“It is evident that politics will not save Sarawak. Politicians will not save Sarawak. It is the people who will save Sarawak.
We need Spartacus, Mahatma Gandhi and the spirit of the Tiananmen students to lead the charge for change.
Yes, it is a long-withdrawn battle and losing is assured, yet history will record that the lay people put up a stand against an establishment bent on manipulating them for personal gains.
With or without Pakatan, the people of Sarawak will mount an ongoing assault for change. This is the legacy we want to leave our children.
This is something Pakatan needs to understand. It is not that Sarawak needs Pakatan to fight its battle. Pakatan needs Sarawakians. And all we ask is that Pakatan put its act together and come along side us…
…In Sarawak, change will happen because the people desire it. And neither the BN nor Pakatan can deny them that” – Maclean Patrick’s “Shape up or ship out, Pakatan Rakyat”.
______________________________
“If there is one thing all Malaysian democrats have in common, it is that we have a common aim of ridding the country of 53 years of Barisan Nasional’s misrule and oppression. But let us first examine the so-called ‘politicians of integrity’…
…how is this Third Force going to ensure that their leaders are not going to jump ship? If the answer is that the Third Force politicians have ‘higher’ political principles than those of Pakatan, how do you measure the level of ‘principled-ness’? What guarantees can they give the rakyat?
Let’s face it, if the Third Force is the same as, or on the political right of Pakatan, then forget it – we’re doomed to repeat the same mistakes. Spare us.
The Third Force has to go beyond the populism and neo-liberalism of Pakatan and provide the substance of reform. At the last panel discussion on ‘neo-liberalism’ that I shared with Zaid, he said that he was not clear about what exactly ‘neo-liberalism’ is but that he was a liberal and a democrat!
….it is clear that there is no place in the Third Force for careerists no matter how ‘principled’ they claim they are.
A Third Force of substance has to be the political left of Pakatan, and it is meant to take our country beyond the neo-liberalism of BN and Pakatan toward a ‘Peoples’ Federation of Malaysia” – Dr Kua Kia Soong’s “What it takes to be the Third Force”.
__________________________________
Since the first week of the last fasting month, a small group of citizens have met and had discussions about the possibility of civil society initiative to offer candidates for the 13th GE to political parties seen to be committed to the cause of addressing the plight of ALL marginalised Malaysians, reforming and restoring our institutions of state, and returning the nation back to her people.
This Sunday, we are hosting a closed-door meeting involving a wider spectrum of civil society interests whereat we hope, after serious deliberation and discussion, a consensus might be arrived at to carry this initiative forward, and perhaps, establishing an interrim committee to do all that is necessary to get this initiative off the ground
Dr. Kua advocates that such an initiative should not have amongst its candidates career politicians.
I agree.
Dr Kua also appears to suggest that any past politicians looking to resurrect their political fortunes in the fertile grounds of this civil society initiative be politely but firmly shown the door.
I am of like mind.
Dr Kua asks what guarantee could this initiative offer the rakyat that such of their candidates, if elected, will not jump ship?
This is an important question, and one that I shall endeavour to answer.
Before I answer, though, I ask that each of you address this question : what guarantee did DAP, PAS and PKR give to the rakyat in respect of the candidates that they offered at the last election?
What guarantee did they give that Wee Choo Keong would not jump ship?
That Zahrain would not betray the rakyat?
That Zul Noordin would not cross over to the enemy?
We took no guarantees from the parties.
Well, we voters, too, were not thinking then, so perhaps we too are at fault in the matter of electing these most dishonest of characters to high political office.
I ask that we not make the same mistake again.
I ask that this time round, when Pakatan or any of the other non-BN parties come asking for your vote, you ask the same question that is now put to those who propose this civil society initiative.
My answer to Dr. Kua’s query is that we cannot guarantee that none of the civil society candidates will jump ship.
In fact, no one can ever give such a guarantee.
What we can do is to minimise the risk of such betrayals by putting in place a stringent candidate selection criteria that weeds out the ‘risky’ candidates, leaving only the ‘as risk-free as possible’ candidates for selection.
I am going to propose to the meeting this weekend that prospective candidates be required to do as follows.
First, to submit a comprehensive biodata / profile and to authorise a verification exercise by a risk management agency of all the details stated therein, and to carry out any further investigation deemed necessary following upon this verification exercise.
Second, to follow the lead set by Parti Sosialis Malaysia and require each prospective candidate to give a statutory declaration as to the assets in their names and that of their spouses, to undertake to make a similar statutory declaration within 6 months of being duly elected and every twelve months thereafter. They are to give their written authorisation to allow for the matters detailed in their declarations to be verified by a risk management agency.
By this exercise, we hope to be able to also weed out those whose lifestyles expose them either to the risk of blackmail or being seduced to crossover.
I do not need to list those concerns here. We all know what they are.
For candidates not prepared to go through with this rigorous screening, it ends there.
For those who clear this screening and are shortlisted, their names will be published in one issue of a Malay, English, Tamil and Mandarin newspaper as well as a website set up for this initiaitve to announce them as civil society prospective candidates, inviting the general public to write to the committee if they know of any reasons why any one or more of these shortlisted should not be offered as candidates.
Allegations without details and hence do not allow for a verification by the risk management agency will not be entertained.
Two weeks will be allowed for the public to revert with any such information.
Candidates who survive these two stages will now be required to enter into an agreement to pay back in full all monies expanded on their candidacy, both before and after nomination day until polling day should they get elected and, before dissolution of the new Parliament, as assessed by a court of law, if they should join any political party without having first obtained the sanction of a majority of voters in their constituency in attendance at a meeting notice of which shall have been published in one issue of a Malay, English, Tamil and Mandarin newspaper, convened in the constituency for the purpose of obtaining such sanction.
It is hoped that this might give the initiative the best chance to identify the ‘as risk-free as possible’ candidates for selection.
What of the criteria to use to identify, from these shortlisted, the candidates with the best MP-aptitude?
In an earlier post, this is what I had suggested.
“My2cen suggested that an MP should be highly intelligent, have a good grasp of our Malaysian history & lots of respect for it’s multiculturalism, know enough of the law to be able to understand the proposed bills/laws to be implemented, or propose new bills/laws that are more current and benefit the people as a whole, can articulate well and highlight to us any adverse laws and policies that are being contemplated, or already implemented by the govt that should be scrapped, and have a good sense of humour”.
I would like to hear from you on that which I have written here and, if possible before this Sunday, so that I may be guided by you in taking these proposals to the meeting.
I have one thing to ask of you.
Please subject Pakatan Rakyat to the same expectations that you will now demand of your Barisan Rakyat.
BaronV
November 12, 2010
Hi Haris.
with regards to the signing an agreement to pay back in full any money should they join any political party, what about the case of BN friendly “independants”? Would that also be considered asjoining a party?
If yes, gotta bear in mind that for the most part civil society candidates are likely to be partisan to one side of the political spectrum so long as it coincides wiith or does not go against their aspirations, ideals and convictions. (fair to assume that this will be a bias towards pakatan rakayat most of the time). whats to stop members of the public (partisan or otherwise) from attempting to take action against such elected people just because they perceive them to have jumped ship (or simply because they want to bring them down for less than noble reasons) – just because the actions go against what they want from a elected official?
BaronV,
Sorry, bro I don’t quite get what you are asking.
Could you make it a little clearer for this tired soul, please.
BaronV
November 13, 2010
Apologies Haris – im not very good at articulating. I went through the message more than once but clearly it didnt help! Let me try again.
First of all we consider the so called BN friendly independants.
“Candidates who survive these two stages will now be required to enter into an agreement to pay back in full all monies expanded on their candidacy, both before and after nomination day until polling day should they get elected and, before dissolution of the new Parliament, as assessed by a court of law, if they should join any political party without having first obtained the sanction of a majority of voters in their constituency…”
If for example I stood as a independant Barisan Rakyat candidate, but was clearly biased towards say Pakatan Rakyat would that count as joining a political party? What if I declared myself to be a BN friendly independant? Im not technically a member of a political party…
Where do we draw the line? Its a reality that more often than not a candidate will be biased towards one side of the political spectrum. Its fair to assume that this will often be Pakatan Rakyat since their claimed principles with more often coincide with a Barisan Rakyat candidate’s aspirations.
Now this should be okay as long as the candidate is supports PR to the extent that it is in line with his/her principles, and will not support or hit out when it goes against them.
But whats to stop say some disgrunted UMNO man from attempting to take advantage of the provisions to bring down the Barisan guy for “joinging a political party” or whatever?
dafasd
November 14, 2010
Pakatan is a pile of shit waiting to be disposed after the 13 GE. Hehehe, I’ll be anxiously waiting for the day Anwar’s going to prison
Mr. Mickey
November 15, 2010
If the Pakatan is a pile of shit, Barisan Nasional must be a pile of fertilizer then !
No wonder Malaysia has become such a wonderfully fertilized state !!!!
dafasd
November 16, 2010
Good then, at least fertilizer grows plants, some shit just dont grow, when they are supposed to grow the plants. Instead they kill the plants, sound more like Anwar and Azmin.
Dood
November 15, 2010
Dont have to waste your time! Pakatan is unfit to rule the country, and only deserve to be in the drain of history.la la la la la
Warga Malaysia
November 12, 2010
Civil Society Initiative Third Force – no politicians?
Yes hear hear hear sokong sokong sokong
So no Zaid Ibrahim, no Chua Jui Meng, definitely no Hee Yit Foong etc etc
Agree Agree Agree
4RAKYAT
November 14, 2010
we need “politicians” to fight umno. schoolteachers will be gobbled up by umno’s seasoned crooks in no time. look at what happened to selangor mb before he showed his fangs 🙂
no, u dont hv to trust politicians. u USE them. they have utility value to us rakyat. the problem is not the politicians, the problem is apathy and indiferrence on the side of the rakyat.
whatever happened, we were the ones that let it happen.
if we say, down with umno, so it shall be done. it’s that easy really. but we gotta know how to do it. one of the ways is to hit umno where it hurts most — their ignorant and fearful fanbase in the kampungs and the pendalaman areas in sabah sarawak. go there, and there shall be peace on earth.
Bob
November 15, 2010
4RAKYAT – please read up the history of both UMNO and PAS. They were led by School Teachers.
Historically it was when the peasants were EDUCATED, they then realized they were being used. The educated persons started the sharing of the realty.
As long as Utusan and Berita Harian/Perdana publish their negative spin, we will think that we cannot live without politicians.
WE CAN. If you really think about it, almost all of us are politicians. We have our agenda, and we try to make others follow ours (either thru manipulation or thru negotiation, or thru consensus building).
Remember TDM says that he never did anything without the concurrence of the CABINET. It was a collective decision.
As such, our much maligned former PM, Tun Abdullah Badawi should also be viewed as a person who sat at the top of the pyramid that made collective decisions. The members of that pyramid were mostly from Tun Mahathir’s reign. Interesting Tun Mahathir says that all decisions made during his tenure were cabinet decisions, whilst Badawi’s decisions were not. I recall Tun Abdullah Badawi being more of a CONSENSUS builder rather than a in-ur-face hell with traditions person.
History (not that written by our MoEducation or BTN), but rather from time, will show that Badawi was the right man for the right time. May God Bless Pak Lah.
anna brella
November 17, 2010
I agree that AAB was the right PM for Malaysia after the toxic 22-year reign of terror imposed by a fascist ultra-nationalist supremacist who had no respect for anybody.
“Imagine Power To The People” John Lennon.
