crap of a statement is still making news in our country.

  8. A true Malaysian Says:

    Haris,

    Many Muslims find ‘dressing’ of a woman is the main cause for rape and sex harassment. This is also what Munirah’s opinion. How sad right? Nor Suzaily was dressed properly at time when she was targeted as rape victim. So?

    My point here is that sex education starts from parents and it is the duty of parents to teach our kids to respect each other’s bodies and dignity. Of course, we expect our daugthers to dress up decently, but not to the extent of cover up the whole body.

    I found it very vague to some Muslims’ beliefs in dressing code. Men should be able to respect a woman.

  9. abln Says:

    Haris,

    Some people seem to link sex and rape to all sorts of things such as the school uniform, length of hair, an uncovered arm, etc. Could it be that these people are thinking about sex all the time, whilst the rest of the world are focusing on things such as justice, eradication of poverty, improved education, etc?

    abln,

    You are probably right


  10. Oops,Haris,there are 2 points I have ommitted in my previous comment. Firstly,speaking of transparent blouse which attracted men’s attention.Did you notice those classical beauties in P.Ramlee’s movies? The heroins are mostly dressed in transparent blouses matched with beautiful batik sarongs.Their hair are neatly tied up in a bun.They are the epitome of Malay beauty-so feminine yet so elegant.Compare them with Malay women nowadays – so monotonous with their tudung and baju kurung-they look pitiful! Yes,pray tell me ,
    do these classical Malay beauties got raped big time back then!
    Secondly,you asked whether there is any incest cases in the non Malay Muslim communities that was not reported.
    Haris,I am in no position to speak for Indian families
    but as far as Chinese families are concerned,this is extremely rare.The evil thought or instinct to rape our own daughters,sisters or nieces simply did not cross our minds.Their bodies are too too too precious for us
    to violate!

  11. artchan Says:

    Suzaily was covered with a tudung…so are we to say the tudung incites rape.? Munirah, what are you trying to say?

  12. hkengmacao Says:

    Year in and year out we see these fanatics talk about bahasa, bangsa ugama, ketuanan, keagungan, bahasa melayu and not bahasa malaysia and so on. When we give our views, then kena acused we challenged their rights and sensitive issues.

    When can they be more progressive and dynamic in thinking? Susahlah, seem that there is no hope anymore.

  13. Lynn Says:

    Haris

    At a time when as a nation, we should be focusing
    our energy and efforts to ensure survival amid global soaring prices, all the various blogs and MSMs are wasting time and energy blasting this idiotic lady for her ludricrous comments. I agree whole heartedly with noyawns and a concerned voter that under economic pressure, Malaysian Chinese has always focussed on education and family economics and consider the bodies of their female family members too too precious to violate.

    Even my college going daughter was so riled up by the stupid comments that she urged me to voice out in cyberspace how regressive such mentality reflects of a person and she is embarrassed to be associated with Munirah Bahari as a member of the female species in Malaysia. Whilst in secondary school, they weren’t allowed to have a swimming club because that would require female students to display too much of their ‘aurat’; we then had to send her for private swimming lessons although we are from the working class as we deem it a basic survival skill. Then she was always worried that her pinafore hem length must cover her knees as the school’s utazah will lecture her about it. I was always upset by this state of affairs and told her that should the utazah ever approach her about her pinafore’s hem length, she should firmly tell her uztazah that we’re not Muslims and direct her to speak with me. So I can only conclude that our national education system has been so ingrained with this narrow ultra Islamic emphasis that it is no surprise really that we have amongst our midst such regressive and demeaning comments.


  14. One day I read an article in TheStar and notice the advertisement shows things related to sex material like condom and others. Then I realize that article was about Rape. Now TheStar has removed those google ads space embedded in articles.

    Almost every one and two days we sure read Rape cases in newspaper. There is nothing else more important than sex for Malaysians…

    I have a short conclusion on rape cases reported in newspaper.
    1. Malay men rape own daughter.
    2. Indian men rape and KILL own daughter/wife.
    3. Chinese men rape and SELL daughter/wife for prostitution.

    Interesting eh?

  15. cruzeiro Says:

    I’ve got a hypothesis ….

    Call it freudian – I donno.
    It gotta be the frustrations, heat and stinking sweat from the bindings on and in her head that makes her speak that way.
    It is the rot within their ideas that give rise to such perverted ideas.

