Last night 2 Indian gentlemen approached me and asked me to lend support for the Hindraf rally on Sunday.
I apologised to them and said I could not lend support to this initiative, not because I do not support the call to alleviate the lot of the Indians in this country, but because the Hindraf call is only to address the economic and social neglect of the Hindu / Indian community, and not the fate of all underprivileged, deprived and marginalised Malaysians, regardless of race.
And make no mistake, there are underprivileged, deprived and marginalised Malaysians of all races, without exception, in the country.
The Hindraf call, to my mind, is as chauvinistic and communal as is the UMNO call to defend ‘ketuanan Melayu’.
Both stand in the way of any earnest effort to forge a nation of a single people.
That is what I stand for and that is what I will walk for.
Justice and equality for all people.
Yes, I walked on 10-Eleven, but that walk and the one planned for this Sunday cannot be equated, other than that both are founded on the constitutionally guaranteed right to peacably assemble.
On 10-Eleven, Gelombang Kuning was made up of every race.
10-Eleven was an event to champion all the people, not a race.
As we were dispersing from the Istana, an elderly Indian gentleman whom I did not know and who was obviously caught up in the euphoria of the moment, came up to me and, without saying a word, hugged me. That silent, momentary embrace between 2 strangers, one an Indian and the other a 1/2 Malay, who had just walked together for the love of their country and its people sums up the difference between 10-Eleven and the intended rally this coming Sunday.
The organisers of the Hindraf rally are expecting Malays to attend their rally, but not in the spirit that held sway on 10-Eleven.
In his letter to the PM dated 20/11/2007, Uthayakumar pointedly states that ‘a malay muslim group and Indian gangsters together with the police Special Branch are trying to disrupt our said peaceful assembly and create chaos and possible violence on 25.11.2007. Please investigate this matter and take the appropriate action accordingly’.
It is becoming increasingly plain to me that the Hindraf rally planned for this Sunday will present to UMNO and BN the perfect stage to resurrect their ‘May 13’ bogeyman, blame the ‘chaos and possible violence’ that Uthayakumar himself anticipates on the recent call by civil society to allow the right to peacably assemble, demonise the struggle for greater democracy as that which is plunging this nation into racial tension, and trumpet again that BN is the only one that can maintain racial stability in this country.
Surely, this has not escaped Uthayakumar and his friends in Hindraf.
The action commenced in UK against the British government, in my view, reflects the wisdom that the Hindraf leadership are clearly possessed with. A stroke of genius.
I pray that wisdom will also prevail in the Hindraf leadership now and that they will make an early decision to call off the rally.
I have attempted to contact Uthayakumar by telephone to implore him to do the right thing. I have not been able to get through. I shall continue to try.
The People's Parliament 
ILoveMyCountry-Malaysia
November 24, 2007
I will not be walking because I think the time has come for us to stop thinking individually as malays, chinese, indians etc but as one bangsa Malaysia.
If we are united as bangsa Malaysia, UMNO led BN can never break us.
kartini7099
July 11, 2011
Very devastated to read your unreasonable reasons….where have you and other NGO’s fought for Indians. The real poor of the poorest in Peninsula Malaysia are Indians not Malays or Chinese. Who are the underprivileged sir? Chinese? Malay? or you are talking for the pendatangs from Indon, Myanmar and Filipines who are now granted PR/citizenship? You know very well, who are poor but you people are stone hearted and all your marginalization and severe discrimination towards the Indians will not be forgotten and forgiven.You people are equal to BN…no difference.
Dan-yel
November 24, 2007
When I met some representatives from Empower during Lee Song Yong’s solidarity, I heard from them that the Hindraf rally, albeit it being promoted as a move to highlight Indians’ marginalisation, were in fact meant to request the Queen to give British citizenship to all Indians in Malaysia, and to sue the government RM several trillion! I’m not sure if that’s true or not, but what kind of wisdom will tell these Hindraf leaders to make such a demand that back-fires?!
pm
November 24, 2007
Haris. A wise Decision taken. Being communal it is unfair to drag you into it.
Mahendran
November 24, 2007
good point indeed sir. Try ur best talking to uthaya. But im afraid all the preparations are already done for last minute cancelation..
but to be frank, yes..postponement wud be safer for all, or simply they can redirect to some other places,away from KL..batu cave maybe/?
nstman
November 24, 2007
Haris, I agree with you. Umno thugs will be using this opportnity to split ranks among the opposition. Hindraf must not play into the hands of Umno. Hindraf must not fall into the chauvinist trap espoused by Umno. Hindraf must not play the BJP game of Hindu nationalism. Malaysians sympathise with Indians over their plight but surely there are other channels to address the grievance. Holding an emotional rally will not help.
bayi
November 24, 2007
I am glad you have taken this clear stand that Malaysia is for all Malaysians and the cause is equality. I am with you here. We should stop being communal in our actions and thinking.
Littlebird
November 24, 2007
Yes, Haris..keep away. This is Indians problem. We should start thinking in terms of all Malaysian.
BRW,Any idea how to highlight the plights of Indians with being labelled being another racist organisation?
Karthi
November 24, 2007
this is not a communal issue. this is not hindu nationalism.This is about equality. The BN Govt has failed in taking care of the rights of Indians in Malaysia. Sympathising for the Indians is great….what are the choices do the Indians have.
so..what are our options?
we are 50 years old…and yet.
maheswaran subramaniam
November 24, 2007
we have come to this stage bcos we have been pushed to the corner and there is no more air for us to breathe.if u look and hear of the recent incidences and speeches made it is so clear that the intention to provoke,incite hatred,to be absolutely insensitive to fellow MALAYSIAN INDIANS IS SO EVIDENT.Demolition of temples,umno general assembly held on DEEPAVALI,INSENSITIVE remarks made by UMNO leaders to name a few.How long can we close our ears ,eyes and minds to the injustices taking place around us.In this matter the govt, handling of the situation is wrong.let HINDRF HAVE THE GATHERING BUT WITH THE POLICE PRESENCE IN HAND.THIS WOULD NOT BCOM A BIG,SENSITIVE ISSUE TODAY.let me ask all of u who is at fault?
P. Nagalingam
November 24, 2007
The point Haris, is that its time to stand in solidarity, against govt and police oppression. Now is not the time for nitpicking details. The Hindraf objectives covers almost all sections of malaysians. The addressing of the economic and social neglect of Hindus/Indians can only be addressed by elevating the economic and social status of all Malaysians.
That should be good enough. Be tall! Oppression of Hindraf and its aims, is oppression of you!
maheswaran subramaniam
November 24, 2007
MIC is the biggest culprit that has led us to this stage.whatever money and land allocated to the indians has been largely been exploited by a few.take MAIKA for instance where has all the money gone.A lot of poor indians have lost substantial sums investing in this politically corrupt holdings and many of these ppl are still in power causing more damage to the community.Do you honestly think they care?any problems in this country,they will be the first to run overseas to their luxurious hideouts.The problem with Indians is many are self serving,selfcentred looking more after their self interest and not their community.This is the sad fact and will have to be addressed or else no point fingerpointig elsewhere bcos the rot is within the indian community itself.cannot really blame the govt if our indian leaders are the ones backstabbing us.This is the bitter truth something hard to swallow but very very true and very sad.
maheswaran,
What you have said here about the Indian leadership and the state of the community is, in my view, equally applicable to the various communities in the country.
Until we stop thinking of ourselves as belonging to different tribes, each needing their own leader to protect tribal interests, we will not be able to take back governance of this country from the racist politicians.
Crankshaft
November 24, 2007
I think this event is a coming of age for Indians in Malaysia. All this while fence-sitters, for once they are recognised by the whole country.
The chaos has started.
All these roadblocks are about intimidation.
Why don’t the police find something useful to do like track down Nurin Jazlin’s killer??
I passed 3 roadblocks on my way to work and the police weren’t even paying attention to the cars – they were bored.
And what were they looking for? Weapons? If you were bringing in weapons to start a riot, would you do it last minute?? Heck, that would have been carried out a month ago!
And as for checking car boots, how stupid can anyone get? If I was carrying a gun, I’d hide it under my car seat or somewhere difficult to access. What are they going to do, strip the entire car?
However, I’m fairly certain this event is going to end up bloody, but the whole world will be watching this time.
apaboleh
November 24, 2007
I am with you, brother. Hindraf is a difficult cause if they insist on the march.
stormcloud
November 24, 2007
A good point and good reasoning.
HINDRAF does not have the moral ground to request/get ALL Malaysians to support their rally if its only aimed myopically towards a single ethnic group.