Warga Malaysia
November 12, 2010
Haris, I hope the Civil Society would adopt my suggestion, that is, prior to being selected as candidate, they make a very public declaration that they would resign their elected seat if they ever want to shift their loyalty. While it is no guarantee, at least that very public declaration can be used to shame them also in a very very public manner with extensive write up in all the blogs that support this Civil Society Third force.
Warga Malaysia,
Thanks, bro.
Will incorporate this in my proposal on Sunday
Warga Malaysia
November 13, 2010
Good to hear that. May even consider donating to a special fund that would be used to pay for ads to spread awareness of the very very public shame if ever any elected candidate broke their public declaration to resign elected seat if desire to shift their loyalty.
BaronV
November 13, 2010
Hi Haris, i dont agree with the suggestion that the candidate MUST resign if he wants to change loyalty.
First off, the very idea of a civil society candidate is that his loyalty is first and foremost to the RAKYAT and secondly to his principles and aspirations. So the very concept of switching loyalties is no more about political parties, but about the person’s beliefs and principals (or just true colours in the case of Zul Noordin etc)
Secondly, switching alligiences (for the right reasons ie: based on solid arguments and priciples) is part and parcel of the Westminster system of Democracy. Normally i would agree that the person be made to resign. But in Malaysia the candidate would be barred from taking part in the subsequent by-election – depriving him/her of the right to put his reason’s to the test.
Thats why im more in favour of the proposal that the person be made to legally be required to convene a meeting and get permission from the members of his/her constituency instead.
What needs to be set is a specific procedure for obtaining the concent – which can be enforced in a court of law if the person later refuses to comply
Susan Toh
November 12, 2010
Haris
I propose that you seriously consider offering yourself as a national service to us, the desperate rakyat.
It is comforting to know that there will be no ex politicians and that includes Kua Kia Soong who is ex DAP and no BN politicians. They are such a pain…
Good luck in your planning.
I think I will sleep well tonight.
Reina
November 12, 2010
The proposed candidate selection criteria here will mark the beginning of an era where the Malaysian public will have a direct say in the selection process and with time this will spill over to other areas.
I would like to suggest the following so as to raise the level of professionalism in selected candidates:
1. selected candidates are to undergo training in
a. public speaking
b. anger management
c. negotiation skills
d. problem solving
2. selected candidates learn the power of the (mainstream and new / social) media and the need to project the right image – ie say the right things, project the right image, avoid being misquoted / used by mainstream media, know how to dodge questions that can jeopardise their position, etc
3. each selected candidate is to appoint a team of two / three people who will be taught to be capable aides / political secretaries and who will take care of the constituents.
Professionalism in candidates will increase the chances of having a higher level of service to constituents and stronger image being projected in the media.
Reina,
Excellent suggestions.
Thank you.
looes74
November 14, 2010
Reina & Harris,
I quote from your (Reina) words
“1. selected candidates are to undergo training in
a. public speaking
b. anger management
c. negotiation skills
d. problem solving
2. selected candidates learn the power of the (mainstream and new / social) media and the need to project the right image – ie say the right things, project the right image, avoid being misquoted / used by mainstream media, know how to dodge questions that can jeopardise their position, etc”
Based on Zaid’s interview in NST, you think he possess the right qualities…..Aiyaa…..
Guys,
Zaid said that we are blinded by certain personalities. He’s right……We must use our brain including reading Harris’s comment
Riyaz
November 12, 2010
Haris,
You have been mentioned to me by a common friend of ours, a lawyer.
He said that he will be arranging an introduction meeting soon, for us to meet.
Look forward to it.
Happy weekend.
Haris Ibrahim
November 13, 2010
Candidate? Great!
Riyaz
November 13, 2010
Dear sir,
Thanks for your reply.
Candidate? Wow…. That’s a big step ahead.
Don’t know if I even remotely qualify.
Let’s get a conversation going, nevertheless?
Thank you for replying.
siva
November 12, 2010
Harris,
I fully endorse whatever you have mentioned in your blog.I m wondering with such standards imposed, do you think there would be many people out there who would attempt to offer themselves as candidates for the third force?
Sean
November 13, 2010
I think it would be reasonable to drop one of the proposed tests: “an MP should be highly intelligent”. My personal feeling is that an MP should be representative of those she represents. Perhaps ‘of good character’ might adequately avoid accusations of elitism?
Interested to see what comes next.
shakuntala
November 13, 2010
Has anyone mentioned the prospective candidate possessing language skills.
Seems as if it would be handy as a requirement, to choose persons well versed in Bahasa, just so the candidate can feel comfortable with those who are not English educated.
Sounds too good to be true….enter THE PEOPLE, all breathing human passion and fire.
Have no fear, THE PEOPLE are here!
Lots and lots of luck Haris, for a people-filled weekend.
AgreeToDisagree
November 13, 2010
For transparency purposes – all closed door sessions pertaining governance issues like the one you (Haris) will be having on Sunday, should also be recorded (at least on audio, but video is safer so falsification cannot occur) for release at later dates.
The people should know what EXACTLY is going on in any CLOSED SESSION, and be able to give their feedback/opinion/votes/suggestions on the quality of ANY discussions to influence policy to their preference.
All records of public policy related meetings must be publicly available, probably through internet with open response forums. This way no wheeling and dealing behind the citizens’ backs can occur. I can imagine as of now how politicians ‘carve up’ the nation for themselves. Look at the Sand Mining scandal. 3rd Force will be so transparent that such ‘carving up’ culture will immediately end by the sheer transparency of it all.
The delay in release of minutes is only to ensure other opponent political parties will not gain an upper hand, even as the same availability of the records will become an example of transparency that opponent political parties can either match or be put down by until they adopt the same.
Any Vehicular-AP or Toll Concession or Forced Military Conscription could never be implemented again, we will see instead lowered taxes, liberal society (like building of tree houses being the norm rather than rare) and Ministers/MPs/Assemblymen of modest wealth commonplace instead of ‘Towering Billionaires’ intent on building billion ringgit towers, because collusion in-house (like that 750K funeral expenses LGE so badly wanted for CMs he would happily collude with pro-APARTHEID BN and Opposition DAP) can no longer occur again and will instead be abolished or rubberstamped into oblivions – see which MPs oppose such removals, those are the self serving. Try the below link on collusions in healthcare for an example.
http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,84168,00.html
Also demand that any future Ministers/MPs/Assemblymen/Councillors of a certain level of wealth fully FORGO salaries and allowances, ESPECIALLY allowances for merely attending meetings, which is ethically offensive when a salary is already being given.
Those below such levels of wealth who take the further step of forgo salaries or even pensions, should be given special consideration for their noble mindedness – such or equivalent actions like forgoing of allowances and pensions, supporting of charities WITH OWN MONIES should be the criteria in state award considerations, not pay offs of Award’s Committees or ‘Runners’ .
This is as transparent as any party can get (rightfully so as well, representatives are only existent because everyone can’t squeeze into parliament building to make decisions on passing bills, though computers could even make that possible quite shortly). This timed release of all closed meetings would likely set a precedent even in the ‘First World’.
Politics is not for careerists, it will only be for altruists to prove themselves (to prevent conflict of interest or potential bribery, individuals who are too wealthy or heavily invested in industry or local business scene MUST also be barred), and 2 terms of service will be the maximum in a environment that will be monetarily unrewarding, that forbids cults of personality or allow ANY nepotism of any degree, that makes ‘power mongering’ meaningless, that is entirely transparent and only for those appropriately qualified, patriotic and inclined to a better society ONLY.
That way all the scum will be disinclined to join politics because it will be all about service and stepping aside. If they like money and power, they can set up private companies instead and even there when they cut enough throats, they will find their partners and associates and employess turning against them as well.
Implementing all these will kill off the corruption, make cronyism impossible, make proxies impossible, and thus begins the clean up of governance. Collate these thoughts into your proposal/rules/selection-criteria as well Haris. Thanks to 3rd Force MCLM (*IF* not dr.Evil inspired or any trojan in itself!?! Independent candidates be prepared fr betrayals and run for yourselves in that case – even though unlikely I HOPE . . . ) the idealistic/altruistic expressions of governance, opportunities for the same among Malaysians can become a reality.
Last of the ethical Mohicans? I’d say we’re about to proliferate, especially if 3rd Force MCLM is not some plant or foreign fifth columnists.
Mr. Mickey
November 15, 2010
[i]”like that 750K funeral expenses LGE so badly wanted for CMs he would happily collude with pro-APARTHEID BN and Opposition DAP”[/i]
Look man, politicians, whether they be from the Pakatan or the BN are the same.
Their ultimate aim is Money, Fame and Power.
LGE is no exception. He, being the son of LKS, has obviously been taught well by his dad, so much so that even in his first term as the CM of Penang he already has schemes to fleece the people of Penang – for example, the [b]50 Million Ringgit White Elephant, aka, the “PICC”[/b] !!
4RAKYAT
November 13, 2010
if the majority of the 222 constituencies in malaysia is urban and english speaking, u stand a chance. this is utopian.
the urban folks are mainly with pakatan already. u need to convert the kampong (non-english speaking, tv3 fans, utusan fans, yang telah diperbodohkan oleh umno selama 53 tahun…) VOTERS. jadi, masuk kampunglah… tanya khabar pakcik2 makcik2…
the way i look at it, postal voters – in umno’s pocket. for god’s sake, don’t abandon/ignore the kampong folks/voters.
i try not to, but i have an uneasy feeling this is almost a syok-sendiri exercise by a bunch of english-speaking urban activists socially networking over tea and cookies, discussing ideas/ideals that are of no significance whatsoever to UMNO fans, ideals that are already in the hearts and minds of the majority of umno-hating urban well-informed folks.
in short, a waste of great minds and scarce resources. better go into the kampungs, feldas, deep sabah, deep sarawak etc… they are the ones that NEED TO BE CONVERTED! i, and like-minded folks, are already solidly committed to KUBURKAN UMNO.
after u KUBURKAN UMNO and install PAKATAN RAKYAT, then u have a TWO-PARTY SYSTEM. only then, if u still have spare time from your near full-time task of monitoring between UMNO and PAKATAN, then do u consider a so-called THIRD FORCE.
umno has police, macc, ag, judiciary, the sultans etc… all working for it. and here we have intelligent committed luminiaries like u, instead of focusing on killing the devil, now picking on the insignificant issues. umno and its lapdogs are in synergy. poor pakatan… friendly ngos are not with u. these ngos are more interested in stiff-neckingly following their utopian ideals. it’s as though we are dealing with a fair-playing umno. sigh…
why spread it thin…? i mean, it’s not like we (me, u and all those who HATES AND WANTS TO KUBURKAN UMNO) have a lot to work with. i mean $$$$ and time. ge13 is lurking in the horizon and here u guys r now trying to re-invent the wheel.
for all its shortcomings, let those pkr fellas be, for now. i am not asking u to trust them, i am urging u to USE them. they (PAKATAN) are already a force. piggy-back on them. help them. that is, and only if, u r committed to KUBURKAN UMNO more than anything else.
i am just being practical and looking at realpolitik. to me, no one can be worse than umno. it has to die. betul betul mati. baru lah malaysia ada harapan. kalau tidak, u orang berbuih2 pasal 3rd force, 4th force…semua syok-sendiri and, frankly, self-serving.
sorry haris.