    Munirah probably thinks and hopes every man is out to rape her at first sight, due to her recurring perverted fantantasies of abuse.
    Maybe she just hopes so- who knows? She might be a masochistic pervert herself. She might be having rape fantasies every night, hoping that any man would come around to ravish her brutally, and she’s just letting desires and fetish be known!
    We’ll have to study her childhood to confirm the cause of that …

  16. bayi Says:

    You’ve really hit the nail. How apt.

  17. richardpoon Says:

    josh is wrong to refer to her as an intellectual….she is a half baked product of our screwed up education system that produces half past six and unemployable graduates….only a person with a perverted mind have such perverted thoughts.

  18. BaronV Says:

    Haris. For years I have been saying this, but its possible my views are biased because im a liberalist and a libertarian. I always challange conservative ’social norms’ which are prevalent in malaysia but I feel are hypocritical. Im completely against society trying to control the individual which unfortunately is the malaysian mentality. “the world must be the way i think it should be. people must think and behave in the way i say so. etc” All malaysians.

    The fact is, the more you try to close up, the more people will try to rebel. Trying to supress human nature will only lead to conflict. Instead its better to channel it to something more worthwhile.

    You can see the extrames. Afghanistan-Saudi Arabia’s Burqa culture and european FKK (free body culture) or nudism. Again these are the two extreams. People always say “you need to cover up, itll harm the children blabla. or youl get raped”. But why is it in more open societies rape and such incidances are far less frequent. (again your argument =)

    is it that “sin numbs your senses” or that in a more tolerant open society people are more used to such things and its therefore nothing more than a part day-today life?

    The fact is that rapes n rape+incest(ie:forced+non-concensual) which as far as im concerned is worse because its also a betrayal of trust, is commited by horny perverted men (and sometimes women, yes there are women rapists but they always get away with it) who:

    a)cant control themselves
    b)HAVE NO RESPECT FOR ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES AND THEIR SELFISH DESIRES

    isnt this what we should be addressing?

    People have a right to dress and behave as they want as long as they do not affect others negatively. Why is it its not the tauke’s fault for buyng a BMW (showing off) n then getting robbed, but its the girls fault for getting raped?

    Hogwash is wat it is.

    Her arguments are ludicrious and bear no water whatsoever. They come from a selfish desire to shove her ideas upon everyone else, and a skewed form of thinking.

    If I have offended you I apologise, but you should think of why you are offended. Is it because My arguments are true and they challange your way of thinking , or the way you want things to be?
    If yes, then i retract my apology. Otherwise please do not be offended, but view my arguments factually and constructively.

    BaronV,

    Absolutely no offence taken.

    In fact, no disagreement with your views

  19. Keith Says:

    In addition to the statistics regarding rape cases in relation to ethnicity, I would also like to know breakdown of the cases in terms of states in Malaysia. Sadly, PDRM website doesn’t publish this kind of data.

  20. doggone Says:

    hi HI,

    ‘ye judge the tree by its fruit’.
    If only the leaves were transparent enough?

    I alway enjoy your articles.

  21. Joe Tan Says:

    Its obvious this lady is out of touch, and her logic is baffling to say the least. Given this stupidity, I suggest we dont dignify this moron by even paying heed or responding to her. That way we dont become stupid ourselves….


  22. It is true, it is not a woman’s dress the main issue, yet some of us man who shall prefer self-restrain. The best attire is still Taqwa.

  23. Marcus Lee Says:

    I think the media should just stop reporting on such imbecilities and idiotic remarks. Pay no heed to them at all and let’s not waste an inch of printed page anymore on such stupendous idiocy. It is not worth our time to even deliberate on such stupidity. There are more important things to worry about. In fact that lady should apologize to all men and women. To men because it is an insult to think that men will get out of control by mere sight of a white top. To women because it is an insult on their intelligence to know how to dress decently and appropriately. I think she should just resign from society and live in a cave deep in Sarawak jungle swathed in 100 layers of cloth. I guarantee her, not a single sentient being would disturb her there, not even a bug. She should be happy to know that her virtuousness would be well preserved then.

  24. scout Says:

    Why do we always have stupid people who make stupid comments that in turn, make us all look stupid to the rest of the world?

