Update : Someone asked for a map to Bukit Aman. Here are the links to two. Hope they help.
http://www.dromoz.com/directory/place/?id=1226&p=Bukit+Aman
http://www.dromoz.com/directory/place/?id=7577&p=Bukit+Aman
____________________________________________________
There were 4 deaths in custody in 2009 where the details of the deceased and the fact of the death in custody became publicly known.
Kugan, who died in the Taipan police station in January.
Gnanapragasam, who died in the Sri Damansara police station in June.
Teoh Beng Hock.
And Gunasegaran.
Gunasegaran’s stood out from the others in one very important detail.
Four individuals detained together with Gunasegaran witnessed events leading up to Guna’s death.
Unlike the other three cases, in Guna’s case, there were eye witness accounts that, it would turn out, materially contradicted the official account proffered by the police auhorities.
As efforts were made in late July and early August last year to put together a team to try and get at the truth surrounding Guna’s death, it became obvious early on that these eye witnesses would need to be ‘protected’, lest they be ‘got to’, to change their ‘story’.
That task fell on the shoulders of one person who chooses to remain unknown. I shall call him X.
Sure, enough, on the night of the very day that Visva successfully got an order of the High Court in August last year, based on the sworn testimony of 3 of those 4 eyewitnesses, for a second post mortem and an inquest into Guna’s death, Selvach, one of the three, got word that the police wanted him in for questioning in relation to a police report said to have been lodged against him in relation to a family quarrel.
Selvach alerted X of this and the next day, a solicitor was arranged to accompany Selvach to the Wangsa Maju police station to offer his statement in relation to that alleged report.
Nothing came of this.
We assured Selvach that if at any time he was harassed or intimidated by the police, he should contact X and every effort would be made to give him protection.
Now, since that episode, Selvach never called X to ask for any help in relation to any intimidation, arrest or harassment by the police.
You will also note that in Visva’s submissions that I referred to in my ‘New brooms…’ post, Visva had said, of Selvach :
Saksi ini memberi keterangan bahawa pada 16.7.2009 beliau juga ditahan bersama simati dan 4 yang lain. Saksi ini telah dilepaskan pihak polis kerana ujian urin beliau negative pada petang hari tersebut.
Selvach was released on the same day of the arrest, 16th July, 2009, because his urine sample tested negative for any drugs.
Now if he had gotten into any trouble with the law, or if he had had another run-in with the police, I’m certain he would have been in touch with X for help.
There was no such call to X prior to Selvach’s arrest last Monday night, after the coroner had delivered her verdict earlier in the day.
To the best of our knowledge, then, Selvach had no further ‘problem’ with the law.
So why was Selvach beaten and arrested that night, and why is he being held?
Selvach could have refused to have anything to do with the inquest proceedings, to spare himself any trouble with the police.
He did not.
He stepped forward and told the truth.
Is that why he is being held now?
Because he dared to speak up?
_______________________________________
Please come and Join us to seek justice for Selvach
PROTEST MEMO TO IGP ON 30TH OCTOBER 2010
The trauma caused to the children is unimaginable and in gross violation of international norms on the protection of children. In a twisted perversion of conjugal love, police personnel tried to make Selvach’s wife S.Saraswathy kiss him before beating him up in front of her. Selvach, who did his duty as a citizen by telling the truth at the Gunasegaran inquest, is now being held at an unknown location with no access to his family or lawyers. It is believed that he is being detained without trial under the Emergency Ordinance. The outrage done against Selvach and his family is only the latest in a long series of police brutality cases going back into and beyond the Mahathir despotism.
WE FREE CITIZENS OF THIS NATION MUST MAKE A STAND AGAINST THE PREVAILING POLICE AND STATE VIOLENCE ! JOIN US FOR THE HANDING OVER OF A PROTEST MEMORANDUM TO THE IGP.
The details as below:
Date: 30 October 2010
Time: 10am
Place: BUKIT AMAN FEDERAL POLICE HQ ( LAKE GARDEN ENTRANCE ).