4RAKYAT
Mad Logic
November 13, 2010
This is really a false dichotomy. It is not about abandoning the cause of “kuburkan bn” but making sure that after the vacuum created by the demise of bn it does not suck in all manner of self-serving miscreant. PKR’s intense internal wrangling was partly due to the false belief that PR will march into putrajaya and those in positions of influence and power in PKR will be awarded/rewarded with the same in government.
What haris and gang are doing has great merit and will put in place a standard and a culture of accountability and transparency that will not only help create a much healthier political environment but also will provide the rakyat with much more credible parliamentarians than what we have today.
It is a worthy cause and should be supported. The fear of a 3 way or 4 way split in the election is really unfounded. Nobody wants that, least of all haris and gang.
First try to understand, then you can judge.
4RAKYAT
November 13, 2010
academics and rhetorics vs realpolitik.
mine was not meant to be dichotomy at all, if u care to read carefully.
my reply to yours here would be the same as my reply to michatan2000 8.04am below.
i am not saying that haris&gang is abandoning (as in totally abandoning). i am asking why spread it thin?? read my piece again lah.
galvanise all soldiers and resources to aim at the heart of the evil forces; the heart is black and means umno. kill umno, everybody will live happily ever after – barring a bad apple or two.
to me, umno is worst and the ultimate evil. if to kill umno i inadvertently voted in a lesser devil, so be it. i have no time nor sufficient resources to play rhetorics, spew meaningless utopian ideals, engage in banalities….while rome is burning as i type.
my aim is to move to kill. then assess the situation. fast. and on target. everything else is manageable and negotiable.
read my simple solution in not so many words below in my reply to michatan2000 8.04am.
Mad Logic
November 13, 2010
4Rakyat,
What you had claimed came from a divided mind-set. You believe that the 3rd force will divide the resources of the opposition but such thinking is fallacious. Read again and understand what haris and gang are trying to do.
They are not spreading out – they are offering tangible and credible support to the campaign against the “evil” umno as you had put it. The only difference is that the people they are offering are credible and had been screened, capable, put through the baptism of fire by public criticism and most importantly untainted by past associations.
They are offering something of great value to the opposition forces. All they asked is to be recognised. Anwar himself had said he had made mistakes in ge 2008. The 3rd force will provide not a quick fix but a credible and powerful addition to the opposition forces. Why fight it ?
4RAKYAT
November 13, 2010
yes, i am fighting this initiative by haris&gang bcos i feel they shld hv put their time (every precious minute of available) to other, what i would say is, more constructive exercise like hitting umno where it hurts most i.e. umno’s blind and ignorant loyal fans. for now, nothing counts but every single vote come ge13.
yes, i believe we cannot exercise moderation and gentlemen ways in fighting umno. i am an extremist in fighting umno. one has to be. it gets dirty. and it’s gonna cost a lot. so i chip in a ringgit or two every now and then. i know haris&gang is trying to make lives better for malaysians (by kicking out umno; or in my lingo, killing umno) but to do what they are trying to do now is both a waste of scarce resources and going too slow. i am saying that bcos ge13, i believe, is just a few months away.
if haris&gang are doing this as a recreational exercise, then i won’t say a word more. if they, like u said, are helping pakatan indirectly in their own unique way, i say this is a s….l…o…w… fire engine to the scene of a fire. yes, we are in hell right now. we are. the house in on fire. every waking minute of it, we have umno’s dick lodged inside our anus, and have been so for the past 50 odd years… it’s still lodged inside our anus (try feeling your nether regions…), and here u are encouraging haris&gang to continue with this ill-timed amateurish exercise? the direct impact on umno is negligible. this can be done AFTER pakatan gets to putrajaya, at a time where the devil himself is killed. u don’t stand by the pondside and preach the importance of swimming lessons to a drowning man, do u? u save him first. then u talk about swimming lessons. get my drift here?
oh, speaking on screening of potential candidates, hadn’t bush dubya gone thru the most strictest screenings imaginable in the world of politics? with all those intra-replubican selections and replubican-democrat debates and interviews and tests? in my opinion, he sucked as a president. so there u go…
please haris, say that u r doing this as a break from the harsh routine u have in your day job. and that this is merely recreational. an excuse to engage other civil societies. with that, at least i can move on.
but if u r thinking this is going to have a great impact on the mother-of-all-causes (to kill umno, to liberate malaysia, supaya rakyat boleh merampas balik negara tercinta dari cengkaman iblis syaitan yakni umno), then i’m not with u on this. i’d say it’s childish.
but in no way does my respect for what u’ve done so far and will continue to do here in this people’s parliament and sabm’s platforms diminish. no sir, u’r still da man.
Mad Logic
November 14, 2010
A lot of fire and brimstone signifying squat.
If you use only half of the hot air you spout here you could power the effort of haris and gang or perhaps even a kampung 😉 .
If haris and gang do not do what they are attempting to do now those people who come forward to offer themselves to help and save the nation from the likes of umno and many of its alter-ego in pkr would not be in the picture and pakatan rakyat would be a lot poorer for it. Our nation deserves better and the like of azmin and his cahoot is not it.
Comparing the screening of bush with what haris is proposing is like comparing apples with durian. Is PR screening perfect and has no room for improvement ? What haris is proposing is to return power to the people and when this is done it is ALWAYS better and worthy of support.
4RAKYAT
November 15, 2010
madlogic, why dont u ask haris&gang to spend a month on each potential candidate? that way, every1 can pretend that umno is not gonna call for election until the feb 2013. hey, come to think of it, we still have more than 3 years. yippee…! umno’s gonna be a good boy and play fair. tv3 and utusan and all those mighty lapdog govt machineries are just gonna twiddle their thumbs and do nothing while they wait for haris (and you, as a stauch supporter of this exercise) to complete this task. dont worry, there’s still time. you can encourage haris to come up with task#2, task#3 etc…. till umno asks u if u r ready for ge13. that’s bcos umno cannot call for ge13 until all your school projects (yes, this is what i’d call them) are completed.
i hv a gem of an idea that haris can consider for task#2. spend another 3 to 6 months to engage in a study/poll to see perhaps we should go into the kampungs and pendalaman in sabah/sarawak to engage the natives and warga kampung yang telah dan masih diperbodohkan oleh umno. then wait another 3 months for the results. then call for another group of networking and cocktail sessions with friendly ngos. by now, it should be a year from start date. what? umno still sleeping for the past one year? well and good.
we move on to task#3. this time, i let u come up with your gem of an idea. what type of school project would u recommend further to haris?
let’s all come up with more lofty ideals so that every single one of them pakatan parties and friendly ngos can indulge into studies….and trips to london for friends of pakatan (i mean, there must be about 500 registered voters outside malaysia that are willing to come back just to vote. wow! 500 of them! let’s spend months and hundreds of thousands of ringgit to chase after these 500. so what if umno can just throw some goodies, build a surau in a kampung and get 2,000 votes just like that. yeah, so what).
if by 2012, results from the various tasks say that we should really, perhaps, hit umno where it hurts most, only then do we spend another 3 months to gather info/logistics to send pakatan soldiers into the kampungs.
do not worry. do not fear. umno’s gonna be a good boy and wait for us to complete school project#1, #2, #3…..
who t-fk is questioning the merits of such exercise? who in their right mind would? i am objecting (very strongly) to it bcos of its timing. timing. as in “not now, rome is burning. now drop everything else and go put out the fire before u sit down for dinner and studies (school projects)”.
that’s my message.
i wanna give up. i am absof-kinglutely tired of repeating myself. god, i need a rest. i thought we stood a chance….
Mad Logic
November 16, 2010
My goodness. Chill out bro.
Take a deep breath, hold it until your face turn blue and then take a slide inhale and slowly release.
You have too much wind in your head – tou fung.
You need to re-examine your perspective.
AgreeToDisagree
November 13, 2010
PROPOSALS FOR ADVANCED DEMOCRACY FOR 3rd FORCE
USA, UK and Malaysia, are *Representative Democracies* (2nd class version of democracy) and thus not even truly an open system being limited to the whims and fancies of parliamentarians alone. *Participatory Democracy* (1st class version of democracy) is a process emphasizing the broad participation of constituents in the direction and operation of political systems.
It avoids the concept of the people having a single view with the inevitable limitations that come from trying to agree what that view is. Government is heavily decentralized into smaller independent groups to allow personalized preferences within groups to be expressed in a functional manner PREFERRED by each particular group.
The system seeks to avoid problems with centralized and electoral governance, while still providing a stable democratic system and ensuring all forms of human expression especially those diametrically opposed to be allowed expression. For example theocrat moralists / and sin industries (adult or gambling) can all be represented and functional even while proponents within each group do not use or believe in the other.
Under *Participatory Democracy*, all expressions will have their own place, albeit in a highly separated manner.
Include these below comments/ideas/safeguards on the below links into the 3rd Force governance paradigm :
Shadow cabinet Thursday, October 14, 2010 (Ktemoc) Authoritarianism vs. Seperation of Powers and Complacency of Citizens
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=318515515322&topic=15643
Unsuitable to Vote : Individuals Causing Notable Conflict of Interest in Local Council Elections – Original Article 6th
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=318515515322&topic=15468
***THE BELOW 3 ITEMS***
1) Freedom from Apartheid/Fascism
2) Freedom from Religious-Persecution/Religious-Supremacy.
3) Equality for all ethnicities and faiths in all aspects of policy, Law and Constitution.
*** AND ***
Not so grey areas/safeguards that MUST be addressed starting with and later matched-to/extrapolated-upon other areas where equivalent abuses occur :
Compensation for Rep’s Kin – by Sunday Star – 18th APR 2010
http://hi-in.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=318515515322&topic=13447
The Gambier Threat – Mid 2010
http://jeremiahfoo.com/?p=5887&cpage=1#comment-100231
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=318515515322&topic=14724
The column that wasn’t – Marina Mahathir – 3rd March 2010
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=318515515322&topic=13433
Do set up local branch offices once the political party is formalized so that people can join up easily.
AgreeToDisagree
November 13, 2010
Also include the below considerations :
Elections should be made into a constantly shifting and weighed approval rating system with no cut off dates.
As new voters enter, or as issues arise in councillor/MP/assemblyman failures to act responsibly to citizens in amendments of by laws or in the manner by-laws are applied, the
voters should be able to register and affect who continues sitting as councillor/MP/assemblyman.
A less than 50% approval rating requires a new election to be called, with the next most popular candidate immediately replacing that councillor/MP/assemblyman and an election being called as well.
A less than 30% approval rating immediately results in the current councillor/MP/assemblyman being banned from running up to a period of 10 years.
Councillors/MPs/assemblymen who have sat for 2 terms may not run again as well. This is more democratic than cut off dates and 2 years where the citizen is helpless to remove offending councillors/MPs/assemblymen they thought would be good.
Think of this as a constant state of election based on approval ratings. So in this way Councillors/MPs/assemblymen cannot take for granted their seats for and have to toe the Rakyat’s line and obey their wishes.
Shawn Tan
November 13, 2010
Real KPIs!
HuaYong
November 13, 2010
Agree boy, step by step, we don’t even know how to vote and how to conduct a fair election / poll. Please keep reminding ourselves what is the priority, ada paham?
AgreeToDisagree
November 13, 2010
@huayong,
These are to make the 3rd Force’s intent clear to the voters. If they know that we will implement a superior system, they would be happier to vote for us than the opaque political parties correct?
michatan2000
November 13, 2010
Dear Haris,
Has anyone ever asked why BN members mati mati want to be candidates for election. And after being elected, they mati mati do not jump ship.
And as we all highly suspect or know, the reason why PR assemblymen and MPs jump ship.