    Don’t you have other things to worry about? For instance, why don’t you think of ways to address our impending food crisis? Or, perhaps you could talk about the ever rising cost of living and the rising inflation? If you really had to be religious about it, you could suggest that we pray for a better future and hope that we won’t all starve or something (not sure how that might help, but you could be religious about anything under the sun).

    I don’t know how you’ve been educated, but let me tell you this: women are not objects! Stop treating women like objects to be had by men.

    And I certainly don’t know why you are protecting perverts and rapists by shifting the blame to women/girls.

  25. Marcus Lee Says:

    Another observation. If a woman’s body attracts so much problem, causes so many men to lust beyond their control and to eventually commit a trespass against women, I wonder why God even bother, in the first place, to create woman with silky flesh, wonderful curves, lustrious hair, delicate ankles etc. Might as well create women comprising of just a head (not any head but a really hideous one – who knows, men may just rape that head which happens to have a beautiful pair of nostrils), hands and a pair of feet, san ankles and nothing more. Perhaps Munirah should wish she is created that way instead of being born normal.

  26. retard Says:

    let’s give Munirah Bahari the benefit of the doubt. after all she has all the statistical facts and references to reputable studies and research papers to support her theory right?

    the way she arrives at her conclusions are just a little ridiculous for me. it’s like blaming the air we breath as the reason we all die because, um, we all will die some day, and we all breath air.

  27. Paul Warren Says:

    Maybe the next time I go to Bali or some Australian beach where you got topless or total nudity I should invite this guy to come along. Wonder if he will really.

    These guys are so apish in their thinking that they probably would think that in a topless beach the girls are sending out an invitation to treat.

    There is obviously a conclusion that can be drawn that these guys upon seeing transparent clothing, their minds go to work and under auto-pilot it is quite natural to experience stirrings in their groins. And if so, then who so ever caused that stirring is justifiable prey to them.Does that explain why their 3 year old kids too can fall victim?

    Why are these guys so pre-occupied with sex in their head anyway? If really they so easily get worked up I suppose there must be a market for adult diapers for these guys to wear around so that in case they need to ejaculate on the fly they can happily do so..and not cause their frustration to lead to the rape of another innocent kid. Indeed I would not trust any of these holier than thous with my 14 year old kid, let alone a 3 year old.

  28. justinjustifyingjustice Says:

    Since she has such an opinion, why not asking her to design an ideal school uniform which she thinks will not cause rape and molest and etc etc.

    No, better still, why not all gals should just stay at home.

    Ooh, n since she is a gal, so she should just stay at home. And what is her dressing?

    Please don’t blame the victims for their dressing. But blame the rapist and molesters for not able to control their lust.

  29. Noor Aza Othman Says:

    Brilliant article Haris; more of this kind please! As usual, the Taliban/Al-Qaeda way of thinking which seems to have spread among the once liberal and rational Malay civilization (remember the great P. Ramlee movies, or the liberal Indonesian movies?)blame the women for their perverted bastardly lust! Whilst they want the women to cover up publicly, they might have an orgasm over some pornographic cheapshots! But if “their women” who are treated like chattels dare to oppose their sadist fantasy of how their chattels/cows more like it, should behave, walk, talk and think, the women might just get bashed, raped and murdered like in the widespread legitimized “honor killings”! These bastard beastly men can’t control their lust; so hey presto, let’s control the women instead! What saddens me is that the women take all this crap and even defend it like those unthinking critically Malay students. Thus is why, i was shocked to discover that many Malay women, including in veil, defending the bastards who murdered and probably raped unfortunate Altantuya so viciously, just because the criminal police bastards are Malay/Muslim and Altantuya is foreign; doesn’t matter that she’s a woman! And I remember cringing with so much anger and pain of seeing the above Noor Suzaily’s Malay rapist and murderer laughing as if he couldn’t give a damn at all about such evil act, and yet he was supported so loyally and lovingly by his few veiled wives at court! Besides, such Taliban/Al-Qaeda way of thinking only make the men have increasing less respect for women; and suppressed sexually and hence, also contribute towards the increase sexual crime rate by Malay/Muslim boys and men. Do we hear of such vicious crime and increase crime rate during P. Ramlee times when women wear the most sexy clothes including in sexy kebayas? Instead of seeing themselves as the problem; for this Taliban/Al-Qaeda kind of men and women, it’s the women who are seen as the “evil seducer”!