BaronV
October 28, 2010
haris could you post directions for the benefit of those of us who are not familiar with the area? I for one dont even have a car! so how would I get there?
BaronV,
I’ll try
BC
October 28, 2010
Good suggestion BaronV. I am also not sure how to get there, but will be there unless things prevail upon my intention.
gc
October 28, 2010
i am not in KL, however even if I am in Kl, i am COWARD. With looking at hindraf protest beaten by police fru burtaly, I am super coward for street or even candlelight vigil protest. I am so coward become worse then mak nyah pondan. I want to support Haris and his team for their good work. haris should consider paypal inthis website. many from overseas will donate. Not amny are daring like haris and rest but many can be anoymous to support the good deed. I am very sorry. God should put me to hell for being selfish and self-centred.
orangkampung
October 28, 2010
Haris,
I recalled some months ago, when you blogged about the 3 or 4 witnesses in the then on-going trial of Guna, I already posted a comment wondering if anyone would protect these witnesses from home. And, I said I worried for their safety.
I recalled you replied something to the effect that we shall see……so, now I know Mr X was protecting these witnesses.
Can Mr X now help Selvach?
I was very sad and disturbed when I first read about Selva’s arrest on Nathaniel’s blog which featured Latheefa Koya’s tweeter. I immediately posted a comment about it on your blog and some others. No one responded other than Din Merican saying he will get his friend to raise it at the Dewan.
Can someone out there who have connections with PDRM help Selvach? How about going to an UMNO/BN MP? Or MIC?
I continued to be disturbed since reading about this case because I worry that Selvach might be beaten to death. I am not able to help him other than offering my prayers for him and his family plus the other 2 witnesses as well.
I am sure someone out there is able to pull some strings with PDRM. If this someone is reading this article, please please help Selvach.
He must have been beaten and tortured to a pulp by now….I feel so disturbed each time I think about it.
Thanks
orangkampung
AgreeToDisagree
October 29, 2010
DEAR PEOPLE’S PARLIAMENT :
This below ground breaking comment series is yours to edit and refine so long the tone and intent remain unaltered. Loyar Burok site has removed these comments. Please repost here for everyone to study and draw conclusion or comment on. Thank you in advance for ensuring freedom of speech.
GROUNDBREAKING COMMENT SERIES FROM LOYAR BUROK :
ALERT! ALARM! HALARM!
I noticed these series of comments were removed by Loyar Burok. Hey whats going on? I think we were getting somewhere with this, why cut us all off??? Here I post again. Readers, better read it or log it before it disappears again!
apalahNo Gravatar on 27 October, 2010 at 3:45 am
@AgreeToDisagree.
“That is true but we are not the ones applying APARTHEID this day.Though to apply against outsiders is no less unethical when viewed from a humanist lens.”
I really hope to hear that for future, but for now, one race couldnt even like to agree with others race. We know, we dont want to apply APARTHEID. But you can see for time being. Any race also want power. If other got one, other also want to brag.
Thats why, theory is always theory. I wish a theory would convert into law, but you know, ehem, we only one among millions. In the middle of millions that dont think like we think right now. In the middle of people that love wars and powers.
Who will control it. Could we comfirm that there are no abuse, as you know law could be changed anytime? Like Singapore there. When their power risen, there is no chances for malays. Even Kampung Gelam, the last big piece malay land also abused. It was applied. PRACTICALLY.
“Most of the people living here in Malaysia were not from Malaysia.”
Yup. Indeed. It is real. But, our ancenstors come and open the countries. Establish them. Make roads, live happily. Create politic connections. For hundreds of years. Quote it as oldcomers.
And then, come newcomers. Before this, they are in smaller group. Then, the group become bigger, they grows. No problem, and they come to “cari makan”.
We happily live among them, and help each other.
——————————————
We talk, helping each other for a long time.
But, for a time there, there is nationalist, want to create COMMUNISTS idealogy. We call that Parti Komunis Malaya (PKM). At first, they helps, but after that, they rebels and kills Malays. A lot of them. Many of my relatives died, killed by communists. How we could revenge them. Could they rest in peace?