To be honest, it barely crossed my mind until I read this article. My critical thinking skills needs an upgrade.
Sharing
November 24, 2007
HINDRAF
=======
10,000 can be seen
from the number of meetings
you have conducted ever since.
Don’t risk the 10,000 in the Rally!
Surely you have grievance a lot
like many other Malaysians in all spots.
Get your message through a central blog(s)
like http://raajarox.com/index.php?paged=2
but legal protection no overlook!
Do it more in English
in Hindu message cannot far across.
Spread your Legal knowledge across
so we also share what’s important to note.
All need peace of the mind,
like temple, church, or mosque.
ALL need the peace of life,
to see Human Rights on the road
with Justice can be called!
They were badly disturbed
with the same basic devil
the CORRUPTION overflow!
We need your legal knowledge
but we need a fair system
before any grievance can go.
Guide everyone, including Hindu, the Rightful demands by laws!
Temples should under city councils
Schools under Education
and many many more.
We understand these cannot go
as the system is terribly, horribly rot!
Your Channels never reply!
A remote case to tell the world or Queen
same as to talk to the King
instead of PM.
Wisdoms are on similar wavelength
but one for all
and another for Hindu
then, it cast different looks!
Please concentrate on the Fair EC
to get an accountable GE,
to work out a reasonable Parliament
and constitutions,
to amend a lot of lousy Acts
to give a fair base for everyone to act.
Lay out the steps
so People know where to act
and the Laws to take
so politics is no more a magic
but to work realistic.
Indian, Chinese, Malay
will be talking culture
instead of politics.
Please be a law engineer
a society engineer
a soul engineer
for all kind of plans
for people to share and follow
with transparency, accountability, credibility under the law.
Concentrate the time and efforts of all
to get all to be planned, shared and go!
We need many many more to Share for all!!
Jayanath
November 24, 2007
All i can say is – “Break the Shackles of Tribal-Think”.
Rise above the primordial politics of race and religion and show the politicians that we really want a Bangsa Malaysia.
I will march if the cause is for empowering all disadvantaged, marginalised Malaysians.
shanghaifish
November 24, 2007
bro,
maybe all the Indians of Malaysian birth should march to that Samy Vellu’s house instead !He’s their so-called leader, right ? Where has he gone wrong with the Malaysians of Indian origin, that it has come to this…to take to the streets in frustration ?? Hey, I’m Malaysian first too and proud to be of remote Indian origins BUT I have no allegience to INDIA !!!….AND this is my country and I have a birth right to be Malaysian first as the next person…right, bro ! Cheers to a little clearing-up of “charged-up” emotional sentiments Haris…WON’T give anyone a reason to take that spirit away and I’ll hold my head up !
Long live Bangsa Malaysia !
guabaysong
November 24, 2007
Harris: Your moral objections are merely based on a very selective assessment.
I question your moral construct because you do not see beyond your own racial prejudice – you identify yourself as 1/2 Malay.
Why is supporting the Hindraf rally so different from supporting the Penan’s in Sarawak?
The underlying reason for Hindraf’s rally is to protest demolishment of Hindu temples, oppression of minorities and lack of equal treatment.
I’m surprised that you, with your “high moral fibre”, seem to ignore this.
You are a hypocrite at best Harris and yet you want to contest.
Hindraf’s rally has far reaching implications – It has stirred the imagination of the masses into yearning for change.
GUA BAY SONG
Avtaran
November 24, 2007
People are so frustrated with the government for various reasons. So, anything goes.
There are many ways to do something.
Let’s take the hard way. Let’s work in our respective constituencies and press our respective MPs’. It takes time to get the people, meet and formalise your concerms and finally getting an appointment to present your view. PJ Selatan has done this and it took us a good 3 to 4 months. We will be more than willing to share our experience with any one who wants to get this off the ground.
Why aren’t the rest moving along these lines. It is not illegal to meet your MP has a group of citizens that do not belong to any organisation or party. We are at the core of people power- the voters.
By doing this we the people send a message that we have concerns and we want change. The government will not know how to handle this because it has not been done before. Collectively we has citizens make up this country.
Why are we not doing this?
And Haris is not a hypocrite. Blindly supporting a cause is not the way for some of us. We can be sympathetic but like said earlier, just because we have grouses with the government does not make supporting every movement in that direction a right step.
All I see is this hatred for the government and those who do not want to support any rally. Please be rational.
If we want a true dempcracy we need to know how to handle it. I think we are not ready for it if we are not willing to accept other view points. What is the differance between us and the government?
Avtaran, thank you.
Those who know me, know me. Those who don’t, don’t.
hsudarren
November 24, 2007
I agree with your view.
Any struggle and any demand for change should be along social strata, and not along religious and ethnic lines.
The poor has the right to ask for help from the rich. The rich has the duty to look after the poor. The haves should give more to the haves -not.
This is universal value and this is universal rights.
To demand just for a single group is chauvinistic. Mixing religion and politics is dangerous.
With their UK action is commendable, this rally should not proceed, as this is dangerous and can be easily exploited to create an explosive situation.
Having said all this, I will respect whatever the organisers do, since under the constitution, everyone is entitled to free expression fo opinion and the right to gather should be respected. Only I wish they would call this off on their own initiative.
Dan-yel
November 24, 2007
Hey Haris, after reading what Nat had say, I finally made up my conscience. True, the appeal to British High Commission is pathetic, but that’s not the point. Even if the whole affair is racial, but it’s more imperative that we stand by our Indian brothers (and sisters) when they needed us the most. Not supporting them means more as to abandon than not agreeing with their manner of approach.
True to the Malaysian spirit, I believe that we should show to the UMNO b*****ds, that we, Malays, Chineses, Ibans (hey, don’t forget they’re concerned East Malaysians yo…), Orang Asli, etc who care for the Indians problems, no less than our own “race” problem.
One should remember that the greater enemy is the UMNO, and we would as well surrender to their racist 1969 bogey by effectively abandoning our Indian brothers (and sisters).
More than anything, we need to show the Hindraf that we can rely on other races to fight together as Malaysians, not joining them would only send the message that they could only rely on themselves as Indian race.
More than ever, we need to strengthen this rally, like Nat said, with the presence of other races, preferably substantial presence, so that the UMNO could not label that as racist, and who knows they might even turn the whole UMNO against them, demonizing further the Indians in the memory of the public, especially the Malays.
Therefore, I beg to differ, and I shall go.
Dan-yel,
Courage and wisdom are both blessings from the Almighty. God gives both in abundance. We must also try to apply both with equal abundance.
If the rally goes on, I shall be there as part of the Bar Council observer team.
gua bay song
November 24, 2007
Finally, managed to pressure Harris to go, albeit hiding behind Ambiga’s skirt.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I was already on the Bar Council team from yesterday, even before my post went up.
Don’t take my word. Check with Edmund Bon or Amer Hamzah
apaboleh
November 24, 2007
I am quite disgusted at the personal attack by GBS on Harris regarding this matter. Please don’t impose your moral high grounds on him. Use persuasion and logics to present your views other than bitching about it.
I think Hindraf has rained on their own parade by taking the narrow ethnic religious approach when they could have included their Malaysian brothers/sisters with a Malaysian agenda.
Harry
November 24, 2007
Dear-dear Mr Harris ibrahim,
It is funny you should have Martin Luther King JR pic in your blog !!! yet you are not going to support the rally. You equated Hindraf demand as similar “ketuannan melayu” which is practised and abuse with NO a hint of protest from the MAJORITI BANGSA.
To my fellow marginalised Indians, remember Martin Luther Kind walk on the “”March On Washington for Jobs and Freedom”” , here you must persist cause should you fail the arrogance and the supremacy of this bangsa will be further elevated beyong reasoning !!!
And to Mr Ibrahim, remember this …. just as the march in 1963 was to highlight the plight and the suffering of the black, this rally will serve to remind to the rest of the world, ‘the desperate condition of our fellow Indian (our fellow CITIZENS) in a so called “Islamic virtue country” the suffering & grievances they have to underwent in the last 50 years. Just because they are not Muslim ….???
Harry
November 24, 2007
To apaboleh,
What moral high ground ?? and what do you meant by this :””I think Hindraf has rained on their own parade by taking the narrow ethnic religious approach when they could have included their Malaysian brothers/sisters with a Malaysian agenda.””
If we incl everybody, do you still thk they have a case against the British Government ?? In any case the rally is serve a memorandum to Queen E, I am sure the main thrust of the rally is to bring awareness and highlight the plight of non-malay & non-muslim in this God forsaken country , comprende ??