    Noor Aza Othman.

  30. artic turban Says:

    haris
    In 1983, I worked as a sales representative with Malaysian Tobacco Company (MTC), the distributor of cigarettes like B & H, Kent and Lucky Strike.
    MTC posted me to Kuala Kangsar, Lenggong and Grik

    do you recall the little adventure you had where you were thrown out from the train in kampar if I recall rightly.
    Coming back to this article, well its called GIGO IN computer lingo, what it means is
    “garbage in garbage out” when you teach these people garbage well garbage is what they spout, these are the rewards of crutches and MALAYSIAN EDUCATION SYSTEM IMPLEMENTED BY OUR GREAT mahathir, when he was the education minister, LOOKS LIKE THE ROOSTERS HAVE COME BACK TO ROOST.

    artic turban,

    How could I ever forget being ejected from the train. Was worth it, though!

  31. shar101 Says:

    Munirah B should start wearing thongs.

    It may liberate her ‘tempurung’ mind.

    Shar,

    I had said take off the blouse as it was making me hot.

    Your ‘dirty’ talk isn’t helping!

  32. oA Says:

    lynn said ;

    So I can only conclude that our national education system has been so ingrained with this narrow ultra Islamic emphasis that it is no surprise really that we have amongst our midst such regressive and demeaning comments.

    ————————————–

    Ask the spineless dpm’s cousin – the kerisman. He knows.

    This is perhaps one of their many DEVIOUS AGENDA – polarization – by introducing such religious fervor into the class rooms.

    The spineless and the kerisman have displayed quite a bit of their unpleasant vulgar antiques – serving to remind the “immigrants” that they are nothing in this country.

    Of course by

    Furthering racism, religious extremism and bigotry they so much needed to reach the top

    And to keep

    The supposedly “immigrants” from having a foot hold on this land else they (the delusional ones – like the spineless dpm) might lose political power craps that have had been popularly espoused by unmo.

    NS introduced by the spineless for the purpose of racial integration is nothing more than hogwash – to cover his glaring racist ass.

    .

  33. highschootom Says:

    (i was completely speechless reading reports from munirah..sooner or later all malaysian girls will wear burqa..bolehland boleh!! kiongkan!!..

  34. alhadee Says:

    Sometimes…

    It is so hard to say anything..

    in front of pure stupidity.


  35. [...] level-headed opinions that make sense here and [...]

  36. CLK Says:

    Yeah..blame the victim/ oppressed for the cause! Our children are to be blamed, not the perpetrator…looks like someones’ grey cells btw the ears have turned toxic.

  37. Scott Thong Says:

    Question: Why do men in tribal villages not uncontrollably, spontaneously, continually rape their women who go around topless 24 hours?

    Cuh. Blaming the girls and women AGAIN.

    Isn’t self-control, even in the face of (very subjectively defined) temptation, supposed to be a trait of the pious?

    Poster mockery of their idea of temptation at School Uniform Causes Rape: Malaysian Pervert Group Leers at Underage Schoolgirls, Assumes Every Other Male is Just as Deviant

  38. givemeliberty Says:

    Lust swells from the mind and it arises from temptation of the forbidden.

    In the Amazon not too long ago, the natives – male and female, young and old – were virtually naked. And rape is not rampant and even furthest from their minds.

    Same thing in the jungles of Malaya and Borneo, also too long ago, natives were topless – male and female, young and old.

    A friend of mind told me that he had seen in Sydney in summer, women going about topless! Any increase in rape cases there? Not that I have heard.

    A Malay-Muslim colleague of mine once related to me of her umrah in Mecca and Medina. She said that our Malaysian men in her group got excited seeing Arab women all covered up, but visibly braless.

    And we know of Arab men getting excited seeing hair peeking out from a woman’s headshawl.

    Familarity breeds contempt, while the forbidden fruit tastes sweeter!


  39. Dear Haris,

    glad you’re back to being your usual strident self. I had begun to miss the incisive socio-political posts that I suspect time constraints and more pressing matters kept you from.

    At the risk of repetition, shouldn’t we be dealing with the social factors that have led to states of mind that not only allow for horrendous acts such as rape and incest but also the ‘justification’ of these crimes by reference to the conduct – attire, behaviour, etc – of the victims.