For the money lah. Power brings control. And control is not only about people and policies, it is also about managing the money or wealthy of the nation. Why do you think Petronas is under the PM’s control
The only way to ensure integrity of PR candidates, i.e. to not jump ship, is to capture Putrajaya. When PR is in Putrajaya, I can bet you none of their elected candidates will jump. No more reason to jump ship. No more offers for their loyalty. In fact, BN elected candidates may defect to PR.
So Haris and RPK, get real. The ONLY solution is to get PR to Putrajaya and hold their leaders accountable to their election pledges. If they don’t keep their word, we the voters will vote them out the next time around.
THIS is called a TWO PARTY system and democracy, where voters have a viable choice. GET IT?
4RAKYAT
November 13, 2010
ya lah. once pakatan gets hold of putrajaya, amend the election laws to prohibit jumping. end of story.
for now, focus 100% (not 80%, not 95%…) on how to KUBURKAN UMNO.
anna brella
November 14, 2010
Going down the route of a devil’s advocate on this, doesn’t good democracy mean that you must allow an elected MP that individual’s freedom of conscience to act in the best interests of their constituents? Isn’t an MP always elected in their personal capacity as an independent first even if they are members of a political party?
However, if the political party is a good and accountable one then the party’s political actions through the individual actions of their members elected into Parliament as MPs will align with good actions taken in the public and national interest because constituent voters (including MPs and political party members) are all citizen/resident voters of Malaysia so their wellbeing is directly linked to the good health of the nation and its economy.
So if the policies and actions of an MP’s allied political party suddenly goes bananas and his party leadership and members begin acting unaccountably and out of control like a bunch of destructive monkeys given a hibiscus in Parliament and begin to further their own or party’s self-serving interests rather than the nation’s, then shouldn’t that MP have the courage to act in his/her personal capacity and challenge his/her political party on such anti-public/national interest actions?
Being a team member of the political party, I agree the MP should voice serious concerns to the party leadership in private first. But if the MPs grievance is ignored and cannot be resolved in private then that MP must seriously consider whether to stop being a team member, resign from his/her political party and then voice his/her objections publicly in Parliament, to the free Press and general public and also explain to his/her constituents the reasons for taking that decision to resign from their affiliated political alliance and to continue as an independent MP or to join another political party or to perhaps even form a new political party.
However, the check and balance for that freedom of conscience allowed is that whenever such a decision by a sitting MP is taken then it must automatically trigger a by-election administered by the Election Commission within some fixed time period in that MP’s constituency (and where the MP can stand again as a candidate for re-election) UNLESS say, 55% (or 66% or some other agreed percentage) of the constituency’s registered voters say no to that recall by-election in their formal (written/email) responses to an official recall election questionnaire sent to all registered voters in that affected constituency by the Election Commission.
“Imagine Power To The People” John Lennon.
beng hick
November 13, 2010
Your breathtaking starting salvo thus “It is evident that politics will not save Sarawak. Politicians will not save Sarawak. It is the people who will save Sarawak…”
Big powerful words, earth shattering! As indeed the whole of your Blog of late. Power wordings. Audience enthralling. Mystifying. Bombastic. Crowd thrilling !
Provocative ! Best selling !
But ultimately where it matters to the rakyat, no substance and all unachievable. You have fallen into, sad to say the classic “empty vessel ” writer’s trap.
Keep it simple my friend
AgreeToDisagree
November 13, 2010
ah pls correct before posting the comment heh . . . add in the . . . *IS* . . . THIS *IS* KEEP THEM STUPID
sensible guy
November 13, 2010
When you disagree, try to be smart …& sensible.
…so far you are not, just blindly trolling on
AgreeToDisagree
November 14, 2010
Ditto. And guess who’s trolling?
sampahman2
November 13, 2010
Haris
I am still trying to understand what you guys are trying to do ( or what 3rd dream you will cook up ). Your objective/intention seem to be good (tho intricately utopic) and while on the face of it decidedly praiseworthy as to get the perfect individuals to become our elected reps in Parliament. But I just cannot understand the mechanics of the final implementation of your proposal, after this elaborate talking/meeting stage
Your proposed candidates come from exemplary common people in society ( I would imagine ) but are not into politics, with no backroom skeletons ( if ever that is possible ) yet they will ultimately become political candidates & stand for elections. Who are these phantom candidates ?
How will your phantom candidates ( are they human? ) as you have selected (whom, how , what ? ) match into PKR, DAP & PAS’s own scheme of down-to-earth ( or otherwise ) candidates ? What executive powers will your 3rd force have ? Are you committee members on top or below them ? what powers does the 3rd force have ? From the rakyat ? How ? Peoples’ Power ? Demonstrations ? Bersih 3 , 4 & 5 ? Are you guys independent of them or what ? And if so why should PKR, DAP & PAS get instructions from the 3rd force ?
There are thousands of operational, managerial , financial, administrative etc etc matters to be sorted out before you can even take a step forward.
Dreams and reality are different things.
I would imagine the REAL THIRD FORCE are reps from Pakatan Rakyat ( ie the grouping from PKR, DAP & PAS ), and no other.
Your imaginary third force is actually the lame future 4th Force ( fake/wannabe Pakatan Rakyat ) as I see.
Unless & until you can galvanise the real people of Malaysia-rakyat ( who are they ? Malays 60%, Chinese 25%, Indians 10% ) to support you in total, your this initiative is a nightmare in progress.
You are actually talking about Pakatan Rakyat.
AgreeToDisagree
November 13, 2010
As I suggested. I think 3rd Force will challenge the most offensive people in either faction first. The main bulk of ‘culling’ of the ‘herd mentality types’ will be after GE14. Haris is no fool to cause the downfall of Pakatan, he will likely target specific nepotists, patronage cliques for GE13 first. The idea is not to let them get entrenched to become another UMNO thats all.
Bryan
November 13, 2010
Dear Haris;
A very good initiative on paper.There are some credible candidates from current political parties who are really fighting on issues like graft & social issues but ended in paying for their careers like Kuli & Otk & Teng Chang Kim. Are we really going to penalized such candidates? They have Good Track Records.
To forward us with candidates who are without background is also a scary option. We may have credible candidates but plated as trojan horses if these candidates are heavily funded.
Do take into consideration people like Datuk Ambiga who fought sincerely for the people. She is capable & highly self motivated. Even Marina Mahathir makes a fine candidate as she spearheads many women initiatives. Her only flaw is she is the daughter of the famous father.
Also we must be aware that absulute power corrupts as happen in most NGO’s where people just love to fight for positions.
Let the best candidates win with a GOOD character back ground & abilities in their field. We cannot have a Health Minister who do not understand medicine or just a General Medical Practitioner disguising as a Marketing Specialist.
Neither can we have only Religious Scholars handling economics. Or a half past six graduate engineer as deputy education minister who is suffering from superior inferior complex.
Dwell more into such aspects. In the end ask yourselves as ordinary citizens or take everyone into account as your own children or parents how you would like them to live a fruit full life.
Then only will we know whether these ” capable crooks ” can administer the country.
Good Luck & All the Best..
Sharing
November 15, 2010
1.In which way Ambiga is considered as working sincerely for the People? What made her a Datuk or Dato?
2. What has she done in enforcing the Ethics or Discipline of the lawyers when she was the Secretary (before 2007) and the President (2007-2009) of the Bar?
3. On the Lingam case, being a question of the Ethics and Discipline of a “senior” or “famous” lawyer, what had she done?
a) Right before the Lawyers’ walk in 2007, I believe she has critercised heavily on the “limited power” of the 3-man panel whose “fitness” to be in the panel were also of great public concerned. Did an EGM of the Bar been conducted to empower the BAR to walk on behalf of the lawyers? So that she can walk the Walk as President of the Bar?
b) Had she been authorised by such EGM or having the consent of her members to “Give him a Chance” to the 3-man panel instead of what was said to be a walk for a Complete RCI?
c) Should the Bar act independently to go through the Disciplinary Proceeding on the Lingam case, and provide the position of the Bar to the public instead of waiting for the findings of the RCI?
4. The DB during her period remains siding and actionless on defaulted lawyers who had cheated and even assaulted clients. No investigation or examinations but SILENT? DB even refused to provude copy of the Explanation from the Respondent to the Claimant? And, taking a list of the participants of a DB meeting as “Minutes” of the DB meeting?The Director of DB dared not even has his/her name known!!
5. She had introduced lawyers to clients to put on counterclaim onto a defamtion case raised by unethical lawyer. But, the introduced dragged and play concert with the counter party and give an irrelevant case to say no counter-claim!!
Will she be able to “serve” the people along the direction of the People Declaration?
Personally, I will take her as a Politician, the Malaysian way, FULLSTOP!!
temenggong
November 13, 2010
Generally, DAP and Pas candidates are okay, loyal. It is the PKR candidates that are a problem. However, Anwar will not accept your list, as he wants mandores around him. He has made this abundantly clear.
wandererAUS
November 13, 2010
Personally, I am not too keen to see an emergence of a “Third Force” unless, they work like a glove to a hand with PR…the only difference, the third force is independent and act as a scrutinizing machine for PR in selecting creditable candidates of high caliber in honesty and reliability…men of principle and integrity.
AgreeToDisagree
November 13, 2010
3rd Force will challenge the most offensive people in either faction first. The main bulk of ‘culling’ of the ‘herd mentality types’ will be after GE14. Haris is no fool to cause the downfall of Pakatan, he will likely target specific nepotists and patronage cliques for GE13 first. The idea is not to let them get entrenched to become another UMNO thats all.
Lynn
November 13, 2010
I agree that this is Haris’ aim and that is why I am 100% supporting him on this 3rd Force, the Barisan Rakyat. People like Datuk Ambiga is an excellent choice and I do hope that Marina Mahathir can and will be willing to break-free of her father’s influence to help save Malaysia.
AgreeToDisagree
November 14, 2010
@Lynn try these links on the 2 people you mentioned and be careful of supporting them, they are people who have attacked Pakatan in the past and could turn against the 3rd Force at any moment or even be trojans ready to cause the fall of Pakatan by infiltrating Pakatan via the 3rd Force which they will use as a TROJAN HORSE GIFT :
The column that wasn’t – Marina Mahathir – 3rd March 2010
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=318515515322&topic=13433
VIDEO Ambiga: The road to reform is tough, not much time left 30th – September 2010
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=318515515322&topic=15425
Haris does not seem like that, but if he does, rest assured that the independent candidates will carry on without supposed leadership. This is the nature of the 3rd Force, subvert any heads, and the RAKYAT itself will rise to replace.
I very much take to Dr.Kua Kia’s words on disallowing ex-politicians or people with reputations. Datin Ambiga has attacked Nizar and sided with the wrong side during the Pakatan loss of Perak, Marina Mahathir contravenes anti-Oligarchy prohibitions and can only play a background role at most. However Marian Mohktar being pro-Taib/pro-BN propagandist has been fetting Marina this while and as such we can easily see how these 2 are very likely trojans.
You yourself Lynn could be a trojan for fetting 2 potential pro-APARTHEID creeps, but to be fair, we 3rd Force must be open handed in dealing with everyone, so I will act as if you do not know the background of these 2 ladies and hope you study exhautively the 2 links I have given you.