What we the righteous non-hindus can do is to extend our moral support by attending the rally. At the same time, all Malaysian should joined hand esp the bumiputera to show our support and confined NEP to the dustbin. A new NEP (non-racist & religious) should be introduce to help the poor and the under-privilleage instead …..!!!
R. Magendran
November 24, 2007
Dear Harris Sir:
I have deep respect for you SIR. Seeing the way you presented yourself as a moderate and well-balanced human being all these while. But after reading your justifications on why others(non-Hindus) should not attend the 25/11 walk, I must confess that I see HARRIS as A True Ethnocentric Hypocrite. Of course, not to mention that you consider yourself 1/2 Malay.
The HINDRAF issue is not REALLY about seeking British citizens nor any form pecuniary compensations for the marginalised Indian community. How many of them (HINDUS?) who attend the 25/11 dreams to get such? The Indians (Hindus) or Keling or whatever you may call or BRAND Us (The NON-MIC TRUE MALAYSIAN INDIANS) had enough of 50 years of institutionalized slavery…WE KNOW FOR SURE NOBODY COULD US UNLESS WE HELPED OURSELVES.
Why don’t you see through the racial barriers and just support the people who are marginalised? Never mind if they had Hindu Pseudonyms. The Indians are already way too divided…Poor Thing!
Thank you HARRIS for revealing your True Colours!! PERIOD!
shar101
November 24, 2007
Thank you, Haris, for putting up this posting and making clear your position on Hindraf.
Paul Warren’s comment in the previous posting articulates the predicament to support Hindraf’s cause.
I can emphatise with the core issues which Hindraf’s supporters are trying to highlight but Uthayakumar’s background is tainted, therefore, will be detrimental to Hindraf’s purpose in alleviating the plight of the Hindus. Dan-yel has given us a glimpse on what was Hindraf (or was it Uthayakumar’s) grievances i.e. seeking British citizenship and/or a US$4 trillion reparation from the British government, etc which did not get them anywhere. So now, it’s back to the ‘old’ standard issues of marginalisation, poverty, etc. You don’t have to take my word on this, folks. Just Google ‘Uthayakumar’ and read up his antics stretching back several years.
TPP’s Bangsa Malaysia and to some extent, Bersih, is the way forward for CIVIL SOCIETY in Malaysia. It has an all encompassing representation to seek justice, equality and good governance. The UMNO-led BN government is anathema of what we stand for i.e. race, religious and tribal based governance. Supporting Hindraf, in its present form, will be digressing.
Gua Bay Song, take a closer look at what the Chief Minister have done to Sarawak, riding roughshod over any dissenting voices, not just the Penans, to give unequivocal support to BN and you’ll begin to understand what Bangsa Malaysia/Bersih is all about. Therefore, your inference to Hindraf’s rally having far reaching implications is inherently myopic and does injustice to 10-Eleven. If the Hindraf rally ends up with clashes and bloodshed, is this your definition of ‘acceptable’ progress in seeking change? If so, for whom? Don’t be surprised if it’s BN which ‘benefits’. Haris sees the ‘bigger’ picture and makes a stand while you’re still in the box and not thinking.
Sharing
November 24, 2007
Micro or Macro-analysis?
========================
Similarity & Differentiate can be found many.
Both are to be known
so as to respect and have space apart
among the many.
Focus To work out great
to work for the majority
but to take care also the minority.
So a life of harmony.
People need to be knitted
starting with the basis essential needs.
Trifles should not be a point
if on top of many credit points.
The right heart and soul is the point.
A condo of 200
do not speak, or give sense of Right or Rights
and even abuses when facilities gone
with management fee wrong
with Drs, DRs, Managers, Directors, lawyers in line!
Will they talk for ALL?
The answer is surely NO!
Their hearts for ALL had gone!
10,000, 40,000 or million can easily be worse
if no common point be reached!
They will be dispersed
to wish their own magic.
Even billion could be fantastic
but only to make up magic
for the politics
if they do not have the same logic!
Please take positive points for joining
taking negative points for improving
after ALL have a common ground to speak!
Seeing the selfish 200 in a Condo,
10,000 & 40,000 or 50,000 in the street
should be cherished!
Tell selfishness away
and disagreements by the sides!
SAM
November 24, 2007
A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
Dwight D. Eisenhower
SAM
November 24, 2007
It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.
Mark Twain
Avtaran
November 24, 2007
We are not ready for full democracy.
We are not willing to tolerate and respect other’s views.
We are becoming the problem we want to eradicate.
We are losing rationality of our purpose.
We are becoming self righteous.
Any one wants to see their MP??
God help us.
jayaklang
November 24, 2007
I agree that some of the action of Hindraf yet to make sense. However when the trial goes on, many things can be revealed. Even “classified” documents can be made “declassified”. I will walk this Sunday to show solidarity.
Shadowman
November 24, 2007
My, my…the dust has yet to settle from the 10-eleven march and already chinks in the “unity” armour can already be seen here. With this sort of mentality, do you honestly believe you’ll win your fight? Unity my @$$!
Harris, go suck your thumb somewhere else.
SubanJayan
November 24, 2007
Avtaran,
Thanks for pointing out the existing of PＪSelatan. Via a search, it can be found:
http://www.mcapjs.org.my/organisation_youth.asp
1. Can you list out the problems with PJ?
and the list that PJ Selatan are working and the list that had been achieved?
2. Had any members of PJ Selatan or MCA members discovered, aware and working on the Budget 2008?
http://whatalulu.blogspot.com/2007/11/why-lulus-current-assemblyman-will-not.html
3. or if MPPJ/MPPJ had been sleeping for at least the last 5-years with the following happened!
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/5/15/central/17715952&sec=central
4. If MCA been working in the past 20 years when heading many influencing posts in MPPJ/MBPJ and later on MPSJ, should Subang Jaya be missing a Town Park and the remaining of 28ha of reserved land is no where? Or, some of the reserved land been changed to Condo or Commercial Building without warning public! And, MCA Dato Lee Hwa Beng has to wait for further action from a Developer with a “wrongly” issued title after calling a nonsense 1500 people “Objection” hearing?
This is one of the many!
5. MPSJ & JPK is in a “group” and talking to each others on approval staying away from consulting the residents. Should People expect Democracy when MPs are violating at least TCPA and Penal Codes? How close the MPs in MBPJ related with PK Selatan?
6. You are talking something 3 to 4 months ON WHAT?
7. How big a mess been done by MCA for the last 20 years and you know how long it will take to clear the mess?
e.g The two famous abandon projects in USJ – Rhythm / Newgate. Had they not through the “People” and MP communication? Then what?
8. Rally can talk a lot as they are talking, planning for much much more people to help a better communication between People and the Government. MCA and those MP and the Government have a lot to explain as they had done many many thing wrong and the communication have been ignored!
If PJ Selatan to be promoted, your answer to 1 will surely be much appreciated.
(A former PJ and SJ resident)
KakiAyam
November 24, 2007
will not walk tommorow. the contents of the memorandom are too unrealistic. conpensation and citizenship?
to me, this rally is like one rebellious battalion of army going against the enemy all by themselves…
Ve. Elanjelian
November 24, 2007
Why does not reasoning sound hollow, insipid to me?
The UMNO/BN regime is dead set to stop the rally not because it is some gathering of Indians, about whom the state has little or no concern, except as reliable vote bank. It’s because of the temerity that they had shown challenging Malay Supremacy. Whatever misgivings one may have regarding Hindraf, or their methods, the situation has progressed well beyond one race, religion. It is a national issue.
The question, therefore: are the liberals ready, and brave enough, to stand by the side of the numerically weak and economically poor ethnic minority to challenge Ketuanan Melayu? Or, will they hide behind slogans of equality, justice, and multiculturalism and not be there when the call of duty beckons? Well…
Free Malaysia
November 24, 2007
http://jelas.info/2007/11/24/why-i-will-walk-this-sunday/
Free Malaysia
November 24, 2007
“The question, therefore: are the liberals ready, and brave enough, to stand by the side of the numerically weak and economically poor ethnic minority to challenge Ketuanan Melayu? Or, will they hide behind slogans of equality, justice, and multiculturalism and not be there when the call of duty beckons? Well… ” – Ve. Elanjelian
Folks, I too thought that this Hindraf thing tomorrow is to address the economic neglect of Indians/Hindus only. I must say my first thoughts is to not support this call.
But after marching on Nov 10, and reading some of the postings here and other blogs, I must say I am guilty of being prejudiced. I am ashamed of myself actually.
