In his post today entitled ‘How should a judge endear him/herself to the Bar?’ , Rocky associated with Azmi Anshar’s response to Robert Lazar’s “If Rocky really wants to know, the Tun never really endeared himself as a friend of the Bar pre-1988 ….” and reproduced in his post, the following excerpt from Azmi’s piece :
“But to “endear as a friend to the Bar”? How should Salleh endear himself to the Bar as a friend? Play golf with lawyers? Lunch or dinner together? Go for holidays together? Rule everything in favour of the lawyers of the Bar?”
Since you asked, let me tell you, Rocky.
The greater number of the 12,600++ lawyers at the Bar, most of whom are not tainted by any connections with UMNO or any BN politicians, wouldn’t know one end of a golf stick from the other.
Not that they wouldn’t like to take up the game. It’s just that they can’t afford it.
What most of them would not do, though, even if they could afford it, is to wine and dine with judges.
Holidays together?
Don’t insult all the lawyers and judges, Rocky! Not every judge is a Chin and every lawyer a Lingam whose slimy tentacles reach into every corrupted crevice in UMNO.
You know the sort I mean, Rocky.
Why, some lawyers can’t even afford a holiday with the family!
You think I fib?
Go on, ask the missus next time you see her.
Of course, some of these lawyers are the authors of their own circumstance, foolishly hanging on to ideals of a free and unshackled press, free speech and free expression and, for less than a peppercorn, defending the same in court. More on these lawyers in a forthcoming post.
Let me tell you how these lawyers would want a judge to endear himself / herself to the Bar.
Treat lawyers with the same courtesy that the judges themselves expect be shown to them, hear impartially and devoid of any bias, and decide according to the law, without fear or favour.
No more, no less.
Don’t get me wrong, Rocky.
I am not for one moment suggesting that everything is hunky dory with the Bar and the Bench.
Just as there are slimeballs amongst the journos, editors and bloggers in the media business and blogosphere, respectively, who would pawn their souls in exchange for position, power and the posh lifestyle, so too, sadly, in the Bar and on the Bench.
And we know who they are, don’t we, Rocky?
Ashok
November 4, 2008
Now, that is certainly a hard hitting post, in defence of (honest and decent) lawyers. It has got to be a “siapa makan cili, dia rasa pedas” posting.
You are right haris. I have been told that there are amongst us lawyers, creeps who would sell their soul to the highest bidder…. but…. bloggers as well??? I wonder who they are Haris.. care to elaborate??
Ashok,
Do I really need to?
Would rather not.
su
November 4, 2008
“…foolishly hanging on to ideals of a free and unshackled press, free speech and free expression and, for less than a peppercorn, defending the same in court.”
I like these lawyers. Given the chance, I might be one too.
su,
You said : I might be one too.
Response : If my intuition serves me well, a damn fine one
teo siew chin
November 4, 2008
Wohhhhh Mr Haris – Bullseye !!!!
clearwater
November 4, 2008
As always, telling it as it is without fear or undue respect to overblown egos. You have my respect as a man of uncompromising principle.
Truth Shall Prevail
November 4, 2008
Ha Ha
Read that Rocky “slimeballs amongst the journos, editors and bloggers”
Kalau tak tau insaf biar saje hingga ke neraka.
Mamatetek cannot help you even then. He is already counting hours…
I respect you very much Haris Bhai.
art harun
November 4, 2008
Harris,
Azmi Anshar and Rocky deliberately chose to misunderstand Robert Lazar’s statement about Salleh Abas having not endeared himself to the Bar. Azmi even wrote:
“How should Salleh endear himself to the Bar as a friend? …. Rule everything in favour of the lawyers of the Bar?”
With respect to Azmi, that is an impossibility. A Judge cannot rule everything in favour of the lawyers as one party in every litigation has to lose. There is no such thing as both side to a litigation winning a case. That statement in itself is reflective of the mindset. It is almost as comical as some statements made by our so called leaders and Parliamentarians.
I was already practising when it all happened and so I think I am qualified to say a thing or two about Salleh Abas. First of all, allow me to say one thing. When DrM raped the judiciary I was a staunch supporter of the Bar and everybody else who had stood to fight it. But I did that not because I liked Salleh Abas. I, and everybody else, did that because we had wanted the judiciary to be independent. We did not fight for Salleh Abas. We fight fr the judiciary, for the seat which Salleh Abas had occupied. We would have done the same even if VK Linggam was the one who had been unjustifiably sacked by DrM! Because it was the seat and not the man.
Salleh Abas was not an angel himself. As a Lord President he was aloof and almost unapproachable. By unapproachable I didn’t mean to say that he had refused to meet lawyers in order to allow lawyers to bribe him. No. I have to say this because otherwise Rocky and Azmi may choose to deliberately misunderstand my statement. By unapproachable I mean to say that Salleh Abas was not proactive in making the relationship between the Bar and the judiciary any better. He was in fact seen to be arrogant.
Before Salleh Abas, the Coiurt had never bent the rule for the sake of the government. But it was Salleh Abas who started the ball rolling in Lim Kit Siang v UEM in which case he, among others, decided to limit the purview of public interest cases. In doing so he sets our administrative law back by almost 50 years then. In that case he held that an MP, Lim Kit Siang, had no locus standi to sue the government over the award of the PLUS highway to UEM. That was done by him in order to assist the government!
He was not so long ago questioned about this by a friend of mind in a public forum. All he could muster was “I was a conservative!”. He did not even deny it!
I have always maintained that that decision sent the wrong signal to DrM that the judiciary had shown the tendency of being a willing partner to the government. DrM even quoted that decision on his blog some time ago.
The rest, as they say, is history.
Some people do sell their souls for riches, powers or expected riches or powers. They change colours as soon as a new moon is sighted. And to these people I wish them all the luck.
Because fire is the devil’s only friend.
galadriel
November 4, 2008
Beautifully put. I had a friend who once said all sweeping statements are untrue, including this one.
Khairy complians abt being demonised. but hey, lawyers have been demonised for far longer, and worse. Here’s a joke.
“What do you call 20,000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea?” “Not enough.”
That is because there has been enough lawyers out there who were scumbags.
But then, like I told a friend of mine recently, if you wanna know the value of your lawyer, perhaps you should go to speak with the likes of Hanif Basri.
There are bad hats everywhere. Doctors can be crooks too. So can engineers. and the cost of their crookedness are also borne by the public.
Not to mention civil servants and their excesses.
The system in this country has tacitly encouraged lots of filth and corruption. It permeates every sector.
Yeah, so Lingam had his own fiefdom. Shafee Abdullah seems to be cut from the same cloth too.
But to run down the entire group seems to me quite immature. In embattled Pakistan, at the risk of being shot, the Pakistani lawyers rose as one against Musharaf when he went after that Supreme Court Judge Iftikar Mohd Chowdhury.
Many lawyers have been at the forefront of the fight for justice around the world, before and after that.
I take my hats off to such lawyers who get out of their comfort zones to champion causes that make them unpopular, just because it is the right thing to do.
blogreader
November 4, 2008
Beautiful!!
Love you for a reason, Haris, and this post is one of those reasons!
galadriel
November 4, 2008
and here’s a link to that story of how the Pakistani lawyers stood up to a military regime, standing in harm’s way, for justice.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/amnesty-magazine/spring-2008/state-of-emergency/page.do?id=1551004
koolgeek
November 4, 2008
This is entirely just my personal feel.
Ever since the Mahathirism come back phenomenon sweeping across the nation, Rocky seems to be very excited and daring now.
I hope he will not turn into one of those “I’m first today, Tun” people.
Ganesan
November 4, 2008
Words of wisdom ever and always from you. So refreshing to know that there are people like you, who is always fighting to do the right thing to all Malaysians without any bipartisan politics. Rocky was in the sheeps clothing and has always been a wolf.
drsaravananr
November 4, 2008
This is what separates you from the rest Haris,
Salute to you. Rocky should just put this issue to rest.
cheers
CPK
November 4, 2008
That cut to the quick (unless, perhaps, if you are a Rock.)
I must remember not to crack another lawyer joke again, for all the Haris Ibrahims, Malik Imtiazs, Zaid Ibrahims and Art Haruns of Malaysia.
CPK,
I could tell a few lawyer jokes which are real crackers, too!
Thing is, I know a joke when I hear one.
And I know when it’s not a joke.
ylcw
November 4, 2008
Dear Haris,
I have been “gerrrrram…” with this guy for so long …. finally someone tells him off!!
You have made my day! Thank you.
zul
November 4, 2008
Yes koolgeek is right…”salam Tun you are best I’m first” First in kissing a##?
Rocky is one of them.
Grow up Roc!
rider
November 4, 2008
In ‘The Godfather,’Mario Puzo said: “A lawyer with a briefcase steals more money than a hundred men with guns.” I want to be a lawyer too..!
rider,
You probably have also heard about the clever lawyer who dropped the cheque into the grave as it was being covered, no?
Well, the ‘honest’ fellow was refunding monies due to his recently deceased client!
kas
November 4, 2008
I agree with koolgeek’s
“I hope he will not turn into one of those “I’m first
today, Tun” people.”
I find it really amusing that people do that. You get the ‘what the …!!’ feeling.
These are perfect examples of dictotorial governance where populations are brain washed to think one man’s dream is good enough for all.
As for Rocky, he is too kind to nutcases like Azmi.
matkilat
November 4, 2008
Haris:
“foolishly hanging on to ideals of a free and unshackled press, free speech and free expression and, for less than a peppercorn, defending the same in court.”
Better a “fool” than a servant of a tyrant or a coward.
blogreader
November 4, 2008
Haha.. actually i was thinking maybe Rocky should take a break from blogging, take up a law degree, since he is so interested in this subject about the right and wrong between lawyers and judges.
I mean, Haris can have a say, but Rocky, you aint a lawyer but a real-world journalist who’s failed there, and retreated to becoming a virtual-world journalist. And now it seems you are failing too, Mr Ahiruddin Attan! Time for another retreat. But this time i dont know really know whereelse you could go, except what i’ve suggested above, go take up a law degree and try your luck to become a lawyer. Never too late, if you’re made for it! Who knows, maybe you might even end up becoming the CJ of Malaysia in the future.
But for now, I’m glad i’ve found Anil Netto, who’s been doing what you at first was doing. And so far, he’s been very professional as a virtual-world journalist.
So two sincere advice for you, Rocky:
1. Be a lawyer.
2. Learn from Anil Netto how to be a professional journalist!
mustafakanuar
November 4, 2008
Yes, Haris. You certainly Rocked the boat!
I think we get your drift here, and I think we know who ‘they’ are.
mustafakanuar,
An honour to have you drop in.
apapunboleh
November 4, 2008
Good one! Bravo!
We all know Rocky is never a neutral blogger from start.
He’s somehow alligned to quarters within UMNO.
mei1
November 4, 2008
Bravo, Haris & Harun!!
I’m just wondering why Rocky would have loved to nitpick issues nowadays, is he out of wit to update his blog hence creating all the insensible writings that even a lay person can differentiate what’s right or wrong & who’s good or bad.
If this kind of situation keeps going on, I reckon that someone else should replace him as the main person who represents the overall bloggers in the country.
sing lau
November 4, 2008
Perhaps our dear friend Rocky should consider having a new name : Wobbly or Buttery!
I concur with ‘apapunboleh’ –
We all know Rocky is never a neutral blogger from start.
He’s somehow alligned to quarters within UMNO.
That has always been my suspicions.
I suspect that with the imminent change of guards within UMNO, Wobbly’s fortune may be changing for the better!
NST’s suit against him may be dropped soon… and he may even be given a high post in one of those UMNO controlled media.
Helen Ang
November 4, 2008
Hug, Haris
& makkal sakthi with tears in my heart
I’m sharing one of the most resonant passages ever written in the English language, below:
______________
Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done,
on Earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
AND LEAD US NOT INTO MAHATHIRISM;
BUT DELIVER US FROM EVIL.
For thine is the kingdom,
the power, and the glory,
For ever and ever. Amen
Tun Perak
November 4, 2008
Is rocky doing an ezam? I noticed the obituries recently, the demise of one kali from the annals of jln riong, WONDER WHETHER THE VACANCY IS BEING EYED BY SOMEONE, how the leoperds don’t lose their spots.
TruthWillPrevail
November 4, 2008
R*cky is a paid blogger
Enough said
Semuaok
November 4, 2008
Harris & Rocky,
Stop dreaming, Malaysia is going no where. Here
is the scenario
UMNO advise the King
UMNO appoint the judge
UMNO control the parliament
UMNO appoint/control the AG
UMNO appoint/control ACA
UMNO appoint/control the polis/army
UMNO control Finance
UMNO take & hand out the dough
UMNO fucking the poor Malay
My advise CABUT
devilsadvocate
November 4, 2008
Bro,
Always use to think to myself who this Azmi Anshar is. I had a feel that he was trying to mimick Amir Muhamad whose grasp and articulation of the English language is something to envy about.
Anshar’s pieces on the other hand is what one would describe as a ‘A Level student trying to impress his examiner that his vocubalary knows no boundaries’ ones.
Having googled about him today – the fact that he was ex-Malay Mail sheds some light as to why his recent piece was worded as such and why Rocky was quick enought to draw glory to the piece.
One would expect some level of greater maturity from Anshar whom Im made to understand has over 20 years of experience.
Having been held liable for defaming the partnership of M/S Nazri Aziz Wong, would like to wish him the best of luck as I reckon Robert Lazar would definitely not take this lying down.
Anyways cheerio to you mate.
Would love to meet up with you one of these days.
BrightEyes
November 4, 2008
Haris, you can expect a reply from Rocky soon on his website. It’ll also be interesting to see how his future posts will be like on other separate issues & news as well.
wandererAUS
November 4, 2008
Some people are born daft, some pretend to be daft, which ever category they belong, your bombshell will hit them right into their miserable souls!
today
November 4, 2008
Hats off to you Harris!!!!A man like you get much respect.Sock it to that snake in the grass!!!
nstman
November 4, 2008
Harris, I am beginning to have misgivings about Rocky. Of late, he has gone off-tangent. He seems to veer towards the other side. He appears to be playing a double game. I am beginning to distrust this guy. The whole country was behind him when he faced suits by NST but now, I dont know. I hope I am wrong about him. All this talk about him going to NST and Najib assuming the throne make the whole situation queasy.
selvarajasomiah
November 4, 2008
Yes, we know Rocky is not a neutral blogger afterall. I get what you are gathering at Haris.
ronnie wee
November 4, 2008
Dear Sir I am indeed honoured to have the opportunity of being given a handshake by you at PJ Magistrate during RPK’s hearing. You, sir and RPK are the true TOWERING MALAYS who commands the respect of all true Malaysians.
FREE RPK AND ALL IN KAMUNTING….SAY NO TO ISA.
sally
November 4, 2008
I lke you, Haris!
kyle
November 4, 2008
Mr Haris,
I just move your blog address up in my list,
to the top level which includes MT, LKS, Screenshot,
DSAI, Anil and MI.
Rocky’s has been demoted many levels.
carmnio
November 4, 2008
come on guys…
rocky’s just blogging his thoughts.
we’re all entitled to our (for some, ever-changing or fickle) thoughts. i think we shouldn’t be too harsh on him.
if anything, he was once a comrade…surely that alone amounts to something.
i am sure it hurts a lot of us to see how rocky have “changed” and all that; but live and let live.
just like that bara-kuppu of another paper/column, he’s too entitled to his views.
i am sad too re rocky; at least i think rocky’s has crossed over to “the other side”. but if we are (were) true fans/followers/readers, we’d let him go in peace.
shaike
November 4, 2008
Is he still ur client or has he discharged u?
Amin
November 4, 2008
Beware of this Rocky chap. All indications point to a hidden agenda. High journalistic position under the shadowy patronage of the in-coming PM? Its all “cari makan” ploy, no?
sklee
November 4, 2008
I do not know either Rocky or Haris personally, though I have seen them physically, when they were in Penang.What I know about them is by visiting their blogs frequently.From what I know about them, Haris is by far a better person.Haris is sincere and has high ideals.I am,particularly, attracted by his ideal of “anak Malaysia”.Rocky, has proven to be a great disappointment.I am not sure I know his stand on many important issues.The man is not what he would like us to believe he is….a fighter for press freedom!Looks like he is slowly but “changing side!
sklee
November 4, 2008
I do not know either Rocky or Haris personally, though I have seen them physically, when they were in Penang.What I know about them is by visiting their blogs frequently.From what I know about them, Haris is by far a better person.Haris is sincere and has high ideals.I am,particularly, attracted by his ideal of “anak Malaysia”.Rocky, has proven to be a great disappointment.I am not sure I know his stand on many important issues.The man is not what he would like us to believe he is….a fighter for press freedom!Looks like he is slowly “changing side”!
alice
November 4, 2008
Sounds like Rocky Bru is going through some real brewing.
Hey Haris I checked out your blog today for the first time and find it totally impressive.
Wow you are quite a man.RARE BREED IN MALAYSIA.
KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK HARIS .
Kee Thuan Chye
November 4, 2008
Haris, I’m with you on upholding ideals. There are too few who care for that sort of thing these days. Keep it up!
Art Harun, well said.
yh
November 4, 2008
haris,
to the dot.
what has happened to rocky these days? think shortly you can be excused as solicitor to defend him coz aint no surprise there be no more suit against him. sad sad for me to even contemplate this way.
storm62
November 4, 2008
rocky is doing a “ezam”
bravo bro haris,
haris ibrahim is doing a “zaid ibrahim”
khalid ibrahim is doing a “anwar ibrahim”
Bodohland
November 4, 2008
I suppose even the “rocky” foundation of righteousness could be dislodged by the thundering waves of political contrivance and material enrichment.
Haris is here and he is the REAL DEAL!
viveg
November 4, 2008
Haris,
Just back after a loooooong assignment. Good to read someone finally telling off Rocky.. I think he’s been turned by the powers that be.
By the way, please help promote the upcoming ISA candle light vigil in Espalanade, Penang on 15th November at 8.00 p.m.
cruzeiro
November 4, 2008
Good post, Haris!
Now you’re talking, Mate! That’s how you’ve gotta sock it to small-minded mercenary scumbags ….
I don’t even peek into his blog these days for the simple reason that he doesn’t speak for credibility/reason anymore …ever since his “blog strike” days. The slant in his comments are just nauseating!
Somebody was saying, “I know Rocky, He’ll come around …”!
Looks like Rocky just keeps spinning round and round – I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that he may cash in on the “New Umno” ….
What was that again he is ?
Some Pro-tem Commitee chairman or something?
matt
November 4, 2008
Bro only a man with a conscience would talk this way as sometimes you ask yourself what is special about you,tell you what haris it is the fact that you have a soul.
vile-n-frenzy
November 5, 2008
its compellingly told, entertaining, sometimes hilarious and always illuminating. such is robert armitharaj lazar would not be seated on his throne as for now. it gets hotter by the days.
i wonder what this lazar has up in his noetic faculty…
and as for rocky, hope you learn to slither in a different mode.
haris, thanks….
terry
November 5, 2008
it getting obviour that rocky is holding grudge towards the bar, i couldn’t thinking he’s getting something by attacking the bar; look at the court cases and the police’s action in Malaysia, who, in fact, making fool of the legal system, it is Umno! There are numberless instances he can talk about how umnoist blundering, but he just ignores and pinpoint the bar, especialy the recent days articles he wrote, i smell some fish…may be he works somebody …
desperate housewife
November 5, 2008
Wow … this is definitely one of the best I have read so far, thanks Haris !! As for Rocky, I used to read his blog but then all of a sudden, the ‘atmosphere’ of his blog changed and didn’t feel quite right … you know what I mean. I hope that Rocky will trace his steps back to where he was before.
Socky
November 5, 2008
Sock it to Rocky, Haris! Ali vs Tyson… Hanuman vs King Kong… I’d put my money on you any day. Btw, thanks for writing that lucid 7-page letter to those three BN panjandrums. I posted the entire thing on my blog! Admirable lucidity.
sheriff
November 5, 2008
Rocky has gone in a direction that only he can understand. He appears to be bent on alienating those who have shared his ideals earlier.
Lyn
November 5, 2008
I quote what a real writer is …..”One who is read by thousands of people, but not only that, one whose writings make people react, on reading them, they are moved, they cry, they shout, they revolt sometimes.”
Thanks for your efforts in trying to champion our course TOGETHER…..
artchan
November 5, 2008
rocky a slime ball???…no no..well..maybe.
gunnfan
November 5, 2008
Rocky = Mahatir = UMNO = ISA
kudin
November 5, 2008
Haris, apasal bila kita buat loan rumah, kena bayar fee peguam banyak betul. Apa yg peguam2 ni buat? Setakat tukar particular & print template pun charge mahal juga? Saya tengok dalam TV dan baca dalam suratkhabar, selalu orang marah2 (orang miskin macam saya) pada developer bila rumah yg dibeli tak siap. Mana peguam dia orang? Peguam selalu ingat nak tegakkan keadilan konon, tapi kalau dapat untung pada diri sendiri, tindakan yg zalim pun dapat diterima juga.
vile-n-frenzy
November 5, 2008
i think people in here could write better articles than some people, only wishing to know what comes out from the steam room.
a fact is a fact=GRUDGE!
rocky simply doesnt know what to write. neither is he friendly either.
i m trying to understand you haris for saying these: -
“Don’t get me wrong, Rocky.
I am not for one moment suggesting that everything is hunky dory with the Bar and the Bench.”
if rocky is wrong, he is completely wrong.
Haris, no matter what, we are behind you.
CHEERS
vile-n-frenzy,
Don’t mind me saying, but me thinks it would be wrong to be behind anyone ‘no matter what’.
Dangerous, my friend
green hornet
November 5, 2008
In any profession there will always be bad apples only interested in one thing.Money and power!
farida
November 5, 2008
Haris, I take it you are no longer Rocky’s lawyer? Because NST has decided to hug Rocky and quash the case?
farida,
Quite the contrary.
To-date, I have not received any instructions that I have been discharged.
And until so discharged, I shall continue to act in the best interest of my client.
vile-n-frenzy
November 5, 2008
haris,
in reply to your reply to my post, i must state this as a matter not prejudicial to us both but for the betterment of everyone.
i write out of my conscience and i replied using my conscience and not my knee cap. i cannot afford going to bed tossing around till the wee hours of the morning knowing the fact that my soul is afflicted with non-chalance, be it malice aforethought.
i know where you stand, and i agree with your cause. and it is acknowledged day and night.
your remark, i must say a reply to my post is definitely to protect me in some ways.
i must express my immense gratitude to you.
again, i support you CHAMPIONING this cause TOGETHER.
vile-n-frenzy,
I thank you for your support in this cause.
Malai
November 5, 2008
Hi Harris,
There are at least 2 controversial Chin of the judiciary; I’ll loath it if you meant the good one; in any event, the public may read it to meant the good one hence tarnish the wrong Chin. In short, could you use another name instead?
gobloking
November 5, 2008
You spoke out loud what my heart heard but my mind dare not believe.
For some months now I thought I must be the few who are off their Rockers.
Thank you for restoring my sanity Haris.
aiyomanaboleh
November 5, 2008
Haris,
He and his gang was looking for a fight, you responded with reasons.
Johnny Chiam
November 6, 2008
Dear Haris
I was so confused reading Rocky’s blog until I came to your post and those comments here.
Barvo Haris for being the person that you are !
wak segen
November 6, 2008
If you guys are not daft, Rocky has never been on your side.
Rocky is an all out anti-Paklah and cronies guy and this is a classic case of ‘The enemy of your enemy is your friend’.
But now the enemy is gone so what goes? The enemy’s enemy is your enemy?
Nowander Umno and BN been ruling for the past 50 years and maybe the next 50.
With support for the opposition coming from you guys, BN will continue to win elections by default.
Take my word for it.
Peace Bros!!!
berakobama
November 6, 2008
Hi Haris,
I was shocked to learn that Rocky is your client and that your are his lawyer. And then I found out that you had been kind enough to take up his case pro bono when he was sued by the newspaper company.
I wonder if you would cast aspersions on Rocky as you did freely in this posting if Rocky was a paying client? If he was paying you, say, a million bucks to represent him?
I thought so too. No shame in that, Haris. You can still do the right thing and discharge yourself.
That way, you even the playing field between the two of you.
ylchong
November 6, 2008
haris:
I know you from Blogsworld, similarly I know Rocky Better from blogsworld because I was acquainted with him when we wer both at MSM.
If you are still acting as counsel to Rcky in his defamation suit filed by NSTP, don’t you think this very public display of “adversarial” post/s (I added the ass as there was a similar adversorial Post, I stand corrected…)
and WHY should eaders of blogposts ACT as assesors of two Bloggers as if this platform were some contest ala The Amrican Idol.
I respect your writings on topics divorced from issues involving a client in your capacity as a lawyer; I too respect a fellow blogger Rocky also waearing the hat as AllBlogs President.
I was harboring this reluctance to “comment”on reading your first “spat” with Rocky, but on reading this second one, I penned this comment quite spontaeiously for what it’s worth. Reagrds, YL, Desi
anna brella
November 6, 2008
A somewhat harsh but wholly fair and kick ass post as usual Haris, so here’s some brownies from me.
But I have to disagree with your view that it is foolish to hang on to ideals. In my view, Life just isn’s worth anything without them.
Incidentally, speaking of lawyers, is the Bar’s Robert Lazar in any way related to the Bench’s Augustine Paul?
“Imagine Power To The People” John Lennon.
anna brella
November 6, 2008
Sorry, meant to say in the posting made at 6.36am:
para 1: ….have some brownies from me, and
para 2: ….Life just isn’t worth…..
Thanks.
vile-n-frenzy
November 6, 2008
augustine paul?
a little about our infamous augustine paul. augustine paul a/l sinnapen is from somewhere called batu gajah perak. studied in sultan yussof school in batu gajah. thereafter University of Malaya in Singapore.
somewhere in 1969, he joined the judicial and legal service..somewhat a magistrate and subsequently a president of the sessions court. at present federal court judge.
dubbed the king of evidence, he has written books entitled-evidence: practice and procedure. the only case that was not mentioned is DSAI’s case.
but i doubt so that he is the king of evidence.
anyhow, that fella is not related to the lazar fella
carmnio
November 6, 2008
to ” anna brella Says:
November 6, 2008 at 6:36 am”
“gimme some truth” j. lennon
that’s more like it.
and “…life is what happens you while you are busy making other plans…”.
Helen Ang
November 6, 2008
I DON’T THINK SO, ‘AMERICAN IDOL’ LAH …
_______________________________________
My response to ylchong (Nov 6 at 1.59am) requires a brief backgrounder.
Chong, or nicknamed Desi, is my colleague. I had in fact alerted him to Haris’ post on Teresa Kok’s defamation suit to be picked by the Centre for Policy Initiatives (CPI) website. As CPI editor, Desi felt that in the interest of fairness and balance, Rocky’s response should be featured as well — which was conscientious of him.
I do not think that the adversarial posts stand in stead of any popularity contest between Haris and Rocky, even though the followers of both blogs have pitched their support behind one or the other. The posts were really a contestation on issues.
Not knowing enough about the Salleh Abbas case, I shall refrain from comment on Round #2 but I will touch on the first divergence respecting the media matter, the salient components of which are: Utusan Malaysia, Teresa Kok and Chamil Wariya.
I am in agreement with Haris saying ‘Easy to say ‘Dont’ sue’ when the shit’s not on your head!’ I disagree with Rocky’s posturing as a press freedom defender viz. Utusan’s right to publish.
A media monitor might have taken on Rocky’s post to deconstruct but Haris lending his legal mind to the interpretation of ‘defamation’ was a value-add. At People’s Parl, ‘Easy to say’ drew 160 comments – a hot post. Rocky Bru’s was aflame with 461 comments.
If any aspersions arose or were directed by readers at Rocky as a result, it is regrettable. I personally respect Rocky’s prerogative to support whomever politician or political party he’s inclined to. It’s also perfectly legitimate for his writing to favour, again, whichever side, as moreover Rocky Bru is a blog (and not a free newspaper claiming to be objective).
However, it was necessary for Haris to have countered Rocky’s take on the Utusan issue. Why so is best summed up with this comment by Joshua (Oct 14 at 10:29pm) who wrote: “I almost ‘fell’ for Rocky’s post too until I read your post here.”
Rocky and Haris are both shapers of public opinion, particularly in blogosphere. Rocky though has recognition as All-Blogs pro-tem president. Plus he is known to, and interviewed by both local and international media, and his long involvement (or contacts) in the industry permits him more avenues and public visibility than Haris. By the same token, Teresa has few avenues to defend herself. Her ‘Sassy MP’ blog and ‘The Rocket’ are no match for Utusan’s reach.
A last point (for now), and also alluded to by Desi as well as explicated in Rocky’s ‘In defence of me’ Oct 17 posting deserves my comment.
Rocky contended, “Haris, however, is part of a legal team representing Jeff Ooi and I in an on-going defamation suit against us by the NSTP & 4 Others. It is, therefore, unreasonable to expect me to be at loggerheads with my own lawyer publicly on a matter that surely shares some of the merits of my own court case.”
Rocky comparing Teresa’s entanglement with Utusan to his case is, in my opinion, spurious.
The tango between Rocky and NSTP was more a corporate matter and Rocky furthermore a former staff of the media group. There are things played out behind-the-scenes in the NST boardroom which we are not cognizant of.
But let us look at what’s happened to Teresa which is public record.
She was ISA-ed. She has had Molotov cocktails thrown into her family home compound. Police reports filed against her; a former Menteri Besar-cum-Umno strongman as nemesis. She was model to an assassination ‘fictional’ story by the same newspaper that has carried out a sustained campaign of vilification against her. This newspaper’s vendetta extends to ‘poetic licence’ on name-calling her ‘Ratu Anjing’.
As a woman, I can sympathize with Teresa when she complained that Utusan deliberately splashes the most unflattering photographs of her to make her look as ugly as possible.
Now compare with Rocky’s defamation case. Nobody’s accusing him of being anti-Malay and anti-Islam which carries dire consequences here in Malaysia. Neither does his case have any ramifications of heightening race tensions. NST has not made hordes of people angry at Rocky like Utusan has done Teresa.
[The Chamil Wariya aspect of the imbroglio requires a standalone article which I will write soon for CPI and submit the link to People’s Parl later.]
As a parting note, allow me to say that the rich vein of opinions contributed by readers at both blogs has been beneficial and enlightening. These contestations are not an attack on a man but a challenge to his ideas.
Having differing persuasions is okay (only that in our country we’ve not yet fostered a culture to disagree civilly). Nonetheless, taking the lead, I expect Desi and me will be sharing our usual tea break of teh tarik and vadai next week.
Ahmad JB
November 6, 2008
One of the better posting I came across at Rocky’s Bru, that really address this ‘kemelut’, which admittedly, find many of us talking about it out there, since you being part of his defence team. In case you missed out on this Haris, I repost:
********************************************************
Dear bru,
I’m not that keen to comment on what you have written as it seemed to have received exhaustive responses from both sides of the coin.
However, I do wish to comment on what Haris Ibrahim have written about the issue which was reproduced here by some of your commentators.
Firstly, I have always found Haris to be very self-righteous to the extend of being nauseating.
If you do no believe me, read his postings – they are all about how wrong everyone else are and how he is unlike them.
Even in his latest posting, he was truly trying to portray himself as the idealistic lawyer and due to that is incapable to even afford a decent holiday (this however seemed to be disputed by someone who pointed out that LA is the destination for a winter holiday or something to that effect).
But to me, ideals do not confine itself to merely fighting for universal principles of justice.
Upholding professional ethics and being honest about oneself are equally important especially when one chooses to ride the moral highhorse and pass moral judgements on all and sundry.
My point is very simple – Haris is Rocky’s lawyer (regardless whether he is paid or it is a pro bono case).
If there is anything that Rocky did which he disagreed especially pertaining to freedom of speech and expression (Haris is defending Rocky on a libel case) he (Haris) should not publicly dispute or criticise Rocky.
If he did, obviously Haris felt that Rocky’s version of freedom of expression and speech is flawed.
If Haris finds Rocky’s version of these freedoms flawed, then he has already cast doubt as to Rocky’s standing pertaining to his understanding of freedom of speech and expression.
If Haris doubts Rocky’s commitment to these freedoms and implied that Rocky may be flawed in practising them (or Rocky is one of the slimeballs that Haris mentioned in his postings and he seemed to imply that Rocky is one going by the last line of his posting) then obviously Haris should no be defending Rocky in the defamation case he is facing.
Of course it can be argued that the worst criminal have a right to a defence counsel, but the defence counsel should not be one who had publicly denounced or cast aspersion to his client.
This is exactly the situation – Haris has publicly cast aspersion to Rocky’s character and standing in a public domain and yet he continues to be Rocky’s counsel.
If Haris is so self-righteous and ethical, he would have disqualified himself from representing Rocky before he ventured into public domain to cast aspersion on Rocky.
Probably this is what Haris is trying to lead to – to get Rocky to sack him instead of disqualifying himself.
After all, it is a pro bono case and Haris will not lose anything but instead a lot to gain as he can now focus on cases which he collect fees and probably help in paying his future holidays.
If Rocky sacks him, then Rocky would look the ungrateful one and Haris the martyr.
Many will then forget or ignore the fact that Haris was the one who had been unethical and should have had the moral conviction to disqualify himself in the first place whether Rocky agrees with it or not.
After all, when Haris offered himself to take up Rocky’s case pro bono, it was with the awareness that the case was something which would make him popular (lest people forgot, nobody was even aware that such a self-righteous pri@$* existed nor did anyone care. He rode on Rocky’s populaity, started blogging, obviously with Rocky’s encouragement and started getting attention in the public domain).
Now that he has managed to gain public attention and a following of among an undiscerning flock who failed to see Haris for what he actually is, it was time to abandon Rocky. What better way than taking potshots leading to an untenable situation which would force Rocky to sack him.
Haris’s way of doing things reminds one of the Karpal/Anwar legal liaisons which raised some questions to Karpal’s understanding of professional and personal ethics as a lawyer.
It had been written in numerous blogs about how Karpal had, prior to the sacking of Anwar in September 1998, accused the latter of sexual indiscretions and claimed that he had proof in his hand of Anwar’s sexual misdeeds.
It was said tha Kapal made these revelations during a DAP convention in early 998 and challenged the then Prime Minister Dr Mahathir to act against his deputy.
Finally when Anwar was sacked and subsequently charged in court for sodomy, Karpal came to the fore, taking up the defence role and presented himself as the champion of Anwar’s cause.
Again, it can be argued that Anwar have every right to be defended and Karpal was merely extending such services, the fact remains that Karpal was among those who had publicly accused Anwar of the very act he is now defending.
By right, Karpal should disqualify himself as there ae those who believed what he had said about Anwar.
But obviously for Karpal, why should he think about ethics and values and miss out on a case that would propel him to the popular public front.
The situation between Haris and Karpal are probably on the reverse – Haris took up Rocky’s case and became popular and then when he had no more use of Rocky, went public and cast aspersion on Rocky and hoping that Rocky would eventually sack him.
In Karpal’s case, he publicly cast aspersion on Anwar, pushed for his prosecution and when Anwar did get prosecuted, Karpal came forward as the hero, rode on Anwar’s popularity to the hilt (and still doing so) and latched on to him for as long as he could. And Karpal can be expected to abandon Anwar when he (Anwar) is of no consequence.
Such is the likes of Haris and Karpal, both very self-righteous and would go to whatever end to gain that popularity.
Karpal discovered and perfected the art a long time ago and Haris is fast learning.
Haris may be a hero to some but for those who care to discern – he is nothing but a mediocre lawyer who needed to play to the gallery and pretend to be the beacon for values and ethics. It is done to gain an extra inch or two so that he get noticed.
He who will never engage Haris even if being paid to do so.
berakobama
November 7, 2008
Why is Helen Ang responding to Desiderata’s complaint about Haris’ acts against the interest of his client?
Is Helen Ang also Rocky’s counsel?
Lin
November 7, 2008
Well said, Haris. We all know who they are.
anna brella
November 9, 2008
vile-n-frenzy:
Thanks for your statement about Augustine Paul not being related to Robert Lazar. The question was prompted by my awareness that he has a lawyer-SIL called Robert ?.
carmnio:
Sorry I am unclear as to what you are trying to convey in your post which refers to my earlier post.
Truth is an ideal too as I am sure you are aware.
John Lennon was a lover of non-bull-ordure axiomatic truth, and I guess that’s why he sang “gimme some truth” and “life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans”.
“Imagine Power To The People” John Lennon.
Zul Haron
November 9, 2008
To all readers of PP,
Its not only Rocky who is alligned to mahathir-umno, his partner Nuraina Samad has also been totally converted.
Soon they will be big players in the MSM.
tharieq.dhiyauddin
November 10, 2008
The Successors of Zion Plan.