If you are a trojan Lynn, I’d say I’m disappointed that you’d want some Malaysians to live under APARTHEID, CORRUPTION and NEPOTISM and bid you to rethink your intentions towards your fellow Malaysians aspiring to EQUALITY.
marge
November 13, 2010
Pardon me if I’ve missed out some statements along the way. These “selected candidates” or prospective candidates, which party will they eventually join? If they are already members of a party, will they be accepted based on their affiliation?
amd
November 13, 2010
academics make bad politicians. they can advise but not be candidates
Sean
November 13, 2010
Woi! In a nation of bad politicians, why not try some academics, sex-workers, hairdressers and cockroaches – how bad could they be?
Prejudice makes for bad politics.
Warga Malaysia
November 13, 2010
Some concerns have been expressed about whether Pakatan Rakyat component parties can or will work with this “Third Force”. Wonder if it would revert if not fully, at least partially, to something like the pre March 08 CSI (Civil Society Initiative) or the People’s Declaration, but greatly strengthened with more watertight clauses.
rajan
November 13, 2010
Hi Harris,
One very strong and independant candidate i would like to propose to contest in the GE13 WILL be
Jonna Jaffar{visiting the shah alam temple with flowers under your heading THE GOOD MALAYS}.
She has her own mind and {replied to my comment in a very firm manner— something to the effect of–
Mr rajan, please dont bring your racial baggage to us youngsters} That statement really really impressed me.Cant really remember the exact statement but it was good enough for me to respect her.
JONNA JAFFAR WILL BE A FINE PERSON TO CONTEST IN GE13. Pls. Consider her in your lineup.
Together with Inizah, MM’s daughter.
AgreeToDisagree
November 13, 2010
*WHO THE HELL* IS >MMMM< here!!!
AgreeToDisagree
November 13, 2010
Excuse me commentor above.
*WHO THE HELL* IS >MMMMMM< is!!!
rajan
November 13, 2010
Well, she is that sweet young lady who has the guts to stand up for what is right.
MMMM i dont know that person but I know MM{not personally} in my book she is MALAYSIAN and she is MARINA MAHATIR.
She walks her talk. I mean MM.
I think the future is in the hands of people like JUANA JAFFAR, INIZAH, NURUL.
Till someone proves me wrong.
Yadah yadah, Lets just not be a wordsmith, judge people by what they stand for and by their actions.
AgreeToDisagree
November 14, 2010
Yadda yadda eh? Abit of APCO in you? No surprise. The above post was tampered with, I did not type in MMMM.
Marina Evil Mahathir associates with pro-APARTHEID propagandists, I do not wish to associate 3rd Force with her ESPECIALLY if she hopes to become an Adun.
She creates conflict of interest as her father was a PM and a PM of a very black heart. Dr.Kua Kia, save us by condemning alongside me that this Marina Evil Mahathir is TAINTED and a trojan, causes OLIGARCHY. I’d rather have Nurul as PM than see Marina Evil Mahathir as an Adun. Even though Nurul herself as PM already is harmful enough.
Independent candidates, potential 3rd Forcers, beware of treachery and do shift to Dr.Hsu/KhooKayPeng’s platform, otherwise an alternative will have to be set up again.
Haris / RPK views on this please. We need to decide what your MCLM is or if it is a 3rd Force we can trust. How view you Ambiga and Marina in light of these 2 links?
The column that wasn’t – Marina Mahathir – 3rd March 2010
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=318515515322&topic=13433
VIDEO Ambiga: The road to reform is tough, not much time left 30th – September 2010
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=318515515322&topic=15425
rajan
November 13, 2010
I think her name is JUANA JAFFAR not jonna.Sori 4 d error.
anonymous
November 13, 2010
An obvious syok sendiri exercise which.
Your third force can only win in areas where Pakatan can win.
You cannot win in the Kampong.
Conclusion: Your third force is nothing but a spoiler.
Sharing
November 13, 2010
Jobs & Specifications
1. All Assemblyman and MP are paid by the State, therefore, they should be “Public Servant” at large.
They are Representative of the People in their respective constitution to monitor the Government for Policy making and enforcement for Accountability, Transparency and Efficiency.. They are bridges between the Government and the People. Therefore, they must know how to communicated among the parties, responsibly and ethically.
2. They are there via a “Democratic” process – the election. So, there should be rules also for “sacking”, such as initiated by how many people or percentage of voters in the constitution….then by a voting process, it will be done.
3. There should be a State and Federal Disciplinary body to look after the matter, besides the Party. I believe it could be the stand of the People Parliament, no matter who are in the Government. I hope through Constitution Reform or Law, it will become official and should have Government allocation, by percentage of Assessment or Quit Rent, etc..as they are also a part in providing Community Service.Therefore, the monitoring will not be only in one hand – the Party. Surely, the court will be the last resource, if that does not work out to the satisfaction of the parties involved. The Guidelines should be their Rights and Obligations with their Job Specifications.
4. The electing and changing should be according to if they perform ethically and efficiently. Therefore, a clear Job Specifications, with Rights & Obligations are to be there as a guideline or Rules and Regualtions under which they will be measured. We should treasure their experience. Therefore, the limitation of 2 terms can be skipped for time being, until it is necessary, if the above do not work.
Rights & Obligations
——————–
UN Human Rights should be the basis to Govern. People should target that it will be based on for the future Constitution and Law Reform and enforcement. I hope this will be included in the Declaration of those 3rd force.
PP
—
Should be a cradle for those potential MP or Assemblyman to understand and acquainted with the above so as to serve the People. PP should, if possible, provide, on
1. Training or Briefing on the Organisation Chart of the Local or Federal Government and the procedures of job that they are handling.They should be provided with the contact lists of those in each office for enquiries or whatever, to fulfil their duties. The Flow of the processing should be
available as much as possible. This includes, those Parliamental, State Assembly, or Council meeting. These procedures should, at fact, also opened to the Public.
2. The Communication Platform between those Potential as well as those selected (if they are under recommendation by PP)
3. The Communiation skills, or, Specifications. The later is more or less like those “Client Chapter”.
PP should not be a ONE Time set-up for election, but, a body to see the idea of People Declaration goes through – established, enforced and monitored. It should be also be the Disciplinary Body for those MP or State Assemblman, disregards of Party.
Their Declaration
——————
I believe, their Public Declaration via Public media should be considered as their Public offer so that anyone can challenge if they do not fulfil, as PP does not have a legal standi, unless, at least an Association is formed. I do not know if a “Committee” type of set up can be formed,at least, so that it can still have some “legal” standing. And, the members of the Committee should be formed asap so that it could be recognised as a Group action rather than just one man or people unknown.
The Declaration will then included that the Candidate, before or after election, be subjected to the Guideline, monitoring and disciplinary proceeding of PP. Therefore, they are bounded to answer enquiry and investigation and judgement of PP, according to terms and conditions. Then, this will also set the complaint channel for the People.
May be, if possible, some those Candidates should be arranged to visit Singapore, or, HK, or other possible place to see how their Government works. So, they understand why it is necessary to Reform. What and how it can be done!!
In many places, they are there because, via long term education, they have casted what are Right and Wrong with Rights and Obligations imposed in the heads of the People as well as the Public Servants.
It will be a long way to go for Malaysia. BUT IT MUST BE DONE, in order to resume Laws and Order and STOP the ROTS!!
Adminstrative Force
——————-
The 3rd Force have to be backed up by substantial Administrative Force. Please think about it and hope it will be organised asap. Such as setting up some specific Web site to collect Government Rules, Organisation Chart, Proceeding, etc.. , or enquiries. They can be done with the help of
People using their own PC via their PC and free time.
Many things have to be done to support the idea. Put them in place via Sharing of ideas and efforts!!
For the People, By the People!!
Get Human Rights in place!!
garfield city
November 13, 2010
A million words to describe the third force can only be summed up in one simple but important act ie who you cross in the ballot paper. Have Malaysians forgotten about the struggles of Gagasan Rakyat and Barisan Alternatif? They were no match to UMNO what more of you good people out there who are not even politicians. When you fight UMNO, you desperately need another UMNO. That is the reason why I said since December, 2007 that we need Barisan Rakyat as a political name to hammer Barisan Nasional. All the good things we dream about change will never, never be realised unless there is a total change in federal government. The same goes is if, IF, a good old UMNO that could bring the ringgit back to 1:1 sing dollar, there would never be a need for opposition. Only a sensible, caring and less corruptible government can bring peace and progress to a nation. So now we need a “new” UMNO to tackle this UMNO Baru to revive the glory of our ringgit. Any third force to be born will only serve to be meat for the present UMNO, remember this. We need Anwar and Pakatan at the moment to do the job. If given 5 years to prove their worth and if they fail, we can return the vote to Barisan Nasional. A vote=a third force.
Never glorify Tiannamen students as heroes. China did not begin with democracy so don’t force it upon her as we don’t wish to force communism in malaysia as we were born a democracy in 1957.
baDboyzs
November 13, 2010
This Barisan Rakyat thing as we read here has set some lofty goals. Fundamentally you want perfect candidates to sit as MPs or State Reps.
How are you going to pick such candidates ? All by yourselves ? How do you evaluate him ? What authority /power do you have?
How do you propose to work with or are you gonna work against PKR, DAP & PAS ?
What technical/financial resources do you have now to even start ?
To us this takes massive resources, much mote than RPK, Haris and any one mortal can handle. This project is not wimax, 3G or some cutting edge cyberspace internet technology but real ground work & altering complex Malaysian society paradigm.
At this point of time , this is impossible.
If you start today you might be just ready to achieve a little bit in maybe 3 general elections down the road ie 2020, if you are lucky.
sampahman2
November 13, 2010
So are you saying this Big Gung Ho Big 3rd Force Talk is just talking loud ! or Tokkok issit ?
I think Haris has nothing else to do just blogging (write on computer screen) only lah so dun take it seriously. His readers come here for free mail lah and chit chat also, like me. But some take it so seriously like the 3rd coming of Christ omg !
LOL !
rajan
November 13, 2010
Hi Sampahman2,
What i believe is that harris, RPK and co are trying to do is to supply reliable candidates for PR to consider under the PR flag.
Thats a good idea But in politics,We need streetwise people,not bullshitting but knowing what to talk where.
OK, those indians who demo at PKR HQ 2day without being involved in the party election process, is suspect.
That guy was mentioning SAmyvelu too frequently, WHY ah Macha ?
This is the time all irrelevant persons will try to be relevent.
I strongly believe that some people would have collected and doing the dirty job on behalf of the paymasters to discredit PKR.
If you would look at the faces of those “demo” guys, you would realise that they dont know what the hell is happening but just take the cue and shout.
Please lah, let PKR do what they got to do but KEEP PKR ALIVE or we all lose.
My 2 cents worth.
If i know that i’ll be out, id go all out to discredit my “foes”
High time we stood by PKR and like it or not, there is no substitute for PR.
Paul Warren
November 13, 2010
Immediate response to the post!! A little over the top!! You would lose a few good people out there from wanting to lend their names on the basis that everyone has a skeleton somewhere. But good luck anyway. You can count on my support!! But certainly I do not qualify for candidate material, even in my dreams.
lembu susu
November 13, 2010
Dear Harris,
I applaud your sincere intention n idealism in setting up the 3rd force. Looking @ the state of Malaysian politics, almost everyone is disillusion with BN or PR. It is only natural to consider a 3rd force. While I sincerely hope such a 3rd force can be viable; I also have my doubts. Below are my 2 cents worth of thoughts:-
1. We must never underestimate BN. They have been in power for 53 years n they have all the money, the media n the machinery to sway voters to their favor.
2. The classic saying, “United we stand, divided we fall” still holds true. If anyone opposing BN cannot be united, they are not a force to be reckon, n are sure to fail.