    It is apparent that Munirah obviously needs her head examined if she thinks the victims of rape and incest have anything to do with what happens to them. What frightens me is that she felt confident enough to take the position she did publicly. That points to either a strong belief in the truth of her words and the warmthi with which they would be received OR a belief that any publicity is better than no publicity (I had not heard of Munirah prior to this incident). Or perhaps both.

    Whatever the case, the fact that a woman can publicly take an apologetic position on an issue like this, premised on what appears to be a foundation of Islamic principle at that, suggests that something has gone very wrong in the way our community has sought to develop values as well as develop Islam. I should not be surprised, Munirah’s statement reflects the shallow, reckless and form over substance approach taken in all aspects of our public lives by those who profess to lead. When do we as a nation start addressing that?

    Islam is a state matter. The Pakatan States as such have control over matters pertaining to the administration of Islam that would not only allow, but also obligate, them to look into how to begin to address the talibanization of Islam by politicians and aspiring politicians. I think it is time we begin to hold the Pakatan to the promises of moderation, progressiveness and accountability that were made to us prior to the Elections.

    Take care of yourself my friend,

    Imtiaz

  40. ronin Says:

    Rape should not happen simply because

    a) Men should respect women, and women should respect men.
    b) We are civilised, principled and educated society.
    c) We are all children of God, and no religion condone such behavior.
    d) Malaysia is a country governed by law, the citizens should always be fearful of punishment.

    Sadly, the fact that rape is still happening is proof that the above is not strong enough and that our society is deteriorating/decaying.

    I don’t think rape has anything to do with the blouse.

  41. novice101 Says:

    Wonder whether we are giving too much attention and space to the pea-brained comments made regarding our school uniforms for the schoolgirls?

    Are we lured into giving theses pea-brained individuals the publicity they yearn for? This may be their motive. They may be trying to catch the attention of the UMNOputerasso that they may be parachuted straight into positions of power.

    On second thought we should pour more space and attention upon them, so they will be picked by UMNO thus help bring on the demise of UMNO sooner.

  42. svsingam Says:

    With my limited knowledge of Islam, my observation is that the focus in many Islamist cultures is too much on form and too little on substance. This is why so many fail to understand the underlying principles that should be guiding them.

    Qur’an does not only advise women to “conceal their ornaments”. It also advises men to “lower their gaze”. But, because of the focus on covering up the “raw meat” (to quote an infamous Ozzie), males don’t learn to manage their raging passions and quickly find excuses for their transgressions.

    The saddest part is that the females have also fallen into the trap and made themselves victims. Until the mind is set free, the whole world will be a prison.

  43. kaki ayam Says:

    But haris, a typical muslim does have a standard counter argument to yours. They feel that the rape may not usually occur to the one most sexily dressed and desirable. But the rape usually occurs (on a different person) after the rapist were sexually aroused by some scantily clad women, through the media or in the public.

    So in other words, the rape occurs due the fact that most non muslims does not coverup, hence arousing the sexual urges of the men.

    They also believe that if each and every woman in this country covers up, the incidences of rape will be greatly reduced. Assuming the gov censors the media from hot spicy scenes and uncovered woman.

    Now, no one can verify how true will that be. But it seems that until we prove that man DOES rape even in these circumstances, this will be their line of argument for the need to coverup.

    KaKiaYam

    ___________________________________________________
    http://chickenfeet.wordpress.com/

    KaKiaYam,

    This still doea not explain why then we have numerous reported cases of Malay Muslim g’fathers, fathers and brothers raping g’daughters, daughters and sisters but hardly of the same in non-Muslim households where more ‘flesh’ might be revealed.

    Do these Malay Muslim g’fathers, fathers and brothers go and ogle young girls in shorts and sleeveless t-shirts in Chinese new villages and then, being aroused, go home and take it out on kith and kin?

  44. Philip L. H. LIM Says:

    My hypothesis:

    Circumcised Men are sexually more active.

    I’m not against circumcision, whether it is by choice (for cleanliness) or by religious commandment, but the exposure of the part, when the foreskin was cut, stimulates.

    Most circumcised males practice self control – shd be commended, other circumcised males succumb to sexual stimulation of his exposed part. Women’s dressing may contribute to this desire, but women shdn’t be punished as a result of men’s weaknesses. Also the argument on dressing that not the scantily-dressed girl raped because that men may 1st saw the scantily-dressed girl, got sexually excited, & wronged the next girl he encountered – who may be actually covered head-to-toe.