Whats the use if we thump of chest and call out for reforms, equality and justice for all during the Bersih 10 November march but decide to look the other way when it comes to addressing the plight of the minority in this country????
I am sorry, I cannot live with that. I will march with my hindu brothers and sisters tomorrow because if I dont stand with them, I never will.
stormcloud
November 24, 2007
The former British Empire brought in BOTH Chinese and Indian coolies (indentured labourer) to work in their tin mines and rubber plantations in the what was then British Malaya. Stop reading. Let that factual statement sink in a while.
Today, HINDRAF in essense, is suing the British government for this act and for their exploitations. They are also making pleas to the Malaysian public in order to create greater awareness for the plight of the Malaysian Indians, and also to garner general public support.
I can truly sympathise with their plight, but not for their cause (i.e. the suing). The HINDRAF platform is mono-centric on both race and religion. This does injustice to the rest of the Malaysian people who went through the same pains. This is as simple as saying “I’m Indian and Hindu, I’m standing for my rights, I don’t know anything about your rights, please join me”. Let me ask a rhetoric question, what gives them the right to mock & verbally attack persons who refuses to join the march just because these persons think otherwise? The atmosphere is emotional and many good reasoning are abandoned or blind-sided by some folks, as evident from the comments above.
I’m almost sure the current BN government will try to capitalize on this, one way or the other.
Satya
November 24, 2007
While I cannot entirely agree with Haris on principle here, I’m sad that so many scathing comments have been directed towards him.
I’m sure those who’ve now accused him of being racist/bigoted wouldn’t say so if they knew he was at Kampung Tambak Paya, Melaka earlier this year to show solidarity with the devotees of the Sri Maha Periachiamman temple. He joined them in their calls to the authorities to cancel the planned demolition of the temple.
I also sadly agree with Avtaran. By not tolerating and accepting others’ principles/views, we become the very problem we struggle against now. It looks like that’s what’s happening here.
Paul Warren
November 24, 2007
Haris,
This is a difficult one. To start. I shall not be part of the rally tomorrow. But that has nothing to do with whether I think there is a moral and a legitimate reason that it should or should not proceed.
The issues affecting that group of Malaysian Indians targeted by Hindraf and Uthayakumar is especially unique and peculiar to just this group. Being an Indian myself I recognise many of the issues and the assumptions that have been lumped on them giving rise to prejudicies that have worked against them.
The insensitivities thrust on them on the assumption that they are an irrelevant race and that, therefore, no regard for their thoughts and fears need be factored in dealing with matters that may affect them is not just unique to the way the government deals with them, but also the way the private business sector deals with them.
Yes Hindraf and its objectives may appear to be racist and religious centric to one particular race and religion, but the resolution it seeks is not necesarily universally in tandem with whatever it is that BERSIH seeks.
The sense of despair and the urgency of the relief it seeks, are far more basic in comparison to the luxury that one might seem to be demanding in clean and fair elections.
What HINDRAF seeks is quite unique to itself and I should add that they have been generous in not focusing on blame on anyone or anything. Rather it appears more to be focused on seeking relief. Even then, in the Malaysian context this can be a dangerous pursuit.
By not combining with the Bersih effort of 10/11, that rally remains true to its initiative.
This is an Indian problem that Indians have to address this on their own. I have posted on my blog why I think it is something the Indians need to do and what it is that is the bane of their lot.
But if in the spirit of Bangsa Malaysia we are to walk together, then all that I would like to say to you is that, we the Indians do not want to be carried on your shoulders as true Bangsa Malaysia. We need to catch up so that we can walk with you. You may not see that we may need to be carried at this time. But we don’t want to be carried either.
No, Hindraf are not asking that you walk with them. So they too cannot be disappointed that you do not want to walk with them either. What happens tomorrow is something the Indians have to do for themselves. Of course they shall shed more than a tear of joy seeing you also walk with them.
Lau Weng San
November 25, 2007
(http://wengsan.blogspot.com/2007/11/hindraf-ill-go-when-theres-need-why.html)
I have the chance to read some comments and blog-posts on Hindraf’s rally tomorrow.
While I have a lot of reservations with Uthayakumar’s character and his way of championing his struggle with the opposition, I will participate in the rally this Sunday, not because of Hindraf, not even because of Uthayakumar, but because of equality and Malaysian-ness, that we cannot afford to witness inequality, injustices and discrimination continue to happen in front of our own bare eyes.
Some has disregards on this rally, saying that it is a communal rally for the Indians and the Hindus, especially the under-priviledged.
And because of this, they will not participate in the rally. Some are saying that race-based rally or activity is not what they stand up for.
I am using the same reason to explain why I will be present, that it is the responsibility of all peace-loving Malaysians who uphold justice and democracy to correct whatever wrongs in this country, including inequality in wealth distribution, which has resulted the Indian as an under-class in Malaysia.
The Indians in Malaysia are in despair, anxiousness and desperate.
When there’s a need, why selfish to lend a hand?
I would like to share a youtube with you, “We are the world”.
There comes a time when we heed a certain cal
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
And it’s time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all
We can’t go on pretending day by day
That someone, somewhere will soon make a change
We are all a part of
God’s great big family
And the truth, you know, love is all we need
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day so let’s start giving
roy
November 25, 2007
With all wisdom and just, stop all these craps and utter nonsense. What can you change by walking to British Commission on a fine sunday, a holiday? Perhaps those who came up with the idea are sheer idiots, thinking they can change Malaysian Indians by walking. Indians can be changed by educations, eradicating toddy, eradicating gambling habits and longlist of others.
Your chanting and wailing and yelling are not going to be heard by anyone,you are wasting your time.
Malaysia For ALL
November 25, 2007
excerpt from IPS & why ALL Malaysians should support HINDRAF this Sunday – regardless of race or religion, if my fellow Malaysian is marginalised, the problem will reach my doorstep ….. it has today …. and I will stand up for them even if I have not done so before …. and Harris, since when have you started using the May 13th “caution” like a seasoned politician?? Sure you’re “neutral” enough to be a Bar Council observer??:
from IPS:
“…I don’t want to discuss the merits of the suit but the problems of minority Indians are real and valid and the Malaysian government must attend to it,” Khoo said. “They could have filed the suit in London out of sheer desperation at not getting an airing and discussion here,” Khoo told IPS. “It shows the situation of the Indian poor is desperate and worsening.”
According to government statistics nearly 40 percent of convicted criminals are from the Indian minority. Marginalisation is also reflected in annual university intake which on an average is under 5 percent of the total university intake of over 45,000 annually in 15 public universities.
Nearly half of the 523 Tamil vernacular schools are also not funded by the government and left in a dilapidated condition without basic modern facilities like computers, proper library, sports and recreation facilities and textbooks.
According to Hindraf the percentage of Indians in the civil service fell from 40 percent in 1957 to under 2 percent in 2005.
The suicide rate among Indians is a high 21.1 per thousand in comparison to 8.6 among Chinese and 2.6 for Malays, Hindraf argues.
“Indians predominate as labourers, industrial manual workers, office boys, road sweepers, beggars and squatters,” said lawyer and civil rights campaigner P. Uthayakumar. “We want the world to sit up and see our plight and bring pressure on the Malaysian government,” he said….”
Come on la brother! …. And you expect these marginalised Indians who have not been the subject of anyone’s attention for the last 50 years to fight for the equality of all Malaysians – if not you will not walk with them? You Malaysian ke? I really believe that you mean well – but you’re being too politically correct. And the Indians are not going to get anywhere close to improving their situation by being politically correct. They are MALAYSIANS – and a lot of us have ignored their steadily woresening plight … but now we complain with the way they are fighting for a chance of equal opportunity? Come on la brother! Stand with your MARGINALISED DOWN TRODDEN brother Malaysian !! Dont care that he’s fighting for his race only – nobody fought for his race before this … stand by our fellow Malaysians!!
READ NAT’S BLOG ON JELASINFO!!
Sri
November 25, 2007
What is the difference between hindraf and PAS?
PAS is a religion based party. Hindraf just wants some rights….they want the bread crumbs..thats it.
this country is raping the minorities. Time to rise.
UMno is a racist based party….whats the difference bro? When in rome, do as the romans do.
Birdseye
November 25, 2007
Avtaran,
People of PJ Selatan must salute you for the hard work that you and your fellow concerned residents have put into your much touted “Meet Your MP” campaign.
You have graciously stated that you will be more than willing to share your experience with anyone who wants to get this off the ground. That’s really kind of you. Oh, you can also rest assured that we all appreciate that it is not illegal to meet our MP. He is supposed to serve us, the people, and his constituents, whatever our race or religion. I really do understand that.