3. PR, especially PKR, is a disappointment. They r more interested in their own selfish agenda then in serving the people, tho’ not all are like that.
4. 3rd force must take concrete shape n form fast because the election is just round the corner. The questions the 3rd force has to consider r:-
i. Do u hv the ‘qualified n proven’ candidates for the coming election?
ii. Do u hv the money to fund the election campaign?
iii. Hw will the voters know that they r reliable candidates?
iv. Many times, it may fall back to ‘square one’, bcos, ‘power corrupts’. It is just human nature manifesting in BN n PR, n may soon manifest in the 3rd force. People who have not tasted power, can say one thing. But when in power, they change their tune.
v. It takes time to build a formidable force to encounter BN. Is time @ your disposal, since election is round the corner?
5. It is my humble opinion that one way is to give PR another chance with the hope that they can take hold of Putrajaya; since it has been continuous said that they are helpless because of Federal power that reins even in the states that they govern; for instance, the promise for local council election which they cannot fulfill because of Federal laws.
a. Give them another term to rule (BN has rule for 53 years, n if time is needed for PR, give it to them so that they can prove their talk. And if not, then, vote them out. In the meantime start building the 3rd force, as you need time to build it to be a force to be reckon)This is because we do not want BN in power anymore! ….unless they are transformed.
6. In the meantime, at any state or federal seats, whenever there are unreliable PR, put in the 3rd force man/lady in, so that the voters can vote this man/lady in.
These r my humble opinions.
Midnight Rider
November 13, 2010
I have been wondering that all this will come to a standstill if we seriously don’t discuss how to get our uncles,aunties,brothers and sisters in the rural areas as well as those who do not have internet to realise the plundering and the daylight robberies that has been going on all this while. So Mr. Harris, while your suggestion in selecting the right candidates is in the right direction;this meeting or another meeting should be held to find ways to approach those people. I somehow feel that BN has already started their activities in the hinterland, to coax those innocent people into trusting BN again.Do you think asking our readers for ideas and suggestion on approaching them is equally important for now? For a start let me suggest that our first approach is the use of hand phone as a tool in contacting them. Next identifying leaders(potential candidates) among them, and work with the to meet the kampong elders.Thereafter we will find ways in the meeting or through suggestions that comes in. I think BN will penetrate areas where they have eroding support or no support at all while it maintains its stronghold as well.Thank You
Jong
November 13, 2010
# Dr Kua also appears to suggest that any past politicians looking to resurrect their political fortunes in the fertile grounds of this civil society initiative be politely but firmly shown the door.#
Why not, I don’t think it’s good to slam the door at ‘past politicians’. Not all ‘past politicians’ are our enemies, and like you and I, they may have been disillioned and played out their political parties that initially gave them so much hope. So is it fair for us to punish them?
My opinion is, as long as they get through initial selection committee followed by the same stringent tests/conditions as new comers why not, why deprive them of this civil society initiative? Why deprive the nation of good talents?
Jong
November 13, 2010
And to refresh your memories, most of those PKR clowns were from the NGO, had never been ‘past politicians’, look what are they today?
AgreeToDisagree
November 13, 2010
Careful about @Rajan above he mentioned MM. Is MM dr.Evil? Is Rajan trying to sabotage 3rd Force? Haris, who is Rajan and MAKE CLEAR there will be no *MM* at all to us pls?
rajan
November 13, 2010
Mr agreetodisagree,
By MM i meant MARINA MAHATIR,yes the daughter of mahatir, but can you in any instance say that marina is a clone of mahatir.
If you read all her writings, im sure you will find her “neutral”.No hangups and so what if she is selected to be part of the third force?
But, im not talking about marina but her daughter who is one of a kind.I believe that inizah, thats her name i believe,have proved that she is MALAYSIAN FIRST.
Pls. read haris ‘s posting sometime back about the “good malays”
Of course my suggestion is only a suggestion and these are the people we must consider seriously to be the peoples rep.NOT some goody goody guys who have yet to prove themselves.
BTW, i aint no member of any political party or idolise any politician.
Im my own man .
Always look at the positive side of people and not who/where they belong.
Dr.Zul spoke up recently but was casted with some name calling /about his islamic conviction.
I know DR Zul is a better MUSLIM than that punk from kulim ZUL.
Dont be afraid of shadows ,see the light and there will be no shadows. Hehe
Jong
November 14, 2010
Don’t worry, any ‘suspicious’ characters with links, won’t even get through the initial selection committee of Third Force which I hope will owe no explanation for any of their decision to reject. That’s a right they must enforce.
Sharing
November 13, 2010
PKR/PAS/DAP have signed the People Declaration and using “PK” in some extense trying to “coalite”. However, very little can be seen that they are in that direction. However, their obligation acccording to the Declaration remains.
PP is still having the moral obligations, if not legal obligations, to see those MP or Assemblyman working in that direction. Therefore, PKR/PAS/DAP should not stop their members, candidates or existing MP or Assemblyman to sign the People Declaration personally and be held responsible to the Declaration and so to be “endorsed” by PP also as Candidates for the coming GE. Or, become an independant Candidate with reference to People Declaration. Since it is to be subjected to open debate, PP should not reject candidates from these 3 parties. Otherwise, it could mean that PP is voluntarily releasing its Rights in exercising the “agreement” between PP and the three parties.
PP should continue to be the Monitors of all Parties!!
BN candidates should also have the Rights towards working along the People Declaration, if they have the freedom from their Party. But, surely they have to come with proven records that they are qualified. And, of course, they have to quit BN before they could be considered.
With Human Rights in mind, it should not be color, race, religion, or even Party blind!! PP should open to Ethical, Capable candidates subject to specific qualifications, experience with proven records and verification.
affandi
November 13, 2010
I am chinese muslim, 64 to old for politics but can give moral support. Not affiliated to any political party. My deceased father was with MCA way back with Tunku who followed Tunku entourage to England to gain Malaysia independence. Wife malay with 4 children, 2 boys 2 girls. Retired from EPF 9 years ago. money is not important then to have a healthy life as all 3 children are self sustaining and happy with their lifes. The last son just graduated and still studying to gain future employment. No need to declare any wealth as there is nothing to declare except half a house and a car. If should I be a potential helper do drop a line.
shakuntala
November 13, 2010
Would Dr. Kua concede to considering a past politician who did what he or she did in the past, by being very honest and confessing to the truth.
Why he or she did what they did?
Because, if they confessed then, there would be the shame of repeating the same mistake again, if at all.
Then again, is it really necessary to have as a criterian in a candidate….high intelligence? What if a prospective candidate is down to earth, HONEST and without the the accompanying tag of possessing high intelligence?
Surely we do not want to be so exclusive..good common sense, in a person, is a far better attribute most times.
sensible guy
November 13, 2010
I think to put a Malaysian astronaut ( real one ) on the moon by 2020 is an easier Force than to get this 3rd Force nonsense off the Kuala Lumpur Padang !
As some have commented above, this 3rd force will be DOA ( dead on arrival )
Wake up everybody !
sampalee
November 13, 2010
Politicians can pretend to listen,but they can NEVER be guided.If politicians can in fact be guided,I will use my effort with bn and not waste time with pr.
Sheila Pakiam
November 13, 2010
Haris,
There is lot of good feedback for you to take into consideration and I pray God will you to come up with a Thrd Force that will integrate all these aspirations of the Rakyat to ensure that we get a good team of MP’s with integrity heading Putrajaya.
sheila
kjjohn
November 13, 2010
Bro,
Maybe we also need to know the longer term goal or vision of the proposed candidate; and their sincerity with which they have pursued their agenda regardless of circumtances leading up to the present. I call this the character test.
Finally we want candidate who are willing to be integrated with integrity; and without compromise!
Van Martinier
November 13, 2010
In the news today: an inadequate response from PKR president Wan Azizah on the election fraud issue.
Not a single pledge to (i) half the fraudulent election pending a thorough independent investigation, or to (ii) punish severely those found to perpetrate election manipulations.
In spite of all the letters and requests addressed to Wan Azizah, it is clear that she is utterly disappointing.
Some thought from you, Haris, might keep us readers informed and updated on this issue.
Van Martinier
November 13, 2010
I meant ‘halt the fraudulent election’, not ‘half…’. Sorry.
kiasu
November 14, 2010
Azizah is puppet president. Better abandon PKR before AAA abuse it further. People have been cheated and taken for a ride by Anwar and PKR.
Redhuan D. Oon
November 13, 2010
The checklist is too idealistic. I doubt even Great Britain has such candidates. My criteria of a candidate is someone who is not too smart, unbelievably humble and always serving. Some sort of a cross between Lee Lam Thye and Tengku Razaleigh.
AgreeToDisagree
November 14, 2010
Redhuan D. Oon:
Actually such candidates are everywhere the world over, but lack the background or impetus or need identification and invitation to step forward. They feel they have no right, but most definitely exist.
Just so you know, Lee Lam Thye unconscionably and summarily and most in a most *AUTHORITARIANIST MANNER* IGNORED the voluntary clause request for Military Conscription making it into Forced Military Conscription and this resulted in many deaths and ONLY benefited rent seekers. Please reconsider fetting Lee Lam Thye again, Tengku Razaleigh has had a somewhat less than perfect record on cronyism and lack of transparency as well, but I believe the years have made him into a better politicans than most so on Tengku Razaleigh at least, I concur with you.
matthew francis
November 13, 2010
Only a third force led by dr mahathir assisted by rpk and zaid can save us. dr m is mahathma gandhi of malaysia. malaysia will not survive without his super human wisdom.
mimosa
November 13, 2010
Dr M a mahathma gandhi indeed ! Not on your life, especially with that perpetual sardonic sneer on his lips. Sorry for being personal, but just could not resist this jibe whenever some one tries to make such farcical comparison. hahahaha….
flawless
November 13, 2010
Your proposal of a civil society movement to secure unblemished candidates in your mold to stand for the coming election has major flaws.
1. How do you get such perfect candidates
( do they exist )
2. why would a perfect person stand for election
( for the money, for fame , for society ?)
3. what authority/power does your committee have
( are you an association, NGO, society, or a firm of consultants eg APCO )
4. How do you get members of the public Rakyat to support you and vote for the candidates ( this 3rd force or new political party ? )
5. Are you independent of other political parties ?
etc etc etc
I somehow believe you are actually talking about forming a new political party , not a ridiculous 3rd force
AgreeToDisagree
November 14, 2010
I’ll presume to answer on his behalf, cos Haris is always terse and uncommunicative here on the forum. At least he drops a word or 2 at times unlike the worst of forums! Ok here goes :
1. How do you get such perfect candidates
( do they exist ) YES THEY DO. Such candidates are everywhere the world over, but lack the background or impetus or need identification by, and invitation to step forward. They feel they have no right partly due to conditioning and lack of experience, but most definitely exist.
2. why would a perfect person stand for election
( for the money, for fame , for society ?)