    Only a hypothesis, ppl – no hard evidence proof!!

  45. Amin Says:

    I knew Noor Suzaily Mokhtar briefly from work, very likable, well-mannered person. When the news broke, I recalled the disbelief in the office as it was only a few days before we all had a jolly chat over “minum petang” at the office.

    May her soul rest in peace.

    The thing is Su doesn’t fit the profile of a typical rape victim generalised by this simplistic Munirah.

    Munirah needs to understand that rapists have a more psychopathic agenda behind the crimes they commit. The victims are not seen as individuals but rather a representation of a collective that has created such a suppressed hate recessed deep inside the mind of the rapist (typically an abusive mother or a cheating lover).

    She should understand that what the victim wears is superficial to the rapist and that the sexual act in the rape is not driven by sexual desires or berahi. Rather, it is a tool of expression, a tool of domination of the rapist towards his victim.

    She should read more books and act like she deserved being in her professional role.

    Amin,

    thanks for sharing this with us

  46. BobSam Says:

    Haris
    Munirah highlighted the fact that women are enticing men using “bright”/crispy white blouses, etc.
    I believe you brought up the rape & murder of poor Noor Suzaily in Klang. I m sure Munirah will say, that even though Sue was dressed modestly, she wore “bright” attractive colored outfits, which attracted innocent, calm & honorable men to do things that were unworthy of their gender.

    Munirah has rightly stated that wearing a black robe or bedsheet should be mandatory for all women, so that no outline of the human body can be seen. And all women have to get their husband’s, father’s, brother’s signature before leaving the house or leaving the country.

    This is perfectly legitimate expression of thought from an intellectual giant. She must have graduated from the same class as the UMNO MP’s from Kinabatangan and Jerai. It is always the women’s fault for being raped.

    Another thing about women these days that Munirah forgot to mention is that they should know that “No” is not an option for them. Everytime they go about screaming rape when they are caught in a compromising position. They have to be reminded that the law requires them to find 4 men of good standing who witnessed the act that she is referring to. Else do not condemn the poor innocent, sweet male who was exercising his “natural” flesh and rights as guaranteed under the constitution, especially when women wear enticing white loose blouses and colorful clothing which attract attention.

    I notice that Imtiaz is also confused over social factors that lead to rape and whatnot. There are no social factors, as stated by the great intellectual Munirah, “The white (or brilliantly colored) blouse is too transparent for girls and it becomes a source of attraction…It becomes a distraction to men, who are drawn to it, whether or not they like looking at it,”. Perhaps Imtiaz should start a class-action suit against all departmental stores, clothing & garment manufacturers for creating/selling these clothes which result in the poor innocent man doing disgusting things becoz of these women & their clothing. It is the fault of these manufacturers.

    Please get RELA & UMNO leaders to have a word with these manufacturers. We need them to get the country safer for women. Young girls who are less than 18 years of age are now safe in Melaka becoz my great leader, Rahim (the Small Chicken Boy) has cleaned up Melaka. We have to bring back UMNO & BN for them to clean up with vice that is goin on (kindly refer to my Indonesian dentist from Kajang for clarification – check out his comments in the Selangor State Assembly meeting).

    Have a nice day/weekend Haris, Imtiaz & everyone else.

  47. Jamesrock Says:

    It seems when someone trying to say his/her views especially regarding about woman/girl attire, it attracts alot of cat-calls. I dont believe her view about the colour and thinness of the schoolgirls’ dress should be made equatable to Taliban’s or Afghanistan’s mentality. I personally notice especially when these girls were sweating or drenched with rain water, i could see the inner part of their bodies. We were equally embarassed when we realised it. I pity those girls, they know how embarrassing it was. Were we perverts? I’m sure, at the time they never bother if the government changed the colour and the material of the shirt would be matter as Taliban’s or not. Just get them out of their predicament! Like international schools in Malaysia and some schools in UK especially the elite ones, they are in nice colourful attires and quite thick materials even in summer!


  48. [...] Haris, Marina and Patrick all blogged on this subject. [...]