I think people should sit up and really listen to what you have to say. Hopefully, we will not have to drag it over 3-4 months (were we to do it), if you will share with us the mistakes or missteps your group made, if any, that made this such an arduous process.
I agree with your statement that people are so frustrated with the government for various reasons. I can think of the culture of corruption, the marginalization of the minorities, court cases that drag on for years on end, the appointment of someone as the Chief Justice when he has written only seven judgments during in his career, etc. Your core group must have been grappling with just what to put on the list. You know, the list can go on and on.
I believe it will help us appreciate just what we’ll be facing if you will address the following matters, using the experience gained in PJ Selatan:
1. You said PJ Selatan had taken a good 3 to 4 months. Why did it take so long to come up with the list of points that your group felt were important for the eventual meeting with the MP concerned? Too many cooks?
2. How long, really, did your group have to wait to see your MP? Did you feel the time taken for the appointment to be fixed was ridiculously long (or surprisingly short)?
3. Help us to appreciate the substance of your effort? If they aren’t state secrets, you can perhaps list the most important matters of national concern that your group felt must be dealt with and the primary issues that are unique to PJS. I’m sure your list is likely to be a long one given the 3-4 months you had to spend on it, but just the major issues will suffice.
4. What did your MP have to say on the important concerns that you list in (3) above? It will be interesting to know what he has to say about what your group feels important.
5. Will there be a follow-up meeting with the MP to review progress? Have you had the review?
6. Has it been a rewarding experience? Can your MP really deliver what your group expects?
Thank you for sharing your experience.
SK
November 25, 2007
After reading the comments here, I think there is a very serious need for us to learn how to “agree to disagree” rationally, not criticizing Haris for declaring his stance of not participating in the Hindraf rally.
It’s also disheartening to see how typical Malaysians react and putting their guns on Haris’s head with all sorts of cheap allegations when he as one of the vivid fighter for a better Malaysia for Bangsa Malaysia decides not to take part in the rally.
We don’t even know how to handle others point of view and yet we’re talking about democracy?
Agree to disagree, remember? Otherwise, go fly kite, this is not the place for you to let go your frustration and behave like a barbarian.
Reniv
November 25, 2007
This is a story of two hungry ghost one named Bersih and the other Hindraf. One day Hindraf asked Bersih where did you get all the food. Bersih says simple I just put my legs out and trip someone. He go back sick, bomoh tell his family the ghost trip him buy incense, chicken and kueh to appease the ghost. Hearing this Hindraf sit under the tree to wait for his victim. Here comes(Government & police) a drunk and lost all his money in gambling walk by. He kick something but didn’t trip, his reaction was he stomp his leg on that something. CRAAACK! Hindraf leg was broken….the moral of the story , ” The most brazen & fierce devil are the poor devil.” Hindraf are you willing to put Malaysian indians in HARMS WAY?
lucia
November 25, 2007
i support hindraf’s march… not because of the petition to the high com but to be in solidarity with them since they are our brothers and sisters too, since they are bangsa malaysia too.
quote–“I apologised to them and said I could not lend support to this initiative, not because I do not support the call to alleviate the lot of the Indians in this country, but because the Hindraf call is only to address the economic and social neglect of the Hindu / Indian community, and not the fate of all underprivileged, deprived and marginalised Malaysians, regardless of race.
And make no mistake, there are underprivileged, deprived and marginalised Malaysians of all races, without exception, in the country.”–unquote
of course. that is for sure. no doubt about it but at this time it is the hindus who stand up for themselves to fight for being marginalised, and shouldn’t we all support them? then when it comes to the malays or chinese turn to stand up and fight, i will support them too. that is also one people, one nation – we, as one people in this nation, help each other in times of need/support.
take an example (not real). we find that the orang asli penans had been exploited and they staged a demo, surely we will support them, won’t we? we will not say, oh made no mistake – the the orang asli temiar and senoi too had been exploited, why should we support penans only. that is because at that time the penans case was highlighted, so we chip in to support them.
btw, beside nat tan’s good take on why he will walk with hindraf, there’s a good take here too by one blogger, ex staff of malaysiakini.
Harrison bin Hansome
November 25, 2007
Dear Harris,
*I have posted my commenteries on Susan Loone’s blog earlier awiting moderation, may I paste anew here?
Original-http://sloone.wordpress.com/2007/11/24/only-hypocrites-will-ask-hindraf-not-to-rally/#more-690
Western societies have long matured enough to take criticisms of political dissents, racial inequilities, and religious freedom within their framework of civilized debate with exculpatory embrace.
The British in this case is a sacrifical lamb for the purpose of the rally. Mahatma Gandhi’s hunger strike did it, ending British colonization when the whole nation rallies behind him but if Gandhi is geographically misplaced in Myanmar presently, I doubt the ruling Junta would have relent and restore to democracy.
I have personally no dispute but in support of any rally. As for the regression of the Indian community, shouldn’t the BN goverment or more accurately the MIC be held liable for the Indian’s economic grievanves?
Should the blacks in American sue those who brought them into slavery and not thank Abraham Lincoln?
Should they be suing God for thier marginalization and misfortune?
I hope that the police will not repeat thier infamous unruliness and allow the peaceful rally.
Against the BN, I am absolutely prided to walk along any Hindraf members, but against the British, I am writing myself out of this.
You did the right thing, absolutely.
goldenscreen
November 25, 2007
First, I do not think there’s anything wrong with people criticizing Haris. What makes him above criticism anyway that many people would jump in, defend him and make insinuations about the people who criticize Haris (eg go fly kite, behave like barbarian, put a gun to his head etc.) This is exactly the moral high horse type of behaviour that you preach down to the people. Perhaps you would be better advised to fly your own kite before telling other people.
And to those who object that Hindraf’s rally is racialist or narrow…let’s not kid ourselves here. The MAJORITY of people who took part in BERSIH walk was PAS supporters. Take a look at some of the videos on Youtube especially those in the Masjid area and what do you hear them shouting? “Allahu Akbar!”. So you have no problem supporting a walk where people are shouting “Allahu Akbar”, a phrase that has become synonymous (rightly or not) with Islamic fundamentalism…but suddenly has reservations at an Indian sponsored walk? That is hypocrisy!
And talking about Uthayakumar. People here make insinuations about his character and state it as a reason why they won’t support Hindraf. Well, I didn’t hear any of you complain when Anwar took part in the Bersih rally…a man with an even more checkered past (money politics, Sabah election corruption etc.) or Nik Aziz with his numerous sexist remarks, gender segregation policies in Kelantan. But anyway, agree to disgaree remember? Otherwise, go fly a kite or act like a barbarian, right?
(Directed to people who take offense at any criticism of Haris).
Andy Tung
November 25, 2007
Dear Haris,
I respect your position and have a hard time wrestling with this issue. The impoverished and disenfranchised amongst us are drawn from all groups with a disproportionately higher percentage from the Indian community. Unfortunately, the Indians do not have much of a voice in our community, the MIC not withstanding, and while I appreciate your concern that we should walk for all Malaysians, I do not see in the near future a rally against poverty and marginalization.
Martin Niemoeller once wrote:
“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”
TT
Dear Andy,
It is a difficult issue, yes.
I will share more of my thoughts and my reasons for my stand after the walk.
Patrick C Netto
November 25, 2007
At the most, this Hindraf march is only a mission statement. The chance of british positive reaction is practically nil. The BN govt is prepared well advanced being experienced with the Bersih experience. For those who are going, best of luck, let’s hope nothing untoward happens. A battle for justice may be lost but the war has only just begins.
stormcloud
November 25, 2007
goldenscreen,
People make their stands clear, and some even include their own personal reasoning. I believe many people (including myself) personally support what the Indians are trying to do, but not this way. Period.
Do not ever mistake, or even assume those defensive comments are made to support Haris against criticisms levelled at at him.
Agree that we disagree. Just leave it at that.
Avtaran
November 25, 2007
Birdseye,
Thank you for your queries on PJ Selatan meet your MP initiative. My responses are as follows:
1. The reason it took 3-4 months is because arranging meetings among our group required juggling all of our respective schedules.
2. Next we discussed what issues we wanted to raise. We came up with a list of 10 possible issues that we would like to raise.
3. A consensus was reached that we should narrow down to three main issues of national importance to facilitate an effective discussion. The issues were Bangsa Malaysia, Secular State and the Independent Police Complaints & Misconduct Commission (IPCMC).