ONLY FOR SOCIETY, THEN THEY LEAVE THE COMMITTEE OR MP/ASSEMBLYMAN POST AFTER 2 TERMS, BUT NOT BEFORE GROOMING *ETHICAL RIGHT MINDED NON-NEPOTISTIC* SUCCESSORS
3. what authority/power does your committee have
( are you an association, NGO, society, or a firm of consultants eg APCO ) ANY OF THOSE CAN BE FORMED WITH 7 MEMBERS, NO BIG DEAL AT ALL (personally have some people in the background who have run these things before, nothing special and they would happily advise)
4. How do you get members of the public Rakyat to support you and vote for the candidates ( this 3rd force or new political party ? ) LOTS OF PEOPLE HERE, JUST GIVE THE WORD
5. Are you independent of other political parties ?
etc etc etc PAKATAN FRIENDLY, BUT READY TO STRIKE DOWN OFEFNDING PAKATAN CANDIDATES, ANTI-APARTHEID SO EFFECTIVELY ANTI-BN save for a handful in BN who do not believ in apartheid
I somehow believe you are actually talking about forming a new political party , not a ridiculous 3rd force (HE AND THE REST OF US CERTAINLY ARE! WHATS SO RIDICULOUS ABOUT NOT HAVING A POLITICAL *BAGGAGE* PARTY WEIGHING DOWN YOUR ETHICAL COMPASS???)
How about you @flawless, you could be a ‘leader’ at time too! Lets implement these suggestions and put an end to the b.s. that is government!
jamie
November 13, 2010
Looking at the 59 comments before me, it is abundantly clear many of the commentators dunno what they are talking about !
Haris is on an impossible project with a possible success rate under 1 %.
Why ? He and his gang have a very rudimentary grasp of basic human behavior.
Humans do not follow you as they ought to and as you want them to. In the main society is uncontrollable, unless you have a Gengiz Khan, Hai Hitler, Alexander the Great,or a Marcos , Suharto and/or yes , the great Mahathir
Kua, Haris or RPK – ha you must be joking
Parli-Man
November 13, 2010
Haris, you truly are a first world activist
shocked
November 13, 2010
Holy Mother Virgin Mary !
Haris – you must be bonkers ! How can such a mega scheme succeed ! How can you get a few million sleeping Malaysians to support your Don Quixote cause ! For your information, 80% of Malaysians live in the rural areas and more than 50% have never heard of the internet ! Another 60 % couldn’t be bothered !
Is Utusan or Berita Harian and the Star with you on this one ? If so your chances of succeeding is 5%.
If not your chances is next to 0.
I am not kidding, don’t waste your precious time and that of your readers ( most of whom are so naive, like little children)
AgreeToDisagree
November 14, 2010
Don’t be shocked. If Haris/RPK is a trojan, any Rakyat could be a 3rd Forcer as well. I am having much concern that Marina Mahathir and Datin Ambiga could be involved in MCLM now, which effectively turns MCLM into a suicide bomber.
This of course was what @Rajan was pushing though Haris/RPK have made no mention. Study the links below on the backgrounds of the so called personalities :
The column that wasn’t – Marina Mahathir – 3rd March 2010
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=318515515322&topic=13433
VIDEO Ambiga: The road to reform is tough, not much time left 30th – September 2010
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=318515515322&topic=15425
Dr. Kua Kia Song, any relation to Kua Geok Choo? Please clarify. If so, this faction of 3rd Force is also finished, leaving Haris and RPK as the real 3rd Force.
All the decent gals and guys here, don’t be surprised if you end up on your own as 3rd Force candidates even. Have courage and be your own leaders in your constituencies. We do not need to be under the authority of any party, those with the funds or networks to run as independents be fully prepared for treachery and charge on ahead whatever happens, it is your country, and to take it from the evil, good men must not lie fallow.
sampahman2
November 14, 2010
Thanks for your 2 facebook links.
This whole 3rd force bullshit initially came from I believe, RPK. He is a good man and a terrific and brave writer/activist. What I see is that his 3rd force suggestion is a check & balance concept and just a preliminary idea but which in truth cannot be implemented yet in a place like Malaysia ( 3rd World with no freedom of press ) where people are mostly Muslims & rural ( infact these same problematic docile gullible people are countryside bumpkins/ignoramus with 6-10 year old mentalities). Perhaps in Norway or Switzerland where 90% of the population are mature and educated ( 1st world , this 3rd force dream may have a decent chance. hell no ! Not in Malaysia – not yet of course !
Haris himself while an intelligent damn hardworker and a man of some principle ( I think )is unfortunately lost on this one issue, but I am sure not you and me. I am crystal clear this whole thing will collapse before it even starts & Dr Kua will be laughing, again.
Agree to disagree Sir ?
AgreeToDisagree
November 14, 2010
If Dr.Kua is not related to Minister Lee Kuan Yew, he really should not be laughing and help people here form a truly neutral and transparent 3rd Force ready to implement various suggestions to better governance.
Haris may have been taken for a ride (or is the rider behind riders? Who knows but we will see and be ready for that!) but as said before, ANYONE can be 3rd Force by subscribing to the various conflict of interest/vested interest/oligarchy-nepotism prohibitions mentioned throughout these posts, a 3rd Force will not fail. The problem is people with commitment and the fear/selfishness factor.
Running as a private candidate or leading any faction of 3rd Force could be done by anyone too.
Don’t think too highly of the political institution or make it out to be so special, it is total b.s. and a waste of time – I’d rather be living my own life (contrary to opinion most 3rd Forcers here have lives too) but if we give any bad factions carte blanc (including the supposed saviours), life will become ibncreasingly difficult with GST/VAT and these on top of Toll Concessions/Vehicular-APs/Forced Military Conscriptions and APARTHEID and possibly the worst of Hudud if we don’t at least engage and discuss if not form a 3rd Force.
I’d say keep on friendly terms with ALL right minded MPs/Assemblymen, meanwhile but slam nepotists/patronage clique beneficiaries to hell!
For a debut, 3rd Force (the REAL one) only need challenge the most offensive candidates on either side so that when people ask why, we have a good reason and also raise awareness of ethical matters as well. A green party sort of?
@sampahman and @A Malaysian you seem quite aware of the b.s. here, if Dr.Kua is not a Lee Kuan Yew fifth columnist/nepotist, Haris and a handful of *SINCERE* 3rd Forcers here are still a viable alternative that of course needs to start work from scratch nominally guided by any friendly MPs in existing coalitions who do believe in honest governance. Remember, throughtout both coalitions there are people who despise cliques and nepotism and will not allow these corrupted paradigms as well. They can be *OUR* 3rd Force trojans ANYTIME.
So I would say that 3rd Force is very much alive still! Drop the bad members for there are no leaders, we who appear from the Rakyat itself are all leaders unafflicted by corrupted moral compasses of political parties, and can run as private candidates!
Any who at least would make the effort to run as a private candidate (and lots of people who can afford but have not committed simply because they think they lack ‘leadership’ it’s a myth everyone is a leader duh … or try to ‘save face’ or think they are ‘smart’ to justify selfishness etc.) Get the hell off your whinging and cringing and do something to rubberstamp into oblivion all the above b.s..
Anywhere anyone and everyone with a sense of ethics outside the limits of ‘political parties’ is 3rd Force. The Rakyat itself (at least those with a sense of ethics) is the 3rd Force.
Have I made your crystal clarity clear on what we need to do? Don’t write 3rd Force off yet, and don’t be an inadvertent cybertrooper by recommending Dr. Kua laugh when it falls apart.
Alan C.
November 15, 2010
Sampahman2:- “…..a place like Malaysia …where people are mostly Muslims & rural ( infact these same problematic docile gullible people are countryside bumpkins/ignoramus with 6-10 year old mentalities).”
With this kind of attitude and infantile mindset against the 70% Malay/Bumiputra majority, you and whatever you stand for are doomed boy. Now they have one more reason to NOT vote for the alternative, whether bumbling PR or bigoted 3rd Force. Your twisted racism has made the UMNOnik’s job much easier.
We sure don’t need bigots like you in Haris’ 3rd Force. We need patriots who will appeal to the 70% Malay/Bumiputra majority.
Otherwise, this is nothing more than the latest time-wasting project by lost late middle-aged folks yearning for a past that never was.
AgreeToDisagree
November 16, 2010
Alan C., good on the slamming. But who knows who is a cybertrooper and who is just inexperienced or a trojan. @sampahman seems to be rather suspicious though we must not hammer people like him too hard.
Besides the hardcore supporters, there is a group that bends with the political wind, lets not push too many hoping to be recruited to become millionaire lapdogs (pro-Apartheid factions can’t ‘feed’ everyone so why not just be ethical it will at least guarantee a clear conscience) into hardcore roles but rather try to get them to end apartheid and effect the below 3 items :
1) Freedom from Apartheid/Fascism
2) Freedom from Religious-Persecution/Religious-Supremacy.
3) Equality for all ethnicities and faiths in all aspects of policy, Law and Constitution.
It’s just money, don’t be greedy and live under apartheid at the expense of everyone else and Malaysia’s reputation.
foojy
November 13, 2010
If the 3rd force proceeds I would suggest:
1. The candidates selected shd report back to the consituency/rakyat periodically ( every 3 months?) on what they have done and what their stand will be on major policy decisions that they need to make a stand on once they get elected. This is so the rakyat can participate in major policy decisions and make their views heard. Many times we support a candidate but when they are elected they make their own decisions where the majority of the rakyat/constituents may not agree with. Look at our MPs/ADUNS now. How many of them actually get back to face the rakyat regularly on what they are doing and also on major policy decisons.
2. In order for the 3rd force to not be splitting the success of the current Pakatan, I would suggest that the 3rd force candidates go for those seats where Pakatan is weakest. Of course that would make finding candidates a little more difficult. No point having a 3rd force candidate competing for say Theresa Kok, Hannah Yeoh or Tony Pua etc constituency right. This way, 3rd force will complement the combined effort to bring down UMNO/BN and we can have a better chance of a 2 party system.
3. Name the 3rd force candidates early and also the constituencies they will compete in now, way before the next general election date is announced. That way, the constituents will know who these 3rd force candidates are and these candidates can start to work the ground now. You will also get early feedback of whether these 3rd force candidates are accepted by the constituents and what is the possible chance of success. Its is also a good pre-testing ground for these “fresh” candidates.
4. These 3rd force candidates should endorse and be mandated to work towards a few key policies which is important to Barisan Rakyat. By key, I mean policies which are important steps to change the current political paradigm where everything is about race, class, religious bigotry etc to a politics of ideas and ideology and the least amount of corruption. These KPI’s if you like will show whether these candidates are fulling the purposes you set out to achieve.
I fully support your other proposals.
May the Force be with the 3rd force.
AgreeToDisagree
November 14, 2010
Tony Pua is a potential PAP fifth columnist. PAP itself is beholden to LKY and LKY beholden to the Zionist lobby in Washington. Be wary of him, he does not serve Malaysia’s best interests.
Anti Lawyer
November 13, 2010
Can we not have lawyers? Most of them are inherently liars, crooks, screwing clients money. This country is in trouble because we have too many unscrupulous lawyers. I wish we can have a civil society where we can do business and carry out our daily lives without having to deal with liars, oops, I mean lawyers.
Too much of lawyers, makes you life loya.
A Malaysian
November 13, 2010
Wow! Reading through the checklist, that is a tall order from potential candidates. Nevertheless, “Everything begins with a vision” to start with.
While some of us are worried that the 3rd Force will split the votes for Pakatan or this Third Force resources could be of other usages, just like someone has suggested VOTER-get-VOTER campaign, why don’t the rest of the right-thinking RAKYAT (the 4th Force?) reach out to the kampong and village folks ourselves?
Let Haris & Company charter their agendas while, we, the 4th Force, invisible but a powerful force to reckon with, fight against the lies churned out by the main medias and expose the blatant corruption, cronyism, abuses to these gullible folks (whether city or kampong)
As we know, Mis-INFORMATION is an influential tool to change one’s mindset.
