Many, many years back, in the Bar Room at the KL High Court in the Sultan Abdul Samad building, I was smoking.
It was the fasting month.
Sharifah came up and reprimanded me, and suggested that if I had to smoke during the fasting month, I should do it in the toilet.
I replied that if she could guarantee me that God could not see me smokng in the toilet, I would.
That was when I, too, believed that saum ( the Arabic word in the Holy Qur’an that is translated to mean fast ) was a command to abstain from food, drink and conjugal relations during the daylight hours of the month of Ramadhan.
I don’t believe that anymore.
What I believe now is unimportant.
What’s important is that I have the right to hold to my beliefs, just as those who believe as I once did, and who will dutifully fulfill their fast this month, are entitled to theirs.
I will respect their beliefs.
They must respect mine.
Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno had three glasses of beer. For that, she was fined RM5,000 and has been sentenced by the Syariah Court to be caned.
Six strokes.
Why?
Muslims believe it to be a sin to drink alcohol.
I don’t share this view.
“Those who believe and do righteous good deeds, there is no sin on them for what they ate, if they fear God and believe and do righteous good deeds, and again fear God and believe, and once again fear God and do good deeds with perfection. And God loves the good-doers” – Surah 5 verse 93 of the Holy Qur’an.
I look at this verse and I’m not too sure that Kartika has committed a sin, but even if it is a sin…
“Tell those who believe to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of God. It is for Him to recompense each people according to what they have earned” – Surah 45 verse 14 of the Holy Qur’an.
God’s syariah, as I’ve come to understand it, enjoins us to forgive the wrongdoer.
And so, even if Kartika has done wrong, is caning her the way to set her on the right path?
“You shall invite to the path of God with wisdom and compassionate enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who is deviating from His path, and He knows best who are guided.” – Surah 16 verse 125 of the Holy Qur’an.
To those who are minded to send in comments contradicting my viewpoint here, I’ll be obliged if you abided by the verse I’ve just quoted, and be mindful of the verses that follow below.
“O God, Creator of the heavens and earth. Knower of all that is open and concealed, it is You that will judge between Your servants in matters on which they differed.” – Surah 39 verse 46 of the Holy Qur’an.
“If they do wrangle with you, say ‘God knows best what you are doing. God will judge between you on the Day of Judgment concerning your differences.” – Surah 22 verses 68 & 69 of the Holy Qur’an.
To those of you observing the fast this Ramadhan, I pray that God gives you the strength and patience to see you through your religious obligations.
kati
August 22, 2009
What defiles a man is not what going into the mouth but what come out from the mouth.
Kalambong
August 22, 2009
I am commenting on a thread that is Islamic, but I am not a Muslim
My only comment is from the story of those who lives in the glass houses — stop throwing stones
And if those who believe they are better Muslims than that lady from Singapore, so much better that they can NOT forgive (if that Singaporean lady did commit a sin, that is) her sin, my sincere hope that the stones they cast would not land on their own glass dwellings
That is all I have to say
Amused
August 22, 2009
You are saying that you do not fast anymore during Ramadan?
Got to be careful bro.
Authorities are known to pounce on anyone ‘suspected’ of deviating from rules and laws – regardless of whether an offence was actually committed or not.
They have a quota to meet.
Do not contribute to such quota.
Amused,
I saum as I understand
anonymous
August 22, 2009
If other religions can let people to practise their respective religions or beliefs without “policing”, why can’t Islam? This is what I cannot understand. Can some knowledgeable Muslims offer some explanations in this? Muslims themselves have the duties to disseminate true teaching of Islam to the non-Muslim world to avoid wrong perceptions that we have on Islam.
anonymous,
Islam, as I understand it, does not call for moral policing as we see happening today.
This is a call by the Islam-as I say- ists.
anonymous
August 22, 2009
It is not fair to assume all Malays as Muslims, Haris. Say if a non-Muslim Malay lady from from Indonesia is caught drinking alcohol in Malaysia, she can be charged for this offence, as by definition of Malaysia Constitution, she is a Malay and she is a Muslim. Where is the fairness?
I found this definition very weird. I can’t find anywhere else in this world any other race is being defined in constitution.
matrempit
August 22, 2009
simple.
she’s indonesian in the first place so our constitution doesnt bind on her.
she can drink whatever drinks she wants.
harun
August 22, 2009
what a stupid question.
she is Indonesian, what Indonesian lady got to do with malaysia
constitution?
stupid to the core.
Joann
August 23, 2009
I totally agreed that it is not fair to assume all Malays as Muslims. I also have to say that it is not fair to assume all Arabs as Muslims too. I’m saying this from experience. I have been in situation in M’sia where my surname and race has gotten me into some trouble. I am born a Roman Catholic (RC), my parents are RC, my grandparents also RC… we jz got stuck with an Arab surname by default of being a descendant of some Arab immigrant hundreds of years ago.
Once in KL (long time ago in the early 90′s)I have been accused of wearing my cruxifix as a “badge of convenience” for drinking!I felt so insulted because I was a tourist in your country and so much more insulted because it came from some religious authority… where’s the respect for other religion? Do you know how ridiculous it was to call back S’pore and ask for my Baptism certificate to prove that I’m not a Muslim?
I still travel to M’sia but now I travel with a photocopy of my baptism cert just in case….
sing
August 22, 2009
Moral policing creates a multi-billion dollar business! ‘Islam’ this and ‘Islam’ that is a very lucrative business.
anonymous
August 23, 2009
Harun,
Go back read the Constitution again.
Prem Das
August 22, 2009
In the “Holy Quran”, I find that sura after sura describes hypocracy to be the most heinous of condition a human can aspire to.
Hence it is clear why there shall be no compulsions. Compelling a man to be something he is not, through fear and punishment, is the surest way of making him a hypocrite.
The sin shall not be his.
xtv3
August 22, 2009
salam dear bro
to be fair ive been reading your page for quite sometimes.
even while i do admit that your views in islam is quite liberal i still read your posting bcos i consider u as a good lawyer and of course u know ur stuff.
but when u tried to write something abt islam, a subject that obviuosly u dont know much, will lead to further confusion among readers be it muslim or non muslims.
im sure ur the supporter, of the fact, anyone should be able to give an opinion abt islam, as islam does not only belong to ustaz or ulama to elaborate and discuss.
hey since i watch boston legal n previuosly l.a. law, i should be able to write my opnion abt the law.
sure i can, but whether my opinion is valid let alone a good one, or even reflects the level of my intelligence its different matter.
just because we read the quran translations, of coz u can give ur opinion abt islam,
but again whether its a valid or a good one or just reflecting ur knowledge of the religion.
im just amazed that u did use this ayat “let there be no compulsion in religion” sural al baqarah verses 256.
forget the fact, its not even a complete ayat/verse, forget the facts, why the verses was reveal to the prophet saw, by allah swt. at that point of time, forget all these.
hey its a true translation of the quran, so lets use it, repeatedly if its possible, as propagate by umno scholars.
what abt this surah mauun 107, verse 4, “so woe to the worshippers” so lets use this ayat, lets not pray.
again, just overlook the whole surah, just hold on to this ayat, and we lets not pray.
dont worry abt the tafseer, hey its an ayat from the quran.
AND THAT IS THE TRANSLATIONS.
dont worry, WHY allah reveal to us the ayat, just forget WHEN allah reveal this ayat.
this is what happened when u take literal translation of the quran.
or just bcos i love watching boston legal and l.a law, i believe i have the every right to say something abt the law. no matter how stupid i might look, but hey its my right.
recently someone whom i believe share ur belief, said that, hey if he goes to the doctor because he got a headache, and the doctor recommend him to go for surgery, he have the every right to not to listen n seek 2nd opnion
using the same anology, if one goes to an ustaz, and ask the ustaz, should he abstain from everything during ramadhan, even smoking, well the quran said just eat n drink…… the 1st ustaz will say yes, u must abstain from smkoing as well.
u might not like that opinion, since the islam does not only belong to ustaz and ulama, hey everybody can give an opinion. maybe we can asked the mechanic to translate the surah al baqarah verses183.
hey the mechanic who have read the quran translation, might agree with u by saying, saum is just abstaning fr drinking and eating.
hey lets even go to this mechanic again, because maybe he has an opinion abt what to do with the headache. because surely he suffered headcahe before.
hey this mechanic can even give u some legal advice bcos his favourite show is boston legal and l.a law.
brother …..
if u find hard to believe the opinion of the doctor who suggested u might need surgery for your headache, of coz u have the every right to seek for 2nd opinion.
but u seek another doctor’s opinion, and maybe he diasagree with the 1st doctor, or maybe u do need surgery, because the headache turn to be cancerous.
dont go to the mechanic, because he might just use the drill machine on your head
malek
sampalee
August 22, 2009
Hypocracy like half Truth is more dangerous than bare falsehood, as it perpetuate evil under the cover of truth.If muslim can be honest with themselve,it surpasses all the pretenders display of being pious.
All expression of man behaviours are God’s will.Otherwise please explain what ‘Inshaallah’ mean.The kithab does not lie and the fact stated have only ONE meaning.If one have no choice,then what thus one do?Simply submit the Ego[intellect]and not the Ego’s possession.Without the ego to claim ownership,all thing return to Tuhan[as all thing come from him anyway]
The kithab wants all of us to realise the Truth and not to punish anyone for not knowing the truth or not wanting to know the truth.Tuhan is unconditional love.
bemused
August 22, 2009
Heard one muslim telling the other when he tried to correct his so called erronous ways….
“Can you guarantee that you will be my defence counsel when I am facing judgement when I die ? Or else shut up!
bill
August 22, 2009
Haris,
1. Why the **** u would like to show u were once baD n others can b like u ? Hey *******, as Saum is wajib for u n the ummat before u, so **** u man belittling Allah’s command!
2. Kartika Dewi wants and demands to be whipped. She has insaf n wants to fulfl her duty- so why the **** did u not mention her wishes?
Kau ini memang celaka sial punya orang. Benda yang Allah syarie kan u still want to Argue ! **** u haris Ibrahim.
Kalambong
August 24, 2009
Do you really need to resort to vulgar words to get your point across, especially on a subject related to religion?
Do you know what you are doing is exactly what Haris is talking about — By cursing, you are demeaning you own religion, whichever it is !!!!
densemy
August 22, 2009
… or you could ignore all the verses and act like a tolerant, compassionate liberal minded individual capable of making his/her own decisions based on the information available to you TODAY
domino
August 22, 2009
Drinking liquor is a crime under Islamic law and thus she was fined and ordered to be canned.
How about gambling and prostituition? If you care to look around, there are thousands of Muslim buying Sports Toto, Magnum and 1+3D every week. What happens? Can the government close all these outlets and take away the licenses?
How about some Bumi corporation owning hotels that operates a massage parlor cum fark house? Can all these be closed?
How about the many Muslims working inside the Genting casino. The auxillary policeman and women? They are part and parcel of the organization that promote gambling!
How?
Bob
August 24, 2009
U highlight something very critical.
Does this mean the majority race of this country will not be able to work in Hotels? in Genting Highlands? in Carlsberg or GAB?
Guys are you thinking with your brains?
PLEASE BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR RESPONSE. But we are talking about thousand’s of Moslem men and women who are going to be made unemployed.
Selangor is going to fall to BN come next election.
308 was a beautiful dream, and RPK promised that it will be a fair story. Guess what, I cannot keep quiet if hundred’s of my cousins are to loose their jobs becoz of their religion.
Sorry, NOT ACCEPTABLE.
rakyat
August 22, 2009
Good one, sependapat dgn tuan
The Creepslayer
August 22, 2009
I am reminded of an incident involving Almarhum ayahanda.
He was having a glass of Scotch while chatting with an ulama. When the time came for Zohor prayers, ayahanda, who never missed a prayer, put down his glass and excused himself. “But Tuanku!”, exclaimed the ulama, how can you pray when you just had Scotch?
Ayahanda looked the ulama straight in the eye and said calmly and confidently “Whether or not God accepts my prayer, I think, that is between me and God.”
The dumbstruck ulama was left, to state the obvious, speechless.
vsp
August 22, 2009
PAS leader, Nik Aziz, likened Umno’s brand of Islam to plastic flowers, counterfeit money and fake identity cards. And UMNO was incensed claiming that Nik Aziz said that the Islamic teachings of Umno would not enable the party’s supporters to go to heaven. Both observations are uncannily accurate.
It is an accepted fact that UMNO is corrupt. This is not Nik Aziz’s imagination or the idle talk of the Opposition. This fact was made more credible by UMNO themselves: almost all of UMNO leaders like Mahathir, Tengku Razali, Ahmad Rithauddin had lamented that UMNO is racked by corruption with a few exceptions like Khir Toyo, Ali Rustam and Ahmad Ismail who still thought that UMNO is still an angel. Not only corruption, but murder, lust and a host of unIslamic practices seem to be the staple diet of UMNO. UMNO Islam is dedicated to the worship of power, money and the lust of the flesh.
If Nik Aziz’s or Muyiddin’s statements were to be compared to what the Koran says, then Nik Aziz is 100% correct to say that those who practice UMNO’s brand of Islam would not enter the gate of heaven. UMNO is just like the Pharisees who having seen the miracles of Jesus Christ still refused to acknowledge the truth because they were afraid that they would lose their authority over interpretation of their religion.
al-sadr
August 22, 2009
Thou you shall not draw a comparison between GOD’s law and humans made law.There are a big differences. But anyway if sinners do remorse and repent , there shall always be away ,. because HE is the most gracious and most mercyful thus our maker knows of our weaknesses from the very beginning
pahlawanvolunteers
August 22, 2009
URGENT APPEAL TO ALL MALAYSIANS – URGENT ACTION NEEDED:
Malaysia, Stop Whipping and End Corporal Punishment for All Offences
http://pahlawanvolunteers.wordpress.com/2009/08/22/malaysia-stop-whipping-and-end-corporal-punishment-for-all-offences/
Isa Manteqi
August 22, 2009
Yes Prem Das, and this is stated in the clearest terms in the Holy Quran : “There is no compulsion in religion” The trouble is, most (mostly self-appointed) interpreters of Islam choose to overlook this.
Ling
August 22, 2009
Man has hijacked religion, in both Islam and Christianity, for his own ends.
sharath
August 22, 2009
Mr.Harris, this judgment has given chance to so many other countries… to mention Malaysia`s governance at par with Taliban rule.
d`nt u think it is going to affect malysia`s tourism very badly in the comming months
sing
August 22, 2009
Haris, I am a Christian, and will own you a Brother.
Thus saith the Lord Jesus Christ,
14 “And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. Mark 7
“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.”
lakshy
August 22, 2009
Politics has spolied the true meaning of the religion.
ibrahim
August 22, 2009
Haris
Do not let these ‘form over substance’ folks bring you down, nor allow it to drive a wedge between you and our creator. Have faith, God shall be there for those of us who believe in him.
sing
August 22, 2009
“I replied that if she could guarantee me that God could not see me smoking in the toilet, I would.”
This reply is most revealing: this man has the holy fear/reverance of the Living God who sees all things. May the God of heaven bless this God-fearing man. A man who knows that God is omniscience will be a self-governing man – distinguishing him from others who need to be policed by self-righteous religious scumbags.
Concerning the great virtue of the fear of the Lord:
Ps 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Ps 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Pr 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Pr 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Pr 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Pr 10:27 The fear of the LORD prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened.
Pr 14:26 In the fear of the LORD is strong confidence: and his children shall have a place of refuge.
Pr 14:27 The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.
Pr 15:16 Better is little with the fear of the LORD than great treasure and trouble therewith.
Pr 15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.
suresh kumar
August 22, 2009
I see that most of the faithful who observe fasting during ramadan do not know its true meaning. One can see teenage young couples having ordered their buka puasa meals half hour before time sitting together at a table holding hands, smelling each other and caressing. Couples shopping are hip to hip in embrace whilst claiming that they are fasting by not eating and drinking during the day hours. This is hypocracy.
Paul Warren
August 22, 2009
They talk of God’s forgiveness, yet they doubt His capacity to forgive. One thing that I have never understood about Shariah is that no where in it can one find forgiveness. The greatest healer of the soul is forgiveness, both to the victim and the perpetrator.
sing
August 23, 2009
Ah, they do believe in God’s forgiveness!
Except that those moral police believe that God franchised this business to them!
These religious police becomes the new priests and mediator between God and men!
And that means power and money!
ooi kee teik
August 22, 2009
My sympathy to the lady. I think if God is here, he would have forgiven her.
harun
August 22, 2009
Haris I’m hoping that when you get old
your son will do the same thing as you did.
and you must very proud of him.
and for non-muslim that comment so much about topic relates to islam
begin today I will ask every chinese about why they offer the cup cake for
their dead great2 grandparents and pretend that their ancestor will sneaking out
from the grave just to enjoy the strawberry flavour cup cake.
anonymous
August 23, 2009
Harun,
Not all Chinese do offering to their ancestors, but if some decided not to follow, we Chinese don’t do “policing” that so and so must do offering. We don’t do canning on so and so for not doing offering.
Come on Harun, practise what you believe if right, why the need to impose on others what you believe is right?
Kalambong
August 24, 2009
To the one who believe only the Muslim can comment on Islam,
Isn’t it ironic that you are doing exactly what you are condemning?
To belittling what the Chinese do is to belittling your own upbringing as a righteous Muslim !
Ahmad
August 23, 2009
<>
In the verses preceeding the above quoted verse, (verses 90-92) it was clearly mentioned that intoxicants are an abomination and told to abstain from it and your highlited phrase —”there is no sin on them for what they ate” — actually refering to those muslims (in the Prophets time) who consumed intoxicants during their ‘jahiliyah’ days, not to worry because God will forgive their past action.
<>
Kartika has committed a sin, reference to Surah 2 Verse 219,
“” They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: “In them is great sin, and
some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit.” They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: “What is beyond your needs.” Thus doth God Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider- “”
So Mr Haris, please read; read again ; and once again read the Quran before you give any personal comments on any verses of the Quran so that confusion can be avoided.
For all others verses, I do concur
May God Blessings on all of us.
Mott el Hoople
August 23, 2009
My heart goes out to Kartika and her children. Would the “Islamic” officers who arrested her swear on the holy Koran that they have never done anything that is against Islamic teachings, namely making false mileage claims, coming to work late but asking their friends to clock in for them, taking bribes to drop charges against wrongdoers, looking the other way when their relatives or close friends the wrongdoers?
Oh How I abhor, hate and detest hypocrites who walk with a ‘halo’ around their heads.
God or “Allah” if you will, will never forgive these satans.
SA Rayn
August 23, 2009
I agree with Haris, How can the state punish her for drinking when it is the state who approves/allows the sale of alcohol in the first place?
Shakuntala
August 23, 2009
Religion is whether a person behaves properly or not….it is living life by a moral code of conduct.That is worship of God.
It is not a set of rules, based on fear or guilt or coersion…
In this country we have an over-muchness of religion and we are hating each other. We are not loving each other.
romerz
August 23, 2009
Being a non-believer and an agnostic, I seldom comment on religious matters. Through personal experience, I have found that those who do believe can be fanatical which no amount of reasonable debate can change their minds. (Personally speaking, religion is the least of my problems hence my staying clear of arguing issues which NO ONE from this world can ever give a definitive answer!)
I only have problems when “faith” is legislated as in this country. I have a problem with mixing faith with politics and governance.
In my simple agnostic mind, faith is a PERSONAL calling which should not be mixed with the dirty realm of politics.
Sorry Haris for butting in when I have nothing intelligent to say except that “I think therefore I am”. Sorry again to all the believers.
And Happy Ramadan to all of the faith.
sambalmuncha
August 23, 2009
Haris, you are king bro. Everyone makes a big fuss about the physical aspect of saum.
Sorry Kartika for having to face laws that do not respect your personal space. Shame on us.
Samuel Goh Kim Eng
August 23, 2009
GO FOR LAWS WITH NO FLAWS
There will always be man’s laws and God’s laws
With loving God’s holy laws there will be no flaws
Often with man-made laws we are down on the floors
When treated harshly like uncivilized animals on our four
(C) Samuel Goh Kim Eng – 230809
http://MotivationInMotion.blogspot.com
Sun. 23rd Aug. 2009.
oA
August 23, 2009
.
this case is being politicized.
when this case first surfaced it was then followed by the beer seizure in Selangor and resulted in the spat btw. the different excos.
right as of now … it is merely for show and nothing else.
.
Saba
August 23, 2009
This is not meant to criticise or condemn, but like many others, I am confused. If it is true that the Koran does not specify a punishment for people who do not fast or drink alcohol, then how is it that a physical punishment is handed down in such cases???
And how is it that Malaysia permits the physical punishments as in the case of Kartika? Does this mean that the ones who made the decision on the punishment be punished themselves for going against a teaching? And what about the ones who will carry out the caning; should they be punished as well?
This is all very, very confusing. Some one should clear the air so that it is clearly understood.
Anis Ahmad
August 23, 2009
Haris,
Just like you people at Bar Council punished anyone who do wrong..it’s the same if you are Muslim…If you do not believe in Islam and do not want to be punished..just declare yourself a murtad and go to hell..I do not care a bit…
anonymous
August 23, 2009
Anis Ahmad,
You did not compare apple with apple. Bar council’s rules are man-made, while the supposedly ‘cannot drink beer’ is Allah-derived.
Islam is not the problem. Overzealous Muslims are. Why can’t you let other Muslims to have their peace of minds on what they believe? This cannot drink, that cannot eat, mini-skirt cannot wear, what else?
Whatif
August 24, 2009
Anis,
In Malaysia, you are not allowed to declare oneself a murtad. They will put you in jail until you “repent” or die in jail. Kamariah Ali is a case in point. If you think she deserves it, then we know what kind of a person you are.
There should be no compulsion in religion; otherwise there will surely be victimisation, coercion and intimidation. Suffering will abound.
May good sense prevail. Peace.
ibnusalluh
August 23, 2009
You cannot simply spin quran like what you spin politics damn it. If you really know Quran, you wouldn’t be smoking during Ramadhan.
julian
August 23, 2009
a well written article bro
though she drank beer it was with her husband—–how about all the religious hipocrites who drink or do other worst things under the sun with someone who is not his/her wife or husband.
i wish you selamat bulan puasa bro.
soondar
August 23, 2009
I am sure you will not deny that God also teaches in the Quran that as a muslim, you are required to adhere to matters decided by Him and His Messenger, Muhammad S.A.W.
It seems to me that you readily accept all that God says in the Quran.
It also seems to me that you are teaching your own interpretations of what God’s Revelations should mean.
So, have you now taken over the Holy Prophet’s role in Islam?
Just in case you missed it, let me repeat it to you that in the Quran, God also teaches that as a muslim, you are required to adhere to matters decided by Him and His Messenger, Muhammad S.A.W.
Nanda
August 25, 2009
Care to provide the relevant verse/verses?
Nanda,
Not quite sure which verses you want me to provide
Nanda
August 26, 2009
No sir,
I was asking soondar since he mentioned, and I quote “in the Quran, God also teaches that as a muslim, you are required to adhere to matters DECIDED by Him AND His Messenger, Muhammad S.A.W” emphasis added.
Anak mami
August 23, 2009
You define al-Quran verses your way, isnt it? Try getting the correct definitions from ulamas. If a Moslem you claim yourself to be, probably you are only a fringe Moslem. Not a true one. Sad..
wira
August 23, 2009
“Those who believe and do righteous good deeds, there is no sin on them for what they ate, if they fear God and believe and do righteous good deeds, and again fear God and believe, and once again fear God and do good deeds with perfection. And God loves the good-doers” – Surah 5 verse 93
I think the above verse refers to the food (Arabs and the semitic people were extremely particular and ritual about “clean” food) believers consume. Thus, the verse explains that righteous people are sinless regardless of the kind of food (eg. unclean food) they eat.
The verse does not mean it is ok not to fast during Ramadan as that is covered by another commandment.
Ahmad
August 23, 2009
Wira,
please read verses 90 – 92 in Surah 5, then you will understand the message in verse 93.
Haris,
see what you have done, the confusion that evolves from your uncalculative action and comment.
May God Blessings on all of us.
victor chin
August 23, 2009
Is there not something in the Quran that says that those who are giving out punishment must themselves be without sin? This is not similar to the Bible which also pointed out that let those without sin cast the first stone? Then did not Gandhi also said that an eye for an eye makes the world world blind?
soondar
August 23, 2009
Victor, where in the Quran does it say that “those who are giving out punishment must themselves be without sin”?
Or are just guessing that all religions are the same?
sing
August 23, 2009
Actually ‘an eye for an eye’ is a good civil law of just restitution. This civil law if properly administered by the civil court would make sure that the offender be justly punished, and the victim be justly compensated. If the wicked know that just restitution is demanded of them, they will hesitate to act wickedly.
Here are example of the application of the law:
22:1 ¶ If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.
2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
3 If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.
4 If the theft be certainly found in his hand alive, whether it be ox, or ass, or sheep; he shall restore double.
5 If a man shall cause a field or vineyard to be eaten, and shall put in his beast, and shall feed in another man’s field; of the best of his own field, and of the best of his own vineyard, shall he make restitution.
6 If fire break out, and catch in thorns, so that the stacks of corn, or the standing corn, or the field, be consumed therewith; he that kindled the fire shall surely make restitution.
7 ¶ If a man shall deliver unto his neighbour money or stuff to keep, and it be stolen out of the man’s house; if the thief be found, let him pay double.
8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour’s goods.
If this principle of just restitution is enforced, there would be less corrupt people in every level of society. This civil law ensure that it is costly to steal or covet.
However, the vengeful would abuse this civil law “an eye for an eye” as license to take the law into his own hand.
To such people, Jesus said, “Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
yaya
August 23, 2009
bertaubat sebelum terlambat.jangan cakap besar seolah-olah kamu lebih pandai daripada tuhan. nauzubillah.
driftwood
August 23, 2009
I agree. No man can punish another man for comitting sin. But many of these Muslims don’t understand because they do not follow Islam taught by the Prophet Muhammad. Instead, they follow the Islam which has been tainted by Arabic rituals and practice.
People always ask about my religion. I tell them I have none but I believe in the Unseen Creator and Judgment Day. Why must I ascribe a ‘religion’ to my beliefs ?
My point is, you do what you want and I do what I want. I can only tell you if you have deviated but I have no right to judge or punish you for doing it. Let God be the Judge.
Shams Fatani
August 23, 2009
Hi
Dear Haris. Excuse me for my words. I know that you expected this harsh dictation. You are ‘kufr & murtad’ from the point of islamic faith jurisprudence & you had rejected the article of islamic faith, rukun islam & rukun iman. To be a kufr & murtad doesn’t need conversion to other theist or to be an atheist. Get my word pls….any apologist affirmations and justifications that agrees with you from non-muslim explanations are null and void islamic jurisprudence thought technically. Your words are soul searching fallacies from the point of islamic jurisprudence. Be prepared when you might be confine by Pusat Asuhan Akhidah. Think & be ready of having a long excessive internship dialogue with them. & think & be prepared that you are very defensive from being ‘brainwashed’ from your ‘human right’ point of view. Pusat Asuhan Akidah is no ISA & you know about it. Time is too short for everybody to argue with you. When I was young I was like exactly like you. Then I walk a thousand miles, east and west, in hippies days, to monastries, pilgrimages centres, sufism graveyards mosque, islamich zentrum, al- ghazalies sufism, theological schools, religious universities, walked with religious movements, collecting papers from encyclopaedias, Leiden, Harvard ect & back for a while in the west & still unfullfield but not lost. I found many people (malays) like you on my long journey. There are some muslim malays who converts to other theist or atheist or free thinker….& ideas of deconstruction of islamic jurisprudence, to ideolised islam without ‘shariah jurisprudence’, the ‘only’ Koran readers.
I still remember Islamic studies Prof J.E. Montgomery recommend religious fasting & he fast in muslim fasting month sometimes. Should a non muslim recommend fasting? Any spritual reflections?
Muhammad Firdaus Christopher
August 23, 2009
Salam bro,
You’re absolutely correct & like I’ve said over and over again, there is just so many “prophets” out there nowadays & everyone seems to be making their own assertions towards the teachings of Islam
I am with you bro, saum the way we understand it.
God bless
Bondi
August 23, 2009
To Shams,
Christians also fast during Lent and Holy Week. But, not only, as we are encouraged to perform something positive or giving up certain luxuries. However, there is no compulsion, religious policing or whatever. It’s an examination of conscience and reflection. Its a personal conversation with God. It’s not the wine or beer that is sinful. It’s the overindulgence in them that is. And that also means over indulgence in everything else, like power, wealth, greed, gambling etc so much as to exclude God from one’s life that is sinful.
Purely ritualistic fasting without meaning is not encouraged. The Bible doesmention that when we fast, do not put on a long face, but wash our faces and appear as normal, when we pray, do not stand on the street corners and show everyone we are praying, but find a quiet place and be alone.
shar101
August 23, 2009
What’s the equivalent to res judicata in syariah law?
http://themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/35835-legalities-complicate-kartikas-caning-
It would seem that justice and punishment are arbitrarily interpreted and applied by the syariah court.
Karano Tok
August 23, 2009
Long long time ago there is a famouse chief pass down the ‘Manuel’ and reciepy that suppose to bring the world great taste of food.
It suppose to help cook good food but until someone say we should cook this way and the other say we should cook that way. For me, as long as you cook something that can be eaten and everybody happy that is ok… Read More. But someone started to use the knife and pointing at others and say they cook wrongly… The manual say cut your hand, cut your leg, canning if you put too much salt?
Oh my god… i’m leaving such kicthen….
ibnmohamad
August 23, 2009
Fitna is worst than murder.
It seems they have to flush their own mess .
Then only can we talk about ~taubat hasuha.
ibnmohamad ` the gentile `
bkho
August 23, 2009
So sad to see so many people judging Haris for speaking his mind and living his life his way.
Haris, you needn’t bother with what these zealots say.
The only Judge is yes, He. And that’s at the end of each person’s life. So, there’s a long way to go.
Anyway, I am sure you live a much fuller life than most of these negative people.
anna brella
August 24, 2009
Nothwithstanding that it is the generally accepted view of many reasonable people in most civilised societies living in this enlightened age of the 21st century, that it is simply BARBARIC for anyone (as I believe we all left the Homo Erectus/Sapiens and/or Neanderthal-like stages and ages some time ago) to impose such sentencing as public flogging/whipping/caning for drinking or eating food substances, or condone its imposition, how come this…er….Shariah law (which is apparently stated to be sanctioned by an Almighty God/Tuhan) is being used and imposed so selectively in Malaysia?
If it is God’s /Islam’s standard Law, should it not be applied as standard in an equitable manner to ALL Muslims?
I presume, with my limited understanding of course, that if one is a card-carrying Muslim, or converts to being one, then that person automatically has volunatrily agreed to be bound by the tenets of Islam and its allied code of conduct and appropriate behaviours which are expected from Muslims and which religious tenets are governed and policed through the application of standard Shariah laws and sanctions?
My current understanding (which may be wrong of course as I a not an expert in Islam or its Shariah laws) is that the standard Shariah law sanction for adultery in Malaysia is (or used to be) the infliction of Sula, while elsewhere I believe it is public flogging (if the person is unmarried) or public execution if the person is married at the time they are proven to have committed the adultery.
So how come the religious Malaysian Muslim religious mullahs (self-appointed judges of God/Tuhan) who imposed the public flogging/whipping sentence on Kartika Sari Dewi for consuming alcohol in public (so is it OK to consume alcohol in private then?) not also impose the sentence of sula/public execution on Abdul Razak Baginda, who is a born Muslim and who publicly admitted in a secular court of law there to committing adultery with Altantuyaa Shaariibuugiin while he was married to another (Muslim) woman at the time of the stated (Shariah sin/crime) adultery?
Furthermore, how about the present PM and his current spouse who are both, I gather, staunch exemplary Muslims? Wasn’t the present PM married (to a fellow royal Muslim member I believe) AT the time he must have met his current (also a Muslim) spouse? Presumably, and allegedly, he and his current spouse too must have, unless of course I am wildly mistaken and they are in fact exemplary saints on the matter of inappropriate khalwat-like relations prior to marriage, committed some Islamic crime/sin of at least khalwat which is probably why the PM’s first wife may have divorced him? I could of course be wrong on this matter in which case, I would be most grateful for any corrections for my inadvertent/ignorant error/s in understanding.
Or am I being densely stupid here and altogether missing the real, salient point when it comes to how drinking or eating prohibited food substances or braking fasting rules or adultery or rape is really viewed by those who call themselves “Muslims” and are in fact treated by the religious mullahs (self-appointed judges of God over other humans here on earth) and by Shariah law?
Is it more the honest case that alcohol drinking or adultery or any other listed sin/crime is only a crime/sin that is punishable by Shariah law in Malaysia (and perhaps also elsewhere in the Muslim world too) when it is a Muslim WOMAN (or an unconnected to established power-base and so POWERLESS Muslim man) who commits that listed sin/crime, so that the same Shariah law is not applicable at all or only selectively applied by the religious mullahs/self-appointed judges to Muslim men who commit the same crime/sin of alcohol drinking/adultery/khalwat/rape of women and even of children?
Or is it more likely to be the Truth/reality that these so-called religious mullahs (i.e. similar to any priestly group of self-appointed representatives of an Almighty God here on earth) are simply being and behaving in the same hypocritical mould and manner as most of the males in the human race the world over do and are therefore, merely using the political ideologies known as “religions” to keep in place an established religious power structure (based on putting a hijacked loving spiritual Almighty God at the centre of it and Who of course, we all know can never ever be FACTUALLY proven to exist or not to exist by any human being here on earth at present) and so are merely playing the same manipulative game of class and gender politics on the more ignorant/gullible members of the human race for accumulating POWER over these others and therefore, my be unjustly and unfairly picking on the more ignorant/defenceless/powerless Muslim members of that world FAITH group who are known as, or seen by these opportunistic men of religion/power as being those who can be taken advantage of (through their lack of education or greasy connections in the right places perhaps) and are therefore, probably using this more ignorant/defenceless/powerless group as either their religious guinea pigs to rubber stamp that religious ideology or for their personal little-Hitler bullying or self-gratifications or more likely to gain and entrench power over these others so that they and their religious institution can become established and preserve a meal-ticket for life for their anointed leaders and members of that particular religious “faith” sect/group?
Three further points on Shariah law which I am unclear about and which I hope some truly enlightened Islamic scholar or other truly brainy luminary (rather than the usual sorry asinine sorts one sees here at times attacking Haris without any shred of formal logic or even reasoned argument) will perhaps genuinely venture forth to provide some clarification on:
1. The Taliban castrated a politician in public and made the castrated man eat his castrated parts in an incident in Afghanistan some years ago. Could someone please tell me what Shariah law sanctions that act of human barbarism? And for what crime/sin against the God of Islam is that sanction required by Shariah law to be imposed here on earth on Muslims by other Muslims, and presumably self-appointees of God here on earth?
2. And what about that public execution of that unmarried teenaged Saudi Arabian Muslim princess and her (married?) Muslim lover in 1977 in Saudi Arabia? What Shariah law was that done under and for what crime/sin does the God of Islam require that act of human barbarism to be done? With reference to ARB – is the Shariah law practiced in Saudi Arabia a different version to the Shariah law practiced in Malaysia? If so, why is there a difference in the actual sanctions being imposed for the same sin/crime of adultery?
3. And what about the now apparently regularised public/private beheadings of Muslim and non-Muslim (Caucasians usually) men and women by the “Islamist/Muslim” terrorists (so-called as such by the still woefully ignorant journalists of some western and eastern media ) that we all know of? What Shariah law sanctions those sentences and for what crimes/sins? Does the God of Islam and Sharia require and condone these sentences to be imposed on Muslims and other human beings here o earth by self-appointed Muslim representatives of that same God?
4. And what about the case in Malacca that Lim Guan Eng highlighted to the Dewan Rakyat/public and for which he was punished unjustly by being incarcerated in Hotel KDC for two years using that usual (secular law) political tool of convenience, the ISA? Was that incident not an alleged rape of a young underaged Muslim girl by a male Muslim holding a position of established power there? Were the religious Muslim mullahs there not aware of that alleged incident of unlawful fornication (presumably a clearly defined sin/crime in Shariah law?) or were they too busy on their God-appointed duties to notice that alleged rape of a minor, or did they perhaps choose to selectively sleep through that alleged episode and so shirk their supposedly God-appointed role and job they were put on the Malaysian part of planet Earth to do for the God of Islam?
“Imagine Power To The People” John Lennon.
anna brella
August 24, 2009
To add one further question for clarification to my earlier posting:
What is the Shariah law sanctioned official sentence for corruption and theft of public resources held under trust?
“Imagine Power To The People” John Lennon.
Saiful
August 24, 2009
“Sharifah came up and reprimanded me, and suggested that if I had to smoke during the fasting month, I should do it in the toilet.
I replied that if she could guarantee me that God could not see me smokng in the toilet, I would.”
Haris,
Fasting in the month of Ramadhan is only required of Muslims. Non-Muslims as well as apostates (murtad) need not bother to fast either inside or outside the toilet.
anonymous
August 24, 2009
“I replied that if she could guarantee me that God could not see me smokng in the toilet, I would”
I salute you, sir. For boldly living up to your deepest beliefs.
pro Quran
August 24, 2009
Salam Bro:
As we spoke, please tell the people that there is no verse in the Quran which says that alchoholic beverages (khamr) are haram.
In fact the word haram does not appear anywhere in the Quran with the word khamr. This is a fact.
Instead the Quran tells the believers ‘do not approach your solat when you are intoxicated’.
The word for intoxicated here is “sukkaara”. Hence people should not become intoxicated (from beer, wine, drugs, opium, singing, dancing, going into trance after zikir, after breaking coconut in the temple etc). Do not lose control of your senses willingly. As a lawyer you certainly that ALL countries have laws against drunken behaviour, drunk driving, etc.
The Quran also says that we can extract intoxicants (sakkaran) and good provisions (rezeki hasanan) from pressing fruits of the date palms and grapes.
[Surah 16:67] And from the fruits of date palms and grapes you produce intoxicants (sakkaran), as well as good provisions (rezeki hasanan). This should be proof for people who understand (li qaumin ya’qiloon).
So the qaumin ya’qiloon or people who understand will undertand that from grapes and date palms we get sakkaran (intoxicants).
The other thing you must point out that nowhere in the Quran are there any verses which prescribe any type of punishment for those who may drink alchohol. Maybe the ulama may want to check this out too.
As for saum here is Surah Maryam :
Surah 19:26 “Eat and drink, and be happy. When you see anyone, say, `I have made a SAUM of silence; I am not talking today to anyone.’
nazzartu = vowed
lirrahmaani = to the Merciful
SAUMAN = to restrict / restrain / dicipline myself
falan okallima = I will not speak
alyawma insiyyan = today to anyone
Obviously Mary spoke in Hebrew. Here the Arabic Quran translates her as saying ‘SAUMAN’ which means self discipline, self restraint.
So she did not saum or restrain herself by NOT EATING. She SAUM or restrained herself by not speaking to anyone. Hence the word SAUM does not refer automatically to NOT EATING.
In fact this verse 19:26 begins with ‘fakulee wa ishrabee wa qarri aynan’ which means ‘eat and drink and be happy..’
Mary was told to eat and drink and also to SAUM.
Salam bro. You are not alone. As I said the believers are they who are kind to each other and who are firm with the disbelievers.
Saiful
September 1, 2009
Pro Quran,
“[Surah 16:67] And from the fruits of date palms and grapes you produce intoxicants (sakkaran), as well as good provisions (rezeki hasanan). This should be proof for people who understand (li qaumin ya’qiloon).
Surah 19:26 “Eat and drink, and be happy. When you see anyone, say, `I have made a SAUM of silence; I am not talking today to anyone.’
In fact this verse 19:26 begins with ‘fakulee wa ishrabee wa qarri aynan’ which means ‘eat and drink and be happy..”
Below is what I consider a more reliable translation of the said verses:
(16:67 “And from the fruit of the date palm and the vine, you get out wholesome drink and food: behold, in this also is a Sign for those who are wise.”)
(19:26: “So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if you do see any man, say, ‘ I have vowed a fast to (God) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into no talk with any human being’”.)
The translations are that of Abdullah Yusof Ali a world renowned translator of the Holy Quran. He’s well qualified in Arabic as well as in Law. There are obvious flaws in the translation you produced. I’ve checked the Arabic text and found that your “sakkaran” and “rezeki hasanan” were actually “sakaran” and “rizqan hasanan”.
My point here is that since The Holy Quran is the Word of God in Arabic its translation must be undertaken by someone who is well-versed in Arabic and other related disciplines while at the same time meticulous and sincere in the dissemination of its message. Unless the intention is to mislead and to confuse, the translation should not be done by just any Tom, Dick and Harry.
voronin
August 24, 2009
Read and understand the Quran before you speak.
anonymous
August 24, 2009
Haris,
Congratulations. Kartika spared canning for drinking beer.
http://themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/35902-kartika-spared-caning-for-drinking-beer
Muslims should stop “policing” Muslims. Islam do not allow anyone to “police” others. If a parent wish to “police” his kids, that’s ok, but it is entirely different matter.
anna brella
August 24, 2009
Sorry, I believe the public flogging/caning of this Muslim woman has only been DELAYED till after Ramadan, presumably by the (kind and merciful? actions of the) religious male mullahs/self-appointees of the God of Islam here on earth to sit in, and administer judgement, on behalf of the God of Islam over other Muslims here on earth.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8217440.stm
“Imagine Power To The People” John Lennon.
anonymous
August 24, 2009
Haris,
What if a minister’s daughter or son having treatment in a hospital for alcoholic intoxication (not workcolholic)problem. Will they be canned and fined like Kartika first, then go for treatment or go for treatment first, then rotan and fine?
Kalambong
August 24, 2009
There are photos circulating showing a son of a Malaysian minister drinking beer
How come we don’t see the religious enforcer go lock that guy up?
How come we don’t see the religious judge sentence him to be caned?
Why not??
lebai
August 24, 2009
may god forgive you haris. bertaubatlah.
Burung
August 25, 2009
“Does this mean that Muslim women are not the equal of their non-Muslim sisters under the law?”
from http://www.rantingsbymm.blogspot.com/
============================================.
I don’t know about you, but I like the kind of religion that teaches us to be kind, honest, productive, thoughtful and considerate of others, and pretty much leaves it at that.
And when it comes to bad guys, I much prefer the defense “The devil made me do it” to “God made me do it.” Stuff the devil makes you do is bad, sometimes real bad, but admitting that it’s bad at least makes it honest.
Religion is a serious subject, but don’t you wish some people took it a lot less seriously?
Karimah
August 26, 2009
Sir,
I do believe that u have the right to hold to your beliefs. But, i don’t believe in using part of the verses of the Quran al-Karim with total disregard of its whole meaning just to justify your doings. When i read this post it reminds me of Fitna.
Sir, muslims believe that it is a sin to drink alcohol because the Quran in surah 5 al-ma’idah, verse 90 clearly states that “Wahai orang-orang yang beriman! Sesungguhnya minuman keras, berjudi, (berkurban untuk) berhala, dan mengundi nasib dengan anak panah, adalah perbuatan keji dan termasuk perbuatan syaitan. Maka jauhilah perbuatan-perbuatan itu agar kamu beruntung”. But, of course you ‘overlooked’ the fact when you used the following verse 93 in the same surah to say that you’re not sure if Kartika has committed a sin. I’ve read and re-read what you wrote just to be sure that i understand it well. Forgive me if i’m wrong. A sin is a sin. If he/she repents and does righteous good deeds and fear Allah as long as he/she lives, insyaallah, Allah the Most Gracious and the Most Merciful would forgive him/her for what he/she ate in the past as the verse 93 states.
Pro Quran said that there is no verse in the Quran which says that alchoholic beverages are haram. Is the verse 90 from surah 5 not clear enough for you to understand that alcoholic drink is haram? It is mentioned in the same ayat as gambling, making sacrifice for idol etc, and yet you still cannot see the truth? So much for a pro quran eh?
Sir, I believe you believe that the Quran is the words of Allah. And as a muslim, there are two things that we have to hold on to in life as our beloved Prophet said, the Quran and his sunnah. Using the Quran as it fits our purpose will lead us away from the path of the mukmin. Muslim by name, but not by practice.. that differentiates the mukmin from the muslim. This is a reminder for me too.
But then again sir, of course Allah would be the Ultimate Judge of what we’ve done as u pointedly said in the form of verses 22 & 39. That is a reminder for all but not enough to justify your stands.
Shaum in surah Maryam ayat 26 is about she abstaining from speaking, true. But it does not refer to observing fasts in the month of Ramadhan as required to all muslims. There are two words in Quran that refers to fasts – shaum and shiam. The fasts in Ramadhan or shiam is ordered by Allah to be observed by all muslims as stated in surah al-Baqarah, verses 183-187. Fasts is one of the rukun Islam, sir..
I’m saddened really, by this entry especially about the fasts. I’ve been following your blog for quite sometimes now. And i know that you’ve been reading the quran & its tafsir. If you truly understand what you’ve read, you won’t be saying the things you said, i believe. Of course Allah the All Knowing knows what u said and what u did. You cannot hide a thing from him.
May Allah bless us all, amin! And have a blessed Ramadhan, sir..
sing
August 26, 2009
Man’s ideas replacing God’s word:
===========
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition….
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
============
There are always religious self-righteous pharisees whose blind zeal want to impose their ideas upon, and supplant God’s word.
Mr. Bad
August 26, 2009
Growing up, Mom and Dad, and often my older brothers and sisters, taught me about God, and about Heaven and Hell. If you were good, you went to Heaven, and if you were bad, then you went to Hell. Then as life went on, they proceeded to explain to me what was good and what was bad. Today, I may not always agree with them on what is considered good and what is considered bad, and to be frank I have not always been good. I admit I have done my share of crap in my life. But the standard rule still applies for me – if you’re good you go to Heaven, and if you’re bad you go to Hell. Since we’re all human, then I’m going to assume that all of us have done some good and some bad in our lives. So who decides how much good or bad we’ve done? And who decides if the good is more than the bad, or if the bad is more than the good? And if the good is more than the bad, who decides if it is enough to get us into Heaven? I figure that job must be God’s. Since He sees all and knows all, then He would be the only one who has what it takes to make those decisions. It’s not a small decision, mind you. It’s Heaven or Hell. He decides whether you go to Heaven or Hell for ETERNITY. Yes, ETERNITY. Do you know how long that is?
So let me see if I can get this right – living on this planet, if I do good or bad, God is keeping track so that he can make this big decision (big for us, probably not big for Him) on whether we go to Heaven or Hell. So if I do something bad here like not fasting, or eating pork, or drinking alcohol, and even if I do not hurt anyone else in the process, God is going to punish me. So why do I need to get punished first by Dr. Hasan and gang, and then punished by God in the hereafter?
SiSombong
June 17, 2010
gila.