4. A paper was prepared for each of these issues and a final draft was agreed upon.
5. Getting the appointment with the MP did not take too long. We had to coordinate our own schedule with that of the MP. It took less than 2 weeks to meet the MP.
6. The discussion with the MP was rewarding. He listened to us and shared his views which were candid. For me getting to know my MP is a process. It is not a case of ‘here are my issues please solve them’. If only life was that simply.
We have not been able to schedule a follow up meeting due to our own schedules and are planning to do so within the next few weeks.
In these times of great frustration with what is going around us, we need to explore all avenues of getting our voices heard. There is no immediate solution. Cheers.
Hantu Laut
November 25, 2007
You have made the most sensible decision and I hope more bloggers would come out and discourage people to participate.To bring up issue on racial line is dangerous to the nation’s peace and harmony.
I have said the same on my blog.
SubanJayan
November 25, 2007
AVTARAN,
Please list out the MPs you are referring as “their MPs”?
Quoting a Chinese Proverb I was told. Something like “a Snake bite scare victim even when shallow of a String is at sight”!!
http://www.malaysia-today.net/Blog-s/2005/05/media-statement-by-ronnie-liu-tian_26.htm
http://www.aliran.com/oldsite/monthly/2001/2c.html
Had any MP not been appointed to oversee the above area?
MCA headed the Local Government and overseeing those MP or MB.
Shouldn’t MP be consulted for at least the past 40years in that area! What had happened!
MPs should have a much better or even inside information to forsee any problems. They should be the one to warn the problems and not to wait until being contacted or problem being surfaced or even sitting after problems been reported.
MCA headed the Housing, so any reason why there are so many abandon projects when they are the one monitoring and the one amending the ACTS?
Is God & Ghost being in one body?
Pin Pan Dan
November 25, 2007
Haris,
You have hit the nail on the head. Hindraf will just fall into UMNO’s trap to start another May 13. But at the same time, can you blame the Indians for being pushed to a corner? Hindraf is just being their spokesman. Keep on persuading uthayakumar to make Hindraf’s struggle non-communal and broad based just like Bersih on 10 Nov. That is the only way to throw a spanner into UMNO’s evil designs. Good luck
ylchong
November 25, 2007
haris: well articulated.
Nat Tan: salute thee for counterpart, both truly progressive Malaysians in the vein of Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King as proponents of Civil Disobedience when the ruling government turns oppressive.
Both you too are fine examples of what discourse and agents for change should be,in the fine tradition espoused by VOLTAIRE: “I may disagree with what you say but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it.”
And just as the test of the pudding is in the eating, BOTH nat and Haris were there — though in different capacities (I’m commenting at 1.33pm Sunday), Nat as Y&A Malaysian individual full of ideals and gumption, and Haris as responsile Bar Council member observer. Desi was there in spirit with thee, with a prayer too. I was there in Person on Nov 10, and it was a milestone for civil society promoters, above race, creed and colour, also gender and age.
p
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A
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amir
November 25, 2007
second u Mr Haris,
i also will not walk with them, but i do respect their rights for peaceful assembly and voice out their opinion
Da Boss
November 25, 2007
Everyone.Let’s be honest and call a spade a spade. This Hindraf thing is a Tamil Tiger type of radicalism.These movie-goers have the nerve to thumb their nose at the majority (see the resolution blaming malays rights as the cause), they seek and love fights.These are boot-licking victorian patriots (long live the queen:).
In Uganda,Sri Lanka,Fiji and now Malaysia, you will begin to see the common viral pattern.
Many modern-thinking Tamil have escaped that victorian scam called INDIA and are progressing well.
Finally, “Dey!!It’s BN and MIC, that’s your enemy da!!
The Malay Male
November 25, 2007
Let Hindraf sue the Brits. If they succeed in getting the US$4 trillion, I will lead a class action suit against the Brits for being in MY country, on MY land and enslaving MY people since 1786.
For US$40 trillion.
Then we’ll sue the Japanese, Portuguese and the Dutch for a billion-kajillion dollars.
Nak saman pun man-man la wei!
Harrison bin Hansome
November 25, 2007
(Intended for Goldscreen)
Your post at November 25, 2007 at 3:12 am, is a parody of your true self. No doubt the majarity marchers of the BERSIH rally are PAS/malays but the diversity of other races filled in the numbers.
My post above yours denotes the diversion of the rally, notwithstanding the lawsuits against the British government and I have enunciated my cause for my contention.
And your mention of Anwar Ibrahim, taking part among other PAS extremist at the BERSIH rally to negate the negativisms of the true intentions of the Hindraf rally, I suggest that you better go check on the tadpoles you trapped in the drains.
The BERSIH rally was correlated by all races for electroral reform, judicial reform, the urgent settings of the IPCMC and the widespread corruption in this country while the HINDRAF rally, for every Indian
who took to the streets and at home, an imaginery US$2
million (sorry for the poor beleivers) will fill their pockets. For even mentioniong Anwar’s name, bless you.
Some even compared this walk with the ‘Million Man March’ propagated by Martin King Jr, in reality such misnomer can best be regarded as “US$2 Million Walk Per Head” (for the Indians only, mind you, but mind if I do).
Latha Segaran
November 25, 2007
I think the move by HINDRAF is timely! After all, the Indians in this county have been long marginalised, supressed and oppressed. Many have said that it is communal, hey one got to face the facts, be it BERSIH , BN or whoever, the views of the minority ethnic Indians especially Hindus will not be made heard to anyone.
Especially , when it concerns issues of temple demolitions and stuff like that, I think many choose to ignore the issues! Therefore, it takes something of this big an event to create an awareness that hey, Indians in this country are not stupid or foolish and no longer will just shut their mouth to whatever that has been said or shoved to them! These are the unsung heroes of today’s Hindu Malaysian, and I am with them 100%!
Besides, one also wonder why the government till today have not issued an apology statement for the horrible way they handled the temple demolition at Padang Jawa??!
jojos
November 25, 2007
no malays has ever stepped up for the indians, it shows from this post and some comments here.what choice to indians and hindus have?
and how stupid is it to liken the UMNO chauvinism to hindrafs chauvinism. one gains and another are the losers. how is it similar?
The Orang Asli Male
November 25, 2007
Then We will start suing your ass, for occupying our land For $400 zillion.
🙂
JAIHIND
November 25, 2007
NO WALK FOR HINDRAF RALLY since it is not a Bangsa Malaysia cause?
Think again: BN uses Bangsa Malaysia concept and impose Ketuanan (we non malays as permanent hamba) and later introduce Islamic Syariah law to devalue common law and demolish temples.
Where we go from here, Haris? Go back to Bangsa Malaysia concept and go thru the same things all over again. For this reason Hindu Rights Action Force has solidarity appeal that a broader Bangsa Malaysia concept lack.This a concept which Indians have learn to suspect. Rightly or wrongly Bangsa Malaysia equals to BN, equals to ketuanan and kehambaan. We had been economically, psychologically marginalised and need to awaken in unity to reaffirm faith in ourselves as a community.
We are proud of the ‘the stroke of genius’ of HINDRAF leaders – we are confident UMNO knows that another May 13 will backfire this time given the global senario.If we don’t stand up and be counted now, there is no future for our generation anyway. We have come to point we have got little to lose.
Noblepath
November 25, 2007
Look at all our ‘diversity’ of our opinions. One saying it is the fight for a monoethnic benefit another saying that all this too radical.
In the name of human rights and freedom of speech – any of you can be selfish for just labelling this rally as a monoethnic cause. An oppresive element is present in our goverment – wheter it is directed to a particular ethnic or not; if this element has to be fought off, why is it so wrong for other races to support this cause?
‘People Should Not Be Afraid Of Their Governments. Governments Should Be Afraid Of Their People.’
stormcloud
November 26, 2007
Let me explain my own _personal_ perspective so that some folks might understand some of these disagreements. To those folks that prefer to criticize just for the sake of throwing negative labels, please restrain yourself.
Firstly, I do not believe HINDRAF is entirely sincere towards their efforts in highlighting the marginalisation on Malaysian Indians. The dramatics of suing Britain towards this end strikes me as dishonest and could even lead to false believes amongst the lesser educated Indians who support HINDRAF. If they had been sincere and instead petitioned to the BN government, MIC or even the Agong himself, things might have been a little different. Overlooking this important aspect, closing one-eye in favour of solidarity is short-sighted in my opinion. Some might accuse it as nit-picking, but I believe in principle, there is a core need for integrity when doing something. Without it, they are no different from our BN government.