Supporters, Chinese. Chinese Communists threaten Chinese to supply Communists.
Tunku give them chances, but they dont want to cooperate. War again with them until Chin Peng run to Thailand.
As an example. If that Chin Peng comes back to Malaysia, could we pardon him? After all he wrongdoings from the past, could we pardon him and think it as no problem?
——————————————
We love to cooperate, but when other race oppose what we want to do, and still want to preserve their idealogy, then how?
Ok think it PRACTICALLY. SIMULATE it in your mind.
Malay want a school that could teach all kinds of people inside it. Other race oppose. Why, want to preserve identity.
Thats why we have a lot of school in malaysia. Tamil school, Chinese school, Malay school.
Could you agree that put all in one school is OK. We are OK but others say NOT.
So, no equality. No any equality, starts from school.
From darjah Satu, there is no equality. I know that, because i am a malay that starts my education inside a chinese school. But i still respects chinese school policy, and hoping this idea of teachings could be implemented inside malay school. Melayu malas dan sombong. It was true. I get more works, different from malay school.
——————————————
“You cannot make exception for her, it is also outr of context. By principle of Jus Soli all citizens have already naturalized. Regular migration is a normal feature
of the modern world. The second part is you not viewing things in a government’s perspective and wanting to insult migrants. One day when the humanist issue is clearer to you, you will feel very differently about what you say now.”
I hope it turns to be simpler, but, when chinese monopoly us, and ask us to be quiet and make make it sounded like “human rights”, we are terified.
You know, when it comes to malays people, religion is not for sympathy. It like, Could you throw only POP-POP to used on your religion? It sounds better. But, do you know people will listen when it comes to religion?
No. No way, man.
Religion is religion. Thats why. Religion shapes us to become us right now. Exception only for non religious people. To your knowledge, we are practically AZAN for calling MUSLIMS to pray. 5 times a day (not optional. It is required). A call for praying. We dont use handphone to call muslims to pray. It was practiced for thousand years, since ancient times.
How we could tolerate that?
Could we tell them to slow down, how muslims can hear? This is most taboo. TABOO for us. Not tolerated and we are willing to die for it.
Its like, telling you (please dont be angry) dont use hell money as that paper pollutes lands, dont use that setanggi for your ancestors. Would you tolerate that? I think you will not. Same as us.
——————————————
We hope no 13 may comes again where Parti Gerakan Rakyat Malaysia (Gerakan), Parti Tindakan Demokratik (DAP) and Parti Progresif Rakyat (PPP) win 25, and PAS wins 12. When they win, they insults malays as they are talking rude on malays.
History. But it could cycle. Back again to our square one.
We give chances. But what they treat us from the past? Give votes but get badmouthing.
——————————————-
Coherent. logical thinking. We are bounded to our religion. But you also said, “So this is what the Malaysian educational system or political party in charge has bred?”
We would agree if other race agree to a conlusion. If there is an answer. But can you get it? Miilions are not thinking wisely, but as you can see, back to main:
Pam gets summon. Agree and go. Dont agree, go to court.
She doesnt need to talk much. Talk, talk talk and say bye, bye.
Police also do the work. If that Pam say like that, give a warning. If not obey give a TASER. Do according to Law.
Both parties could do good but,see, Pam become angry. She put the video for people to watch. WORLDWIDE, see in youtube.
She could settled it in court or police departments but, why she
put it for TONTONAN UMUM. Popularise herself to be idol?
Critique police to show police wrongdoings? No ID? Or any?
Come on. When we angry, we put it for show. she could tolerate and does as police wants. Talk POLITELY. But she dont tolerate. EGOIST.
Police also chewing gums. This is bad, when police work.
I sympathy with Pam at first.
But, When she draw that POL257, i could see she dont respect police anymore. Why? Because she knows RED BOOK? Aik. Only know a potion of laws doesnt make you know anything.
we could create conlusion.
Police not professional.
Police Eating when working.
But Pam thinks that police is fake.
But not fake.
Draw on POL257.
And then say many unessesary words.
Yet we tell police unprofessional, but
Pam dont act to law. This is very bad on handling things.
Is this kind of chinese, we want to give them chances?
——————————————-
For bumiputra case, chinese people is dominant in world of selling or buying. Richest people is chinese. Rich chinese always support other chinese. That is good enough. When malay is not given chances, how many chinese will take. It become bigger. And then, no shop or anything for malay. Could you tolerate to us and give us help? Rarely chinese support malays. even there is people that need to learn mandarin before work with chinese. Why, a requirement, they say. Why dont tolerate with us?
[[[ *** RESPONSE *** ]]]
hi @apalah :
Any race also want power. If other got one, other also want to brag.
(1) That is only the chauvinists and unreasonable ambitious. To uphold personal standards we need not worry about them as the logic of what is presented in the arguement cannot be challenged by mere ambition or braggery alone.
Thats why, theory is always theory. I wish a theory would convert into law, but you know, ehem, we only one among millions. In the middle of millions that dont think like we think right now.
(2) Every journey begins with a single step. Lead by example.
Who will control it. Could we comfirm that there are no abuse, as you know law could be changed anytime?
(3) Anything unfair, as elucidated in the Human Rights Charter, or against common sense like plutocrats sequestering all the wealth and lands of the world can be displaced via revolution or voting as well as education towards fair mindedness. We can work together on this. If you want to set up a political party based on these discussions, on this spirit of open discussion we have at least embraced here, by all means state your intent for I am interested. (Barring if you’re someone from existing political parties or those with wrong mindsets of course.) Can we think as if we were the only people left in this world and expand forward from there? If you can, then I’d like to meet you to discuss this.
Like Singapore there. When their power risen, there is no chances for malays. Even Kampung Gelam, the last big piece malay land also abused. It was applied. PRACTICALLY.
(4) I would never touch Kampong Glam. I am wholly with the Kampong Baru remaining a Malays only district. However I’d also like to ask that new areas be opened up as I suggest on my facebook group to cater to all future citizens.
But, for a time there, there is nationalist, want to create COMMUNISTS idealogy. We call that Parti Komunis Malaya (PKM). At first, they helps, but after that, they rebels and kills Malays. A lot of them. Many of my relatives died, killed by communists. How we could revenge them. Could they rest in peace?
(5) Majority of Chinese are not communist. Even the descendents of Communists may not be Communists. The Chinese in China even though calling themselves Communist are more Socialist-Capitalist than anything else. Chin Peng cannot be forgiven for his actions when he was young. But has he changed? Is he even Communist or the same person he was during those days now? He is an old man only. And as his memory and faculties fade, those who live with what he was in the past are doing so at their own loss. It is what we are now and what we intend to others that matter, not what we were. I do consider that it was the British and some Freemason/Zionist/NWO secret societies that put Chin Peng (then an impressionable and ambitious young man), that organized the chaos to effect their 1WorldGovernment to control everyone. Even Mahathir and Lee Kuan Yew may have been in cahoots with Chin Peng and his NWO masters the true hands behind the May 13 riots. What do you think? It is the fools who will act against the spirit of good will whatever the historical basis or current trends. Will we act to ensure freedom of man, goodwill or be taken in by centuries old secret societies which have also plotted to bring down Islam and other world religions, carved Greater India into Pakistan/Bangladesh/India 3 seperate countries? Could we pardon Chin Peng? It varies from individual to individual, but if pardoning him somehow WEAKENS the Colonial and Neo-Colonial or Fifth Columnist elements in Malaysia, we must certainly do it. THINK DEEPER.
Malay want a school that could teach all kinds of people inside it.Other race oppose. Why, want to preserve identity.Thats why we have a lot of school in Malaysia. Tamil school, Chinese school, Malay school.Could you agree that put all in one school is OK. We are OK but others say NOT.So, no equality. No any equality, starts from school.
(6) Don’t worry about that. The education issue is a barometer and reflects on what the status of things are. Let it be so a real barometer exists. When APARTHEID ends, and only 1 class of citizenship exists, it will not matter, and even the concept of state and nation may not even last long enough to see us in our graves. Don’t micromanage. We are all stuck on this and need to look at root causes rather than the symptoms of trends. This has been recognized in Human Rights Charter Article 26(c). There is a reason why that article was formulated on the back of 2 world wars. These are personal choices that will not effect TRUE EQUALITY which is a desire for free will and respect for fellow man or as of now fellow citizens.
I hope it turns to be simpler, but, when chinese monopoly us, and ask us to be quiet and make make it sounded like “human rights”, we are terified.We dont use handphone to call muslims to pray. It was practiced for thousand years, since ancient times. Its like, telling you (please dont be angry) dont use hell money as that paper pollutes lands, dont use that setanggi for your ancestors. Would you tolerate that? I think you will not. Same as us.
(7) There is no monopoly. Go to China and start buying land and developing it to prove this point. The world is same for all humans. Can’t force anything at this level. There are laws protecting everyone and we too must apply and strengthen awareness. No spekaers existed about 1 or 2 thousand years ago, and God did not demand of the Prophet that loud speakers were to be used for Azan. If the prophet knew there were non-Muslim communities around that were bothered by overly loud prayers, I am sure he would not mind asking that non-technological methods of voice based prayer be used instead. It is eminently arguable that technology was evil in itself and is causing strife in non-Muslims against Muslims because it is undeniable that loudspeaker systems with prayers not of their own faith do disturb non-Muslims, but VOICE-ONLY prayers have an entirely different quality. This cannot be taboo because there were no loudspeakers in the Prophets time and everyone used voice. As for the hell paper issue, there must be proper place for it too and preferably awy from Muslims or other not inclined.
Perhaps a reserved radius so the smell of burning will not reach? Same with the speaker volume. Based on this consideration and request, if loudspeakers were no longer used on regular and morning or evening prayers, non-Muslim communities would feel less pressurized by rather invasive prayers they do not want to hear and thus feel happier among Muslims wouldn’t you say? The Messenger of Allah said, “…. the best of neighbours to Allah is the one who is the best of them to his neighbour.” Not all neighbours are Muslim and this is where Allah tests your flexibility. When they win, they insults malays as they are talking rude on malays.
(8) No decent person should insult anyone over politics. It is however known that ambition and greed cause this. There is no proper example for the people to follow yet and many politicians are self serving. As mentioned there are some facts we need to keep in mind all the time, if we do it is not impossible and given that Malaysia only represents less than 1% of the world’s landmass, it would be best that Malays set the humanist stance so that furture developpment and sharing of Malays worldwide will not meet barriers. This is not to belittle the power of any persons but having lived under APARTHEID and authoritarianism for so long, I find that the political party paradigm as well as anything incompatible with humanist thought (which Islam has much of barring the worst of Hudud punishments) must be done away with. The future of all must not lie in the hands of a handful of politicians and do not mistake racism or apartheid or insults as representative of an entire race. We are all, MUST be all individuals for the world to progress.
Pam gets summon. Agree and go. Dont agree, go to court. She doesnt need to talk much. Talk, talk talk and say bye, bye.
(9) The officers could have ignored her and just left the summons. They chose to engage her in a nonsensical conversation and had an unprofessional attitude.
They probably knew they were not using proper SOP and Pam picked up on that subconsciously. Then there is APARTHEID against minorities which made he
feel aggrieved and use this as an opportunity to communicate this. They way she did it was wropng, but the onus is upon the government and the uniformed personnel to ensure and assure, which was not done.
Police also do the work. If that Pam say like that, give a warning. If not obey give a TASER. Do according to Law. . . . Is this kind of chinese, we want to give them chances?
(10) Tasering is against he spirit of the law, EVEN if the word of the law allows it – which means the person who wrote in the law allowing tasering is not a good person at all. It is morally wrong to taser anyone for arguing anything. At most take down their number and see them in court. Sue them. To do according to a Law that is WRONG, is WRONG. This is spirit of the law versus word of the law. You and all conscietious citizens with conscience MUST make the distinction and apply this to you fellow human being , even if they are not of your race or faith. A cosmopolitan and morally aware stance if you will. Don’t brute force law on citizens, which is the trademark of a personal nature tainted by ‘evil’. If you can let her off, do it! Don’t say ‘cos it’s law’ I will taser her or propagate the same!
Thats the difference between Good and Evil. Hurting people is worse than letting them off. Losing abit of face as opposed to tasering someone again determines your demonic or angelic nature. Think and if you can let it go, let it go! It’s not about enforcing artificial man made law but application of KINDNESS. Adaab, and nominally the spirit of Muhibbah, EVEN to non-Muslims which shows the exceptional from mediocre application of Hadiths wherever possible.
For bumiputra case, chinese people is dominant in world of selling or buying. Richest people is chinese. Rich chinese always support other chinese. Rarely chinese support malays. even there is people that need to learn mandarin before work with chinese. Why, a requirement, they say. Why dont tolerate with us?
(1) That trade and merchant thing is a falsehood in UNIVERSAL laws. There is no place for that in the afterlife. It is not about race or racism, though living under APARTHEID law fosters that which you describe. Those making you learn any language can be boycotted. Simple as that. But remember there is private sector and public sector. Private sector can run the business anyway they want, or even demand language. You cannot resent or expect private companies to act like a neutral government (which Malaysia under BN was not because of 2 citizenship Bumi-nonBumi policy). If they don’t tolerate you then blame the APRATHEID system that makes them retaliate. But when APARTHEID policy ends, you will find that it will be THEIR FAULT instead. Right now it is the
government throwing the first punch. So the private sector is protesting by behaving like this. Don’t give them reason to by allowing APARTHEID.
People may behave badly buit we must be better than them. Take it that Allah tests us. Are we going to fail by responding with evil or teach our attackers good by reacting with kindness that will shame them? The onus is upon the host race and the one always wrong will be Goliath, never David. So if Malays are not
treated equally in India or China, fully expect me to advocate that they be treated equally as well, because it Existential Angst and Fear are Human Conditions that affect everyone and I considering myself better than everyone else would not want to fuel that hated by not gibving way where I can, in the loudaspeaker vs.
voice example for instance (it is not taboo to use voice prayer and make everyone so much happier), or ending APARTHEID for equality or taking down Pam’s registration for a later court case than tasering her. We want to be right not wrong and must weigh the possibilities and flexibilities before condemning any party.
Is there not enough space and leeway for all to express themselves so long as we try to find it?
Try this link and see some ideas on how an extremely diverse society can exist and that even Hudud can exists beside Haram non-Muslims and even LGBT and others. It’s everone’s world, try to share it wheever possible. There is space for sure. So tell me if the ways suggested in the site will intrude on you unreassonably?
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=318515515322
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, because these conversations show a true desire for communication between diverse ethnicities and faiths despite differences, and an attempt encompass the fullest diversity of mankind’s expression.
shakuntala
October 29, 2010
Thank you Haris for the reminder to be there.
Thank you Haris
And for taking the trouble to remind us to be there, to help give Selvach’s family the courage and support that they need from us all.
It is a sad sad happening.
shakuntala
October 29, 2010
Think the script got garbled along the way….sorry for the unecessary repetition.
delcapo
October 29, 2010
another map link is here. (try to copy and paste)
http://maps.google.com.my/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Jalan+Bukit+Aman,+Tasik+Perdana,+50480+Kuala+Lumpur,+Federal+Territory+of+Kuala+Lumpur&sll=4.109495,109.101269&sspn=20.447524,39.506836&ie=UTF8&cd=2&geocode=FVoIMAAdHKwPBg&split=0&hq=&hnear=Jalan+Bukit+Aman,+Kuala+Lumpur,+Federal+Territory+of+Kuala+Lumpur&z=16
there’s also a group leaving from the KL Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall just before 10am.
that’s another option for those who need help with directions.
LOH YIT PHING
October 29, 2010
dear sir,
I will be there.
See you.
breathe and smile,
yit phing loh