Off topic, now that the govt has resort to Rela members as postal voters, can this nation depends on Malaysian abroad who still consider Malaysia their Home (Home is where the heart is) to come home to vote to save Her from further plunders and abuses? With such abuse, every vote counts.
Haris, how do the Rela members qualify as postal voters? Can anything in the ‘Book’ contest against it?
cm
November 14, 2010
Taken me quite a while to read the proposal and all the comments. All I can say is Wow! Not out of admiration but merely shocked speechless by the existence of such naiveties. I hasten to add I do admire your honourable purpose and love for the country and people.
Just a couple of comments:
The candidates of the qualities you folks enunciated have not been born yet and I doubt one will ever be born.
If you can find Budha, Jesus, Ghandi, to be your candidates, you would have done BN/UMNO a great favour for you will split the votes against BN/UMNO. So a classic case of paving the road to hell with your noble ideal and good intention.
I suggest you all get together and go support PR to rid of the one evil now and then work on those ideals. If you cannot do that go in your ivory tower and play chess.,.
dafasd
November 14, 2010
If its paving a road to hell, wasnt that suppose to be a good thing?
4RAKYAT
November 15, 2010
sokong 100%
AgreeToDisagree
November 15, 2010
Hah! Just like 1000 years ago people who knew how to read or write were rare. All those ‘goodly’ characters you mentioned could very well be the norm in this day and age. Are you sure it’s not just you being negative?
cm
November 16, 2010
Agreed, I am negative. Between negative and naive, I choose negative. Especially nagative towards naive. What is more important is one has to be actively and positively negative to prevent actions that portends disasterous consequence.
numbed
November 14, 2010
Its mind boggling that Haris has come up with this post ! And that there are actually people getting excited and supporting him !
Nonsensical ! Humbug ! Trash ! Balderdash !
Common people ! Don’t you see it ?
Sean
November 14, 2010
Please, not Marina Mahathir. I don’t want to be personal so … let me just get on my knees, put my palms together and produce water with my eyes.
If you could capture the leaders of PSM, give them some beauty treatments and send them on a few marketing and creative writing courses that introduced them to content written since 1960 – that might actually be our best option.
It all depends on what you want to accomplish. If you want to win, just pull some names out of a hat and run some “would you vote for…?” surveys. If you want to give people whose self-respect prevents them from voting for any of the current candidate parties, then it’s going to be hard work and you’re probably going to lose. When I lived in the UK, I always voted for losing parties and I’m proud of it. I registered my political choice, I blame everyone else for all the bad things that happened as a result of their choice and I join protests and fund charities. That feels like democracy to me.
looes74
November 14, 2010
Since you guys wanna go into the nitty gritty of selecting candidates for Parliment. Perhaps, I want you guys to watch this. Tell you what….Ideally speaking I am fully supporting of what Professor Morris is proposing……Even though it’s fictional, it’s truly democratic…..I felt that it should be implemented even in the NGOs including saya Anak Bangsa Malaysia….If there are commitees there…..Enjoy
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFE21nMD98E
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qjjYXMs8H0&feature=related
3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpwSaiY_Ehk&feature=related
4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVf4Fb9g1es&feature=related
Obviously even the british are ignorant of the fact…..Who the hell actually run the country?
Sean
November 14, 2010
The call above for ‘branches’ and reading about Kula in Perak makes me think you should avoid branches. I understand why local branches are popular, but isn’t it time to move on from MLM and freemasonry? I think you should go beyond shiny blogspot/wordpress magazines and social networking and implement ThirdDirect to make your political structure more open and flat.
common sense
November 15, 2010
Nice try Haris… because you can
Soi Nana Kathoey
November 15, 2010
By jove, this AgreeToDisagree cyberchild is a certified Class A troll. Probably planted by CSL and his UMNO ass-lickers.
Hey troll, why don’t you go get some fresh air (or get a job if that’s at all possible) and let others here have a proper discourse.
I know for a fact that you are an 18 year old PLKN dodger, a rabid fan of Namewee, and an advocate of re-merger with Singapore.
And you think YOU have a role to play here? You think this is a video game fantasy by Bro Haris & gang, where you have the audacity to imagine yourself as a candidate?
Shooo, boy, shoo ….
AgreeToDisagree
November 16, 2010
Do you speak for Haris or Lee Lam Thye or Onn? I’m waiting to ‘debunk’ if needed for now, more than anything else. If this is the People’s Parliament as claimed, I believe that I do have a role here otherwise.
What is your view on having a voluntary clause in PKLN so that we will not have Forced Military Conscriptions? And is not rejoining of Singapore to Malaysia something good that you need to speak as if it were a bad thing? All citizens have a right to try to better their country, would you take that away from another?
serious guy
November 15, 2010
If your readers are caring enough and serious enough about you Haris, they must guide you out of your miserable predicament of trying to be
the Peoples’ Hero.
You must come down to earth and help Pakatan to reach its single goal of dumping UMNO/BN.
You are on the verge of losing your mind, ever since the Zaid / Jeffrey Effect.
AgreeToDisagree
November 16, 2010
Ignore this ‘unserious’ guy. Oftimes, most visionaries are ignored for what they are worth, keep doing qwat you do Haris, I’m bby you until you are proven a failure (of judgment and not necessarily heart even then) by association with bad people that cause conflict of interest or oligarchy.
Midnight Rider
November 15, 2010
Many of us including myself are armchair critics and nothing more.You want candidates, then start looking at past gathering/protest/candlelight vigil.Look out for those who were brave enough to voice out their protest by marching and facing the tear gas and assault by FRU.Look out for the common faces that often appear. These people are those whom I call freedom fighters. They just have the raw guts to defy the corrupt establishment and I salute them for their courage. Of course some of you out there might criticise me by saying that their acts were unwise or plain stupid; but that was how the French revolution started. Please start scrutinising the real heroes from the “youtube” and other related evidences that may be available to you. Contact them and interview them or rather head hunt them. I am quite sure you might find more dedicated and honest men and women among them. Intelligence alone is not enough but raw guts like that of YB Lim Kit Siang,YB Karpal Singh, YB Lim Guam Eng and many others(forgive for not mentioning you name individually)are vital to fight the crooks.
AgreeToDisagree
November 16, 2010
A DAP cybertrooper? Just great if nepotism and oligarchy doesn’t set your non-existent ethical alarm bells off.. Protesting or having vigils are useless compared to gathering votes by raising awareness or attempting to organise a political party of independents.
amd
November 15, 2010
PKR smarting after experience with PSM on their ticket and say they will never allow this to happen again as PSM are critical of them in public. So very upsetting to hear PKR talking like this without looking at themselves in the mirror.
AgreeToDisagree
November 16, 2010
I’m siding with PKR on this one. I have personally tried communicating with PSM before. Very difficult and defensive bunch.
Mad Logic
November 16, 2010
Idealism and perfection seem to be dirty words to the anti-third-force critics. “Oh! there is no such thing”, “Get real man” , “don’t waste time-lah, spend it on supporting pkr” seem to be the common refrain.
But hold it! When did haris or rpk spoke of ideals and perfection ? All these were derogatory characterisation by the critics(aka anwar’s blinded ma-chai) and this is known, at least to those with some intelligence, as a bogeyman argument. You threw in some derogatory terms and associate it with the program and then start attacking from there.
What haris and gang are offering are something real and practical. To close off any effort in opening up the democratic space and to return the power to the people is really anti-rakyat. These critics are trying to choke off such democratic endeavours.
Of course I would now be accused of being a trojan by those suffering from a serious case of trojanitis 😉
Btw. what’s wrong with seeking ideals and perfection ? Aren’t we all trying to create a better malaysia ?
mimosa
November 16, 2010
Spot on, Mad Logic !
These critics do seem to have a high tolerance for shenanigans. According to them then, what is a little cheating and some blatant lying so publicly exposed when compared to the wholesale outrageously cheating and thieving of the Umnonites? The lesser of the 2 evils, half a rotten loaf is better than none, even if it meant eating the bad bread will eventually send us to the ICU with no guarantee of recovery.
I guess RPK must emphasize again and again that the 3rd Force will not result in a 3/4 corner fight to calm down the mad frenzy these critics are now going thru whenever the idea of getting better candidates are mooted.
Greg Lopez
November 16, 2010
This is a good initiative.
Democracy is a competition of ideas. Thus far, citizens have been captured by either PR or BN. Barisan Rakyat will add a third dimension from which people can choose.
Watcher in the Rye
November 17, 2010
Pssst, Haris….I run a risk management agency. Any chance of me getting some business in these hard times of ? Please get me real people to deal with for a change. The last time, some uncivil society cranks send me chasing after ghouls in some forsaken graveyard where snakes hissed, creepy crawlies crept and frogs croaked aplenty. Imagine me sifting through bones and maggots from some decaying casket by some clay mound as the chilly wind blasted through the infernal cemetry with Miss Owl hooting the nightlights outta me as Old Ben chimed twelve in the distance. Blimey, i found all sort of mind boggling gut toggling stuff like ringgit notes signed “An….” stuck in the eye sockets of one cadaver, unmarked ‘PK-’ ballots in the cold skeletal grip of another poor sod and a torn poster with a half torn “Vote Azm… ………….” masthead nailed onto the skull of yet another.
But try as I might, i couldnt find any risk loitering about in search of a manager. Only spook after spook flitting by mumbling about being unceremoniously stuffed into jam packed ballot boxes, about sitting in for the living, about fighting imaginary shadows and other weird stuff that stuffed my imagination. Enuff to send me on some Shakespearean rant like “Oh, verily doeth the dew of the living dribble through thy valley of death, thy derelict temple doeth cloister relics …. (forget it, my shakespeare just ran(t)!!
Apparently, the dumbasses who picked the tab figured that as I run a fly-by -night and sleep- by- day outfit, I was best qualified to sniff out the souls of them ghouls . Only problem was them spirits had long left those desolate temples and flitted elsewhere. You know like flitted into the walking dead you find here, there, everywhere, drifted into the thought zombiefied nattering nabobs of negativity and wafted into the chattering charlatans of cheapskatery…….
Pssst……just tell me where in Batang kali your weekend seance will be and I will send my sidekicks, Warrior and good ol’ Revert with them calling cards. Dont worry, thosai is on me………hahahahaha
Mark @ Israel
November 17, 2010
I agree to this process of selecting candidates. The people should choose the best candidate for every position in the government and the best should be selected from all the candidates. This, I believe will somehow ensure that the voice and choice of the people will be followed and not the politician’s own capricious whims.
Aftermist
November 18, 2010
Harris Bro,
Apology, a late comment.
Fantastic news all around on selecting jewels for next election. I am sure this will bode and equip well for our country`s future.
One element that I hope to be given priority to your selection criteria is to enlist community works and a reputable name in the local circle. Perhaps you can open the naming opportunity for all rakyat to propose these samaritans as candidates. Though candidates themselves may not be keen but who knows may contest in many future elections to come or even support fully the chosen candidates.
Since there isn`t any local election, this is the opportunity gap to identify local talents.
To tell you the truth, I had this thought vaguely when I visited Vatican to acknowledge the catholic way of canonising saints. It seems the requirement for sainthood is to have 6 or 7 miracles. No surprise here when sainthoods were affirmed to relics, after being dead for more than 100 years. But we don`t have to be stringent as such. An honourable human being who lives and breathes in community would be a good start. Also, this resolves the dire need for canvassing electorates in the candidate area.
The rest of the screening process will be on the personal qualities which is definitely prequisite.
Hope lots of hidden talents to unravel.