Secondly, in stark contrast to the Bersih march, HINDRAF’s objectives are played along the lines of the minority ethic Indians. There is nothing wrong with this and it’s been a long time coming, they are entitled to it. The issue here is that it does not align with my wish of seeing a more transparent, accountable and well-run government. Make no mistake about this, in the hypothetical sense that they succeed and the Indians are given a larger piece of the pie, it only benefits that single ethic group. The government machinery would likely remain unchanged. Are we back to square one? I am candid enough to admit, while I do support the effort to highlight the plight of the Indians (in my own capacity), I will not become a simple tool to prove a point that is lacking in integrity as per above paragraph.
Lastly, I don’t subscribe to terms like Bangsa Malaysia or other gimmicky labels, whether it comes from the opposition or from the government. What really matters to me as a core in life are integrity, fairness and respect.
Samy Vello
November 26, 2007
Don’t know what the fuss about HINDRAF being a body or division which fights for the large Hindu minority here in Malaysia. First of all, if one have read the memorandum of HINDRAF, one will realise that the causes it is fighting for are very much for the rights of Hindus in this country. By doing so, also HINDRAF have realised that it shall not get any support or little support from other races in Malaysia, but never did once I heard that HINDRAF was rallying for the support of other races here in Malaysia.
A lot of comments in this blog are somewhat very racist and it shows that Malaysian have long way to go in learing to respect other’s religious, sectarian beliefs and practices. On this topic, if you watched the TV3 prime news last night, you will know the meaning of “racially inciting hatred”! Now, this is what I call being so insensitive!
By suing Britain , in no way it shows that HINDRAF is lacking in its sincerety. 50 years after independence, with the presence of the BN, MIC or even the respectful honourable King himself, nothing has been changed for the Indians in this country.
Most (this could be an understatement) Indians have to struggle to get good education, there are many incidences where parents have sold their houses, property to educate their children. You will not come by many Indians who will be able to say that MIC helped to fund their education , like how you would come across so many Bumiputeras who are funded by the Govt to study overseas!
Keeping this in mind, can you blame HINDRAF for organising the march or rally? Besides, I don’t think the organisers of HINDRAF are concerned with the outcome of the petition or the case per se.. but an awareness has been created to the world- the WORLD is watching and now it knows the plight of the marginalised Indians here in Malaysia! This is all that is needed, and I think the organisers have achieved it! All Glories to the Indians in this country!
boy ipoh
November 26, 2007
No matter what happens. Pls remind and remember that we are against the system, the authority, the government not Malays even tough most / majority of the government people were malays.
Say No to anoher 13 May. IF you think of the future of your race. 13th May should not happend. That’s a war between race. Please think that not all malays are the same and not all chinesse are the same and so was the hindus. It’s the government that threated ur race this way not us (malay hamba juga). Taling bout gtten beat up. The BERSIH demonstrator also melayu kena hentam with Polis melayu..so now we are at war with the government not RACE. Pls remind that ok? coz race war it’s totlly a different thing already. Think of those innocent people, those kids at schools, etc. We don’t need the 13th May incident. To me HINDRAF has the right to stand for their own race just like any other race party. It’s positive thing but 13th May is not positive thing to think about next.
I’m a malay and stand equality for all. I don’t need this race war coz i love eat mamak, eat vege at chinesse restaurant and also at indian restaurants. Don’t start something where i can’t go to those place anymore. I have many friends of many races. If there’s war coming between race. I’ll not stand on my side or yours. I’ll be in the middle to stop it from happening. Coz if we fight the one who laugh at us was our government and those rich politics people. They got money and they can just leave the country with a speacial A class passes with thier family and we all at the end shread blood here and there for nothing.
Boy
boy ipoh
November 26, 2007
senang cerita..just compare it with USA government and see how many negro works as their police force or the government? It’s the same thing when the mat saleh is ruling the country and it’s the same here in Malaysia. It’s same everywhere actually.
Take example of Singapore and see how the government there thread the Muslims malays and javanesse there. To me Malaysia still consider ok la were u can still having Thaipusam, Buddhist temple, church (chritian / catholics), Sikh Temple, etc. In Singapore, the “azan” also their don’t allow u know. Thta’s for Muslim peopel but i didn’t know how they thread the hindus and indian there then…
about Bumiputra issue. well yes it’s a problem and unfair for all of us. Even tough i’m malay but my ic stated as hokkien coz my dad is a chinnese hokkien. My wife is malay but i hardly also get the bumiputra thing. They should demolished all these bumiputra thing coz it’s unfair to all of us. Want to buy a same sq feet house or condo also have different price for non bumis and bumis. WTF?
Let us all unite man! Racism is not a thing now unless u live in the 60’s era. This is millenium already and everyone should be open minded and think positive. I think the citizen already opened their mind but i think the government have NOT…Governemnt / teh system so LEMBAM…
hoping to be a lawyer
November 26, 2007
Funny how, a person, a lawyer, a human rights lawyer, like yourself rejected the march. You have to experience and understand the natures, the ideas, and the ways protesting done by all sectors in our society, you certainly need more than a CLP and a name card to prove that you righteous, uncorrupted, and upholding law of the land without bias. There is certainly no good way of learning what causing the divides then experiencing it first hand on the “ground”.
There is nothing wrong with them marching by racial or religious line, as our country is clearly divided according to race and religion. IC, employment, credit cards, bank accounts, business registration, inquires, college registration etc need to fill up with your race and religion. You cannot put Malaysian as a race, can you? When i was in Australia, i certainly do not have this race issues. Australian embraces diversities and cultures, and being in the biggest city in Australia, i truly experience a multi-cultural society. In Malaysia, seldom we mingles together, but in Australia, i am lucky to have friends from different backgrounds, races and even homosexuals.
We are brought up by the divided community, prejudice and racism flowing strongly in our vain and I do not have this issue when living in Australia. You can blame the government for all the shits in your life. But really, our society is the one causing the mistrust. And we, are voting BN back to back to office, and they are just happily playing the racial politics.
You might think that i am going round and round. Yes, i am, but to a point. The perception of races by races in Malaysia is the overall issue. “Parents” are to be blamed for not educating their children the right way. But since “Parents” failed to judge rights against wrongs, and wrongs being the dominant norm in our society, there will never be improvement, and the political parties will still play racial politics. Its not rocket science, but just a small bit of sociology. Australia, although having the best decade (in terms of economy etc) under John Howard (Coalitions) had just switched to Kevin Rudd (Labor). Thats the maturity of society we are talking about. And Malaysia, with first class infrastructure (if you never been overseas, then they are first class) but with third world mentality. And this third world mentality is holding us back.
My English is broken, yet i am inspire to be a lawyer like yourself as am currently registering for LLB UOL external. But one thing i will do that you will never get your hand into, is to understand our society and fix our moronic perception regarding the person sit next to us. You are not trying to understand the real issue. But merely taking your time in choosing causes to support and ignoring the others, no offense, as thats my perception of you, and you seriously have to think why you wanted to be a lawyer in the first place. And i hope it is not monetary gains that you are thinking of.
The mentality of our society is still in its infancy and it will never improve unless we address the issue. And none of us are doing it. The oppositions are not doing it either. And lastly, another generation wasted.
BobSam
November 26, 2007
Boy Ipoh, there is no overt discrimination in the US that prevents an African-American from joining the police force. Likewise in the UK, when you arrive that Heathrow, the Security consists mainly of Indian/Asian nationals. But they behave as though they are Brits. U have freedom in the States & in other (as u call it) white man’s lands. Even the country, which was a penal colony treats you equitably, with a Malaysian Chinese lady being a top honcho in the new government.
I know of a Chinese chap who graduated from UKM, was not allowed to become a Police officer. He had to join the rank & file (constable) and work his way up. (AND I m certain he will succeed). Likewise earlier this year there was a UTAR grad who found that his qualifications did not enable him to join the force as an office but rather he had to start as a Constable, a position where SPM certification qualifies.
When discrimination is institutionalized, then eventually problems will start getting bad. If you are a student of history, you can use Sri Lanka as a good case-study. The excesses that we are seeing, happened in Sri Lanka in the 60’s. Look where that beautiful country is today. The irony is that both the major people groups are from Mainland India. The Sinhalese majority are from West Bengal, whilst the Tamils are of 2 major migrations from Tamil Nadu, one during the Chola period, and the other much later, during the British period.
Ask u a question, if the Deputy Unit Head of a government organization is a Non-Malay, do you think that if the unit head goes on his Umrah, will the Deputy Head become Acting Head. I can wager (a cup of Teh Tarik) that someone will be parachuted into that unit to become the Acting Head.
Another question, do you think it will be possible to hold an examination on Hari Raya eve or the day after Hari Raya? Or can there be an “Invigilators” or “marking Examination papers” meeting on Hari Raya day. This has happened in the enlightened Industrialized state of Selangor for the past 3 Deepavali’s. A major public university has had its examination on 2 Deepavali days. The Invigilators meeting was held on Deepavali last year. If u complain, u r told that u dont have to attend. Of course attendance is compulsory for doing the job, so non attendance means you are not interested. U dont have ur priorities right.
So u tell me, what is the poor marginalized Indian to do. During elections he is warned. Vote the party line, else some people will encourage private developers to take over the rubber/oil palm estate and make a new housing development. You will loose ur job & ur house. (Of course ur temple will go too). So how do these people vote their conscience.
To all the learned commenters & readers, can I suggest that you volunteer ur time and help teach or support someone to teach the kids in the Estates to read & write. Some Tamil schools are not equiped with computers. Look at the Chinese, they know that education is paramount. The Tamils know that but the rumbling stomach & the BLOODY alcohol which opiates ones problems away is calling them. SO IS CRIME. Solve today’s & tomorrow’s social problems NOW by breaking the poverty cycle. Educate the kids from poor families. I wish I can organize a philantrophist(s) to give RM100 a month to every kid who attends school. Another RM100 for ever “A” in the final exam. Bribe these kids to come to school. Do whatever that is necessary to educate these kids. And we will have a better Malaysia 2moro.
At times in my low moments, I can see the wisdom of Sanjeev Gandhi’s solution, of forced family planning of the rural males. But that caused the Congress party their rule in India.
Mindon
November 26, 2007
Ever thought of presenting such an argument to the Blacks in America during the racial discrimination of Martin Luther King’s time or how about using it on the Christian Indonesians in Muluku, Indonesia who were slaughtered because of their religous beleifs by militants aided by the Indonesian government. It is a convenient and lofty sounding argument, but lacks credibility, courage or a sense of awarenes towards taking a stand for justice when the marginalised are crushed by tyrants.
It rings of a hollow sanctimous chours and platitude one hears from individuals and organisations that willspeak about the need for human rights and self-determination for all races, but they would not lift a a toe or finger towards these lofty platitudes in the streets of Pakistan or Mymanar. The Indians or the Orang Asli or the Kadazans are Malaysians who have been long marginalised. And as such it takes a vision bigger than seeing them as Indian, Kadazans or Orang Asli but as Malasians who are being marginalised because of their ethnic identity.
Indians in Malaysia have long stood with the Malays, Chinese, and other marginalised race in fighting for their cause, some even to the extent of being physically attacked, being sued and even to death. However, the same cannot be said about the reverse. Unfortunately, the history of this nation has revealed that they walk alone when the plight of their state is being highlighted. it is my hope and prayer that the so-called champions of “Bangsa Malaysia” will someday read the witing on the wall and see that the marginalised and oppressed and those being led to the Gas chambers of death have only song on their lips: Free at last, free at last, Thank God almighty that we are free at last.
stormcloud
November 26, 2007
(intended for Samy Vello)
3rd paragraph : What are you basing your reasoning on for saying “no way it shows that HINDRAF is lacking in its sincerety”? Both avenues, the British government and the collective BN, MIC or Agong will get you the same result. A stonewall. Therefore, the rest of the statement in that same paragraph becomes irrelevant.
Why is HINDRAF choosing the former as an avenue instead of directly confronting the powers that be? I’d read in another someone’s blog applauding this strategy as sneaky and brilliant. Well in all truth it is. Make a greater global impact (especially during the CHOGM meetings) at these ridiculous claims and perhaps sway the greater Indian diaspora towards focusing their sympathies to them. Whats wrong this?
Simple. Let me start with the easy one.
– The objectives for their claim to the British government is made under a false pretense. Their real objective was publicity.
– It’s a backhanded tactic that serves as good propaganda fuel to exhort the average uninformed Malaysian Indian folks to join the cause for the fool’s errand of a few millions in compensation.
– It clouds the real issue that the MIC has been ineffective their role as guardian for the Malaysian Indians’ interests and to some extent, the irresponsible BN government.
These are the (elaborated) reasons why I do not believe that HINDRAF is entirely sincere in their effort … and don’t quote me that tired statement that mentions how the situation is desperate and they don’t have any other way. These Machiavellian maneuvers by HINDRAF demonstrates a clear disregard towards integrity in their purpose. In metaphor, just look up the story between the tortoise and the scorpion.
Sad depressed
November 26, 2007
hey come on its just bout the human rights…..not even the politics….. wat the hell the Prime Minister(Badawi),Deputy Prime Minister(Najib),n other political leader are talking bout…telling their media propaganda that tis is politics…..its full of crap that they are scared coz they pushed indians…untill we have no rights to fight our own rights…MIC leader(Samy Velu) n MIC member are benefit from the money that malaysia government giving them so that they will keep quiet…thinking ppl are 50 years back that are not educated….
hahahah how dumb they are….
Noblepath
November 26, 2007
So alright, all parties and NGO should be truthful and sincere to it’s supporters and the public? I guess, this isn’t happening at all to any parties / NGOs around the world. Every organization has its own ‘ulterior’ motives. Be it World Wife Fund (WWF), the Greenpeace and other ‘green’ parties and even Dalai Lama (which is on ‘tour’ right now). In order for organizations to achieve their goal(s), that is why they have OBJECTIVE(s), and they/it should be carried out in any means possible depending on their cause – some antagonizing the public / government and some do not.
And my point of view to ‘stormcloud’ ‘s post:
– The objectives for their claim to the British government is made under a false pretense. Their real objective was publicity.
>> I definitely understood what you meant. I agree, part of it’s the publicity. BUT this isn’t the main objective. We are no one to say that was their ‘real objective’. We can’t verify that can we?
– It’s a backhanded tactic that serves as good propaganda fuel to exhort the average uninformed Malaysian Indian folks to join the cause for the fool’s errand of a few millions in compensation.
>> exhort the average… that is probably true, like I said above – no body in sincere. But about this ‘propaganda’, I’m not sure what ‘stormcloud’ meant. But if it’s regarding the rally, I don’t see anything wrong with it. And there is definitely nothing primitive with what that’s aligned with human rights and freedom of speech. POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
– It clouds the real issue that the MIC has been ineffective their role as guardian for the Malaysian Indians’ interests and to some extent, the irresponsible BN government.
>> MIC, haha… BN? Get me a beer… anyone?
legallybotak
November 26, 2007
Three big demonstrations: Bar Council, BERSIH, HINDRAF in recent weeks. Will there be another? The Hindu Indians have shown us who they are. I may not agree with your approach but I will support your right to peaceful demonstration and your expression of dissatisfaction with your stake in our country. Your problems are our problems and in many ways I can understand your frustrations. However sometime, we must search ourselves before finger pointing.
Maheswaran Subramaniam in Haris Ibrahim’s blog wrote:
“MIC is the biggest culprit that has led us to this stage.whatever money and land allocated to the indians has been largely been exploited by a few.take MAIKA for instance where has all the money gone.A lot of poor indians have lost substantial sums investing in this politically corrupt holdings and many of these ppl are still in power causing more damage to the community.Do you honestly think they care?any problems in this country,they will be the first to run overseas to their luxurious hideouts.The problem with Indians is many are self serving,selfcentred looking more after their self interest and not their community.This is the sad fact and will have to be addressed or else no point fingerpointig elsewhere bcos the rot is within the indian community itself.cannot really blame the govt if our indian leaders are the ones backstabbing us.This is the bitter truth something hard to swallow but very very true and very sad”
I can see that there may be some grain of truth in Maheswaran’s observation. If we substitute MIC in the above comment with UMNO or MCA, will it be any different?.
As far as the Chinese are concerned, I can only guess that there must be quite a few of us who are as dissatisfied but will we choose to speak up or just continue our kopitiam bitching. If we do, I certainly hope that it is not because we were goaded or instigated by some chauvinistic politicians.
However if we choose to exercise our right to peaceful demonstration and expression, I pray that we have the sense not to play the race / religion card as a means to our ends or we are no different from UMNO, MCA and MIC. We (Malaysian) should not continue living with the sins of our fathers and continue the archaic legacy of sectarian politics ideology. We need to work together to resolve the underlying issues: abuses of power and which will marginalize all of us in the long run, irrespective of race, color or religion.
Last but not least I would like to share with you a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.
“When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.”
God be with you
Noblepath
November 26, 2007
Look at all the posts above. Almost everyone isