Salahuddin, you owe the Bar Council, forum attendees and protesters an apology for lying!
August 14, 2008
Signatures to the petition to His Majesty to intervene in the matter of further appointments of judges to the Court of Appeal and the Federal Court, as at 1.45pm today, stands at 5,503. If you have not as yet signed the petition, you may access the same HERE.
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‘We don’t see the forum as non-Muslims encroaching into theological matters. The underpinning reason was for the legal, technical and procedural lacuna created by Article 121 (1A) to be ironed out in earnestness and intellectual integrity” - PAS Research Centre director and Kuala Selangor MP Dr Zulkifli Ahmad, as reported in Star online
“…The forum is not about conversion per se, as the Bar Council endorses the absolute right of individuals to embrace Islam. Instead, the forum will address the ancillary issues that arise from such situations and will emphasise the need for laws and a judicial system that protects everyone equally,” - Star online reports on the statement by Bar Council vice-chairman Ragunath Kesavan.
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‘Kita himpun pada pagi ini untuk menentang satu forum yang secara terang-terangan mencabar kedudukan Islam dan umat Islam dalam negara kita…Saya kesal mereka daripada Bar Council, mereka faham undang-undang, mereka adalah golongan yang mahir dalam undang-undang, mengapa mereka mencabar Perkara 121(1A). Ini adalah satu perkara yang mencabar umat Islam’ - Salahudin Ayub, lying to the crowd of protesters outside the Bar Council on Saturday.
You can view this from minute 2.20 to 4.00 of the video clip below.
Salahuddin lied.
Salahuddin misled the protesters about the purport and intent of the forum.
Why?
On 12th August, Malaysiakini reported Salahudin as complaining that his role at the demonstration on Saturday had been wrongly portrayed.
“When I realised that other Muslims would be attending the forum, including PAS and other Islamic NGOs, I joined in. However, my attendance was to ensure that PAS supporters did not become unruly and cause any problems” - Salahudin is reported to have said.
So he went along so as not to be left out, was that it?
Would it have anything to do with the PAS General Assembly this week, the seeming divisions within the party leadership, and the need to shore up his position in the eyes of the delegates?
Your guess is as good as mine.
I leave you with today’s NST online report on the ongoing PAS Youth Assembly where Salahuddin is reported to have advised the PAS youth not to take an aggressive and emotional stance all the time, but to cultivate a more “statesman-like” approach by engaging in proper discussions.
The Holy Qur’an has a specific word to describe those who say one thing, yet do the opposite. It’s not very complimentary, as you can well imagine.
August 14, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Did anyone notice something – all those who spoke outside the Bar Council was young generally – these are just ambitious politician wanabes – the KJ type. They don’t believe anything just that politics is a career and they are ambitious as the babarians at the gates of Wall Street.
Truth don’t matter to these people, the means towards their own selfish ends is what matters – Dr. M progeny really.
August 14, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Dear Brother Haris
I guess it is rather ‘in’ and ‘trendy’ to flip flop these days,no?
AAB does it all the time but now coming from this PAS guy?So much for masquerading piousness and holiness…
turned out they are bogus ulamas!
p/s Haris,what is the outcome of your date with the ENT today?Hope you are on the road to full recovery by now.
You are much needed here!
I like chopin,
ENT appointment postponed to tomorrow morning.
Thanks for asking
August 14, 2008 at 2:32 pm
There is something very inexplicable about these people. They don’t need proof of anything. As far as Islam is concerned just ask them to “come out and defend your religion” and there they will be thirsting for blood.
Remember “Satanic Verses” and the “Danish Cartoons”. How many of them read the book or saw the cartoons. But they were ready to jihad against blasphemy.
August 14, 2008 at 2:43 pm
The protesters are like HINDRAF. Treat them the same.
August 14, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Hope all goes well at your ENT appointment tomoro. Thank you for working so hard on behalf of the good citizens of Malaysia.
August 14, 2008 at 2:49 pm
A word ‘munafiq’ cross my mind Haris.
Not that I am accusing anyone of it, least of all the members of the all-holy-Parti Islam Malaysia.
I have been engaging our esteemed friend RC in his blog. He has no idea what is he talking about.
But I don’t expect much from him really. Certainly not from someone who thinks those who have different opinion should be punished severely.
August 14, 2008 at 2:52 pm
BN PP candidate against DSAI, Shah Omar “speaks” Mandarin and Hokkien. Ha ha! So what? He has an AMNO mind. Mind you, as a Mamak, he was the one who led the anti-Chinese/Indian protest in Penang in Komtar in order to demonise Lim Guang Eng. The Chinese and Indian voters will compare the notes with him on voting day when they will award him zero contract (vote).
August 14, 2008 at 4:18 pm
PAS really disappoint me.
For 50 years, we keep on hearing from UMNO about how an open democracy is not healthy to the nation.
We keep on hearing about how some things are sensitive and cannot be challenged (read as discuss openly).
And for 50 years, UMNO keep on threatening us that 13th May would happen again if we choose to be open.
8th March 2008, and we thought this threats have been put into rest, once and for all.
But instead we have PAS, who has not yet form the Federal Govt, echoing the same threat UMNO has been spurring.
This time the issue is on religion.
When is this threat is going to stop?
Allah have mercy on us all. May Allah grant us one day the feel of air of freedom on this land we love so dearly.
August 14, 2008 at 4:19 pm
HINDRAF is about equality, this is act of oppression! How can they be treated the same?
August 14, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Choose BN you die,
choose PR you also die becuase of PAS
except Husam Musa!!!
August 14, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Hardy Awang is very envy of Anwar Ibrahim.
He wants to be the next PM. Nuts!!!
August 14, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Haris,what happen to that cyberspace debate between you and Mahaguru58?I remember he went on a holiday to the east coast and agreed to it once he got back.So how?Still on or has he chicken out?
If we can’t have an open forum on religion,are you sure,Haris,that we can have one in cyberspace?
I like chopin,
MG58 said he would come back from his holiday and respond.
I’m still waiting
August 14, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Dark clouds forming in the future of our country, bro.
PAS people are insistent that a PAS member should be the next prime minister of Malaysia if Pakatan Rakyat takes over the Federal Government.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/8/14/nation/20080814165956&sec=nation
I hope by trying to free ourselves from the clutches of Barisan Nasional, we don’t end up with a system like Iran.
August 14, 2008 at 5:34 pm
I say – as usual still blame the warlords and the mullah hiding behind the angel mask but actually they are the real devil and GREAT LIARS.
Chopin – your dengue cured so fast? (the papaya leave really work?)
..58 – leave him alone – self promoter like the Pas guy who lied.
rajraman.thinking to remove the 666 BUT i like it already.
August 14, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Well, Raja didn’t highlight these issues about the fraud that’s inherent in the Shah dynasty.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KUD2BqHya4M/SKL0tcglR5I/AAAAAAAAIQY/D3LVrL6UuFw/s1600-h/AminShah_071019.jpg
http://www.theedgedaily.com/cms/contentPrint.jsp?id=com.tms.cms.article.Article_b668853c-cb73c03a-68895400-ab623d67&paging=0
August 14, 2008 at 5:40 pm
They never practise what they have preach.
More DOSA they claimed!
August 14, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Isn’t this what we would call “damage-control”? Especially more so since the crowd got too rowdy and out of control (he’s forgotten that it’s no thanks to him).
About the cyberspace debate thing with MG58, I too was waiting for it. So much so that I forgot if the debate was with MG58 or with someone else.
You think he’ll come back to the debate, Haris? Especially since his recent posts on the forum seem so bent on his own view, and unwelcome of any other dissenting opinion.
su,
Quite honestly, I don’t think MG58 cares to debate the issue. Not his style, I guess.
August 14, 2008 at 5:56 pm
have they amended sedition acts and AUKU or our FRU’s were on early halidays,last week.
it is not even nominations day yet.
In the spirit of sendiwara for P44,why not go for PPPA and ISA as well?
malaysia boleh,PP pun boleh
August 14, 2008 at 6:01 pm
What has Hadi Awang done so far to save the country from BN that he deserves the Prime seating? What has Hadi Awang done so far to ensure Pas wins Terengganu instead of BN? In fact, what has he contribute to Malaysia and Malaysian so far? Reduce the oil price? That comes from DSAI. And does he knows economy or not to be the next PM? God is Great! Now I see the true colours of some PAS leaders. None of my waris for the next 7 generation will vote PAS again.
DSAI is the one and only person who tough them all. PAS really has thick skin to asked for the PM post.
August 14, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Haris and readers,
Raja Aziz Addruse who is lawyer and Bar Council president before says that Mahathir and Pakistan President is the same because both are law-iliterate, they dont understand what the judiciary is and try to strangle it.
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/87770
August 14, 2008 at 6:56 pm
One think for sure- Indians,Chinese and some Malays are definetely not going to vote for PAS in next election. They have repeatedly behaved suspiciously when they talked to UMNO without the knowledge of PR. Hadi’s sttement that they would live non muslim majority alliance and this latest flip flop.
August 14, 2008 at 8:03 pm
PAS’ strategem possibly boils down to the following:
- PAS want to get into power (their ambition is bolstered by the General Elections results are keen to turn Malaysia into an Islamic state — in a country where 45% of the population is non-Muslim). They know that this is their best and probably only shot at getting into power.
- They know that after Anwar Ibrahim there will be a vacuum in the Pakatan Rakyat side, and they harbour hopes to fill that vacuum (probably aspiring to install Hadi Awang, Husam Musa or Perak MB Nizar into a position of power). It could also be that they will try to push their Islamic agenda more vigorously if Pakatan gets into power. They might even go against Anwar — it is a possibility.
- They deal with UMNO because they don’t want to put all their eggs in one basket: if they try to ply their Islamic state ideas in Pakatan Rakyat, they know the non-Muslims who voted for Pakatan will vote them out. So they are considering if they could get into power through the Barisan Nasional route, and were testing to see if Barisan or rather UMNO would allow for that (note Nik Aziz’s test for UMNO if they would allow dissolve and form a common party that will rule based on Islam). In essence, they are exploring if they can have greater power by cooperating with UMNO or by sticking with Pakatan.
- PAS has two strands of leaders: the traditional type (Nik Aziz, Hadi Awang, etc.) and then the supposedly ‘liberal/modern’ type (Husam Musa, Nizar). The latter should be carefully monitored because like Turkey’s AK Party, they might try to gain power disguised as moderates but try to invisibly and slowly Islamise governance.
- Assuming Pakatan forms the Federal Government, expect PAS to armtwist. Why? Because even now they are suggesting that restrictive social rules be put in place in the Pakatan Rakyat-governed states.
- As a long-term plan, Parti Keadilan Rakyat and DAP must win over a large share of Malay support to neutralise any threats on the part of PAS to withdraw from Pakatan Rakyat if their policies are not implemented by Pakatan Rakyat. Moderate Malays play a crucial role here, as do disillusioned UMNO supporters.
August 14, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Will the real Salahudin Ayub please stand up?
He lies to one crowd and then tells PAS youth members to be “statesman-like”.
“Salahuddin also urged Pas Youth members not to take an aggressive and emotional stance all the time, but to cultivate a more “statesman-like” approach by engaging in proper discussions.”
http://us2.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/11369/84/
August 14, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Sorry I have to say this … the more I watch and listen to these goons in action, the more I tend to lose respect for their religion as well.
In this day and age, I can’t understand how these people can still behave like barbarians. Don’t they realise their bahaviour will affect the public’s perception of their religious beliefs as well. It’s no use always complaining about how unfair the western media is portraying Islam. I think with these people, the West has been too kind to them already.
August 15, 2008 at 1:29 am
That’s the problem with people, they tend to only see things their way.
Whatever it is that you might think of YB Sallehudin, please be fair in your comments. I don’t see anyone applauding YB Dzulkefly for his views on the forum. Nor do I see anyone praising that PAS lawyer and Central Committee member, Hanipa, for his lengthy discussion why the forum is needed.
Why don’t anyone say anything about what YB Nizar has done so far? Personally, I think he’s a progressive Muslim leader whose well accepted by all. Lo and behold, he’s from PAS?
Did we forget YB Dzulkefly and YB Khalid Samad’s visit to churches some months ago? Remember the last time any Malay-Muslim MP did the the same?
How come no one praises Tok Guru Nik Aziz for his firm stand on the UMNO muzakarah? Did anyone buy the latest Harakah and read the Tok Guru’s suggestion to let a Chinese lead with Islam in this country? Or anything that YB Husam Musa has said or done so far?
I’m not going to defend the actions of some in PAS. I don’t agree with the demo. I don’t agree with banning concerts. And I’m not on all fours with PAS’ Islamic State agenda either.
But I try to be fair. Can we all?
Syahredzan Johan,
Praise for Zulkifli Nordin coming soon
August 15, 2008 at 8:25 am
Shahredzan Johar,
PAS agreed to even let a Chinese lead the country WITH THE CONDITION that he be a Muslim.
So it is not really that egalitarian after all!
Shahredzan, you have to think deeply and understand the motives of any political party, including PAS. They have an Islamisation agenda. But a vast number of rakyat Malaysia are NOT Muslim. So PAS’s Islamisation agenda is unfair.
If you are a Muslim in a country, would you like a Christian political party to have a Christianisation agenda, and run the country based on Christian law? Would you like to be affected by Christian law, as a Muslim, or would you like a secular system where everyone’s religion is equal and fairly treated?
I hope you read this Shahrezan!
Anak Bangsa Malaysia Baru,
If I may add hereto, a large number who hope they will be adjudged, by God, and not man, as Muslim, who do not desire the flavour of an Islamic state which has been fashioned by man, and not God.
August 15, 2008 at 10:41 am
Hmm.
ALL supremacists and racists and terrorists are BAD PEOPLE whether they are appear white, pink, yellow, brown, red, black or blue.
An apple is a fruit but not all fruits are apples. The “apple” is a specific example of the genus flora called “fruit”. And some apples are good and taste sweet while some are not good or tasty and can even have hidden worms inside. But some bad apples do not mean all apples, or even all fruits, are bad. See?
No one single race is all racist or all bad; only some people from within that race are. (Why? Duh..?.because they choose to be bad and/or shameless of course!)
Not all Irish “Catholics” and Northern Irish/British “Protestants” were IRA/other terrorists; only some were. But ALL of the BAD Irish and British terrorists were most definitely NOT following the religion or teachings of CHRISTIANITY.
Not all Afrikaners in South Africa or Americans in the USA hated Black and other non-white/alien peoples; but ALL Afrikaners who supported the apartheid system and ALL white Ku Klux Klan supremacists certainly did, whether they were Church-going or not.
So why blame good CHRISTIANITY because of bad, pretend “Christians”?
Similarly, not all Muslims are racists or Al-Qaeda/other terrorists; only some Muslims are. But ALL of the BAD Muslim racists and Al Qaeda/other terrorists are most definitely NOT following the religion or teachings of ISLAM.
So why blame good ISLAM for bad, pretend “Muslims”?
I could go on and give some more simple idiot-guides on Hindus or Indians or Chinese or Buddhists, but I’m not going to bother.
BTW, if there are any (duh-type) people out there who still think one should attack, blame and defile any sacred holy religion because of some of its deliberately bad or clueless and ill-informed followers, please get in touch straightaway as a scientific research team over here wants a sample of your brain matter for further research and analysis…..THANKS!
WE SAY YEAH!
August 15, 2008 at 11:07 am
Anak Bangsa Malaysia Baru,
Yes, Nik Aziz did say provided that he is a Muslim. But have you ever heard UMNO saying anything to the effect that the leader can be a non-Malay?
Did I not say that I’m not for PAS Islamic state agenda? I don’t agree with their agenda, but I respect their right to have it as an agenda.
So I don’t know why you’re attacking me about PAS Islamic state agenda when I never said anything about supporting it.
All I’m saying is that let’s all be fair in our criticisms. Not all in PAS are stinkers, contrary what some of you are saying.
I hope YOU read this, Anak Bangsa Malaysia Baru.
August 15, 2008 at 11:14 am
Haris,
So far, I haven’t seen any reason to praise Mr. Zulkifli Nordin. Don’t quite understand your comments.
The ‘praise’ I was alluding to was for YB Dzulkefli Ahmad, the Kuala Selangor MP who supported the forum, going against the statement of his President who opposed it.
August 15, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Dear Rajraman666
Thanks for your concern,my fellow anak bangsa Malaysia!Yes,I am much better today,thanks to,you are right-that papaya leaf but it tastes yuck!Anyway,it does the trick but it took me almost 12 days to recover.
MH58?For the sake of peace and harmony among the various races,the less we see and hear from him the better……right,my friend?
I like chopin,
Too right, you are
August 15, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Hadi Awang aspires to become the PM?! I rather vote for AAB…
August 15, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Funny that I like chopin should mention Mahaguru58.
Mahaguru58 is no different than his former friend MENJ. Twice I have posted comments questioning what he has said in relation to the Bar Council’s forum and the first time he allowed my comment then removed it and the second time (posted 24 hours ago) he did not even allow it through.
The comments were not insulting so he had no good reason to censor them, other than the fact that they showed Mahaguru58 to be nothing more than a SHAM.
I raised two issues with Mahaguru58:
First, I asked him about his stand on the ISA. The fact is that one the one hand he seems to agree with the suggestion that the Bar Council should be taken in under the ISA while he doesn’t think the same law should apply to Zulkifli Nordin. Which if true would make him a HYPOCRITE.
In any case, he is most definitely a HYPOCRITE because he censored my comments simply because he could not respond to them without coming across as a FAKE.
Second, I asked if he was merely ignorant or an outright liar because he was saying that the Bar Council did not try to engage with the Islamic authorities when they had:
1) a speaker who is a Muslim shariah lawyer who had represented one of the Islamic religious authorities in one of the religious conversion cases
2) a speaker from IKIM (who chose to withdraw) and
3) a speaker from JAIS (who chose to withdraw)
Since I have already pointed these facts out to him, but Mahaguru58 insists on perpetuating this misinformation, that squarely puts Mahaguru58 in the category of being a LIAR who, like Salahudin Ayub, owes the Bar Council (not to mention readers of his blog) an apology for his BIG FAT LIES.
And Haris, I hope you are not holding your breath for a reply from Mahaguru58 – because apart from being a LIAR, a HYPOCRITE and a FAKE he is probably TOO CHICKEN to respond to you.
P.S. I hope the visit to the ENT specialist went well today! Thought the alternative medicine had sorted the rhinitis out!
August 15, 2008 at 7:10 pm
It’s quite interesting to observe the recent controversies surrounding the Bar Council forum on religion.
What I would like to know though is would you fight for Malaysian atheists as vehement and passionately, for our rights to “unbelieve” in the god in which you believe?
August 15, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Chopin,
Take care,its not my secret i just read somewhere.
Anything bitter/yuck from natural thing is good.
I have smugled some plants from Indonesia for sore lungs.Its growing already.
Its worse – need to chew.
If anyone need ask the candleman to sms me,i will send over but lets its grow first.(tommorow i will talk to the sireh syrups to grow faster,plants listen to me,i am not making stories)
rajraman.BOTANIST.
August 15, 2008 at 9:13 pm
i will give my votes gazillion times if haris or RPK become prime minister.
August 15, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Dear Haris,
You may have also seen this article from The Star – http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/8/15/nation/22087620&sec=nation
I quote: “Saying that his (Salahuddin) duty at the “embracing Islam” forum was just to keep the peace, he BLAMED THE BAR COUNCIL FOR NOT EXPLAINING AHEAD THE OBJECTIVE of its meeting …” (my capitalized)
Watching Salahuddin in action personally from the Malaysiakini video that you posted, listening carefully to what he said, and then, reading this version in The Star, simply fills me with disgust!
He lied! And he is acting irresponsibly when he blames the Bar Council!
He was not there to keep peace. He along with the other speakers were there to actively feed “misinformation” to incite hatred to storm into the Bar Council meeting!
Worse is the Blame!
Before joining to incite hatred, he could have registered himself and attend the forum. Or he could have talked to the Bar Council to LISTEN FIRST to their version of the story. In short, he could have done the responsible thing. But he didn’t!
I’m afraid I simply do not trust this guy based purely on these 2 actions (lying on the reason he was there, as well as blaming others for his own fault).
This is deeply disappointing, when a person who profess to be guided by religion himself knows that his God knows that he has committed a sin at least twice, if not more.
Seng.
October 8, 2008 at 3:04 am
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