  49. artic turban Says:

    this article came out in the finnish national news and was basically, there was a groan of incredibility by those watching and all eyes turned to me, what could I say, well you find morons every where, by the way it was also on the national news. I think the time has come for the govt. to close all the tourism offices and waste the countles billions over the years spent on publicity campaigns, all we need is for dungus like this to make stupid and Outrageous statements for Malaysia to get free publicity. The money saved can go to building shelters for the mentally inept or insane.


  50. I find it ironic that while some Middle Eastern women had progressed to the front to fight for their rights such as the famous Wafa Sultan,over here we have some who regressed to a ridiculous level.Even Queen Rania who had just visited Malaysia last week was dressed in a neat,modern and fashionable way! No tutup aurat for Her Majesty Queen Rania.


  51. Aiyah Bro Haris,this thing just cross my mind. Ko Ko(brother) is busy chasing his paper qualification, Pa Pa (father) is busy chasing money and Kung Kung (grandfather) is busy chasing the discarded bottles,cans and cardboard for recycling.Where got time to disturb us female kins at home? Just joking only but can get my hints? Have a nice weekend though!


  52. You take off your blouse first, Haris Ibrahim. A refutation to your article

    http://www.malaysiawaves.com/2008/05/you-take-off-your-blouse-first-haris_23.html

    Abdul Rahaman,

    Blouse off. Now what?

  53. Helen Ang Says:

    Abdul Rahman Abdul Talib (Comment #53),

    You wrote: “[W]hen was the last time we see all-covered women being used by corporations to advertised their products? There must be a reason that women wearing revealing clothes are the more preferred choice to advertisers as compared to ‘burqa’ wearing women?”

    In the East Coast, the Celcom billboard featuring Maya Karin has her demurely covered up in a red tudung – admittedly a ‘hot’ colour nonetheless – and smart long-sleeve blouse. In the Klang Valley, the mega billboards feature this same actress in what, according to your lights, would be revealing clothes and sexy pose.

    There are other equally young and pretty actresses who wear tudung consistently (e.g. Wardina) that could be made the telco’s product ambassadress without creating such an anomaly of two different personas on either side of the Titiwangsa range.

    In one blog, I came across an amusing comment that our local artistes usually wear tudung on three occasions: akad nikah, “attending Syariah court for divorce two weeks later” and when their husband passed away.

    FYI, my friends wear tudung and in my eyes, it makes them look ayu and tertib. However if other Muslim women choose not to ‘tutup aurat’ (my understanding of M’sian interpretation), then I believe it’s a personal choice to be respected as well.

    So I’m just curious as to your opinion of Celcom as an advertiser as well as your take on whether there are any significant differences between the way PAS and Umno views pop culture.

    Thank you & salam.

  54. Wong Says:

    As a non-Muslim female, who dresses any way I please, I find part of this groups comments quite true!

    Quoted from Munirah:
    “The white blouse…. for girls… becomes a source of attraction…It becomes a distraction to men, who are drawn to it, whether or not they like looking at it,”

    Allow me to explain that it doesn’t matter what colour or how transparent, or even how covered up! but ‘men’ are drawn to it.

    In Malaysia, I frequently dress down to avoid attention. (Or so I thought)

    Many a time, I have dressed in XL sized plain black t shirts with a ridiculously high neckline, sleeves to my elbows and the shirt ending halfway down my thighs. (its that big) I also own a number of extremely baggy jeans, which i tend to pair with my XL black t shirts. My choice of footwear is also my blue sneakers. (tell me, it that revealing or sexy?)

    Likewise, many a time! I have received taunts and cat-calls from men while dressed in this manner!!! I was just walking down the road, with a school bag over my shoulders (going home from university)

    Doesn’t matter WHAT a girl wears. As long as the person looks ‘vaguely female’, it is enough to earn her cat calls and taunts!

    Don’t blame the females. Blame it on education. Blame it on a generation who maintains the treatment of women as inferior and sex objects. Maybe! (I’m going to be stomping on religious toes here) Blame it on education that teach men (and women) that women are to satisfy the sexual desires of their husbands/men.

    Here is an excerpt from Ktemoc’s Blog

    “The Mufti explained that in a marriage, it’s not always the wives who were abused as it could also happen to the husbands. He advised that Islamic laws protect both women and men.

    He warned: “Thus wives who do not provide proper care for their husbands, including not fulfilling their sexual needs, can be considered as being unjust and abusive towards their husbands.”

    “These women can be charged under Section 128 (1) of the Kelantan Islamic Law Enactment 2002.””***

    I am attacking the role education, (and these people) play in teaching men that women are there for their ‘fun’, and women who do not cover up, or wear too transparent a school uniform or wives who do not acquiesce to their husbands sexual demands are in the wrong and deserve molestation and rape. This sends out a very dangerous message to men and women!

    Think about it. Why is it ‘perfectly normal’ for men to be so easily seduced by a female, and ‘completely immoral’ for a female to not cover up?

    Why is ‘acceptable’ that a man lose control of his urges?

    (i say acceptable because it is most of then that the victim is blamed. Rarely the rapist)

    Likewise, a rape victim nearly always blames him/herself. (guys get raped too! usually by other men!)

    Think about it!

    ***Mufti quote sourced from Ktemoc’s Blog post
    Date: Friday August 4th, 2006
    Accessed Sunday, May 25, 2008
    http://ktemoc.blogspot.com/2006/08/wives-not-satisfying-husbands-are.html

  55. BTI Says:

    Your article doesn’t make sense. You make yourself look like stupid!

  56. diagnosiscrime Says:

    Probably a little too outdated to leave a comment, but will do, regardless.

    I recall the time when I myself was a victim to a molester years ago. I was 14 years old, walking home by myself after running an errand to the nearby shops. I was dressed in an ugly oversized t-shirt – I confess I was a late bloomer and did not understand the significance of teenage fashion and I used to dress up in unflattering clothes. I was a tiny little lass for that age, I wore baggy jeans, big shoes and large spectacles. As I was walking, I was completely unaware that I was being followed by a greasy youth with a leer on his lips. It was not until when a neighbour’s dog barked frantically when I realized the danger I was in. He grabbed me, molested me, touched me in a way that I could never have imagined a person could have violated me. And then he walked away, grinning cheekily at me as though he had done me a big favour. Something snapped inside my brain. I dropped my things, rage filled my heart, and all I could think was how important it was for me to pound him into a senseless pulp. It never occurred to me that he could have carried a weapon, he could have killed me. I allowed fury to overtake my emotion as I gave chase, threw myself over him, kicking, punching and screaming – unleashing my vocal chords and everything I have learned in my self-defense classes that I have been taking outside my school hours. The neighbours were alerted to the uproar, someone called the police. And I watched with angry satisfaction as the cops hauled the sex offender away, as he howled his protests, vainly claiming innocence. When I went to the police station accompanied by my father later to fill my report, he was sitting in a corner not too far away from me. I stared down at him. I remember this strange feeling of surreality as I gazed at him. And he looked away, unable to look back at the little girl that defeated his ugly intentions.

    When people heard of this incident, I remember the very first question they asked me was: “What were you wearing?” And I remember how deeply wounded I felt at that. As if I had demanded for that kind of attention.

    I am not making this up, this case is filed away in a police station somewhere in PJ.

    Now I am an adult woman, a future criminalist. I study criminals, crimes and crime scenes. My interest lies specifically in sex offenders. I study what makes them tick. I learn what provokes their actions. I know what motivates them.

    And I can safely attest that clothes is not the factor for their actions.

    Who are the men that rape and molest? Why do they rape? The psychodynamic patterns of rape include power rape, anger rape and sadistic rape. And none of them ever consider what women wear as the true factor behind their drive for the sexual assault. Rape is an attempt to discharge anger, contempt and hostility toward women. Rapists want to hurt, degrade and humiliate. They want to control and exploit their victim. Rape is an effort to deny and repress sexual anxieties and self doubt. Rape is a method to reaffirm his identity, competency and manhood. It is a symptom of a personality dysfunction – more related to stress and conflict rather than pleasure and satisfaction.

    You’d be interested to know that many of these offenders are repressed men.

    So tell me. How does what we wear become a factor in sex crimes? Why are women always blamed for the crime? Why is the violence against us females often trivialized? If women are at fault of the crime, then how do you explain little boys that are victimised by rapists and molesters as well? Does anybody remember the case of the little boy who was raped, sodomised and murdered so callously some years ago? Or his death is just a fading memory as society focus more on victim-blame, particularly against women?

    There are cases of men being raped – rare, yes, but it’s there. So tell me – men who are raped, is it because of what they wear? Did they “ask for it” as well?

    diagnosisiscrime,

    Thank you so much for sharing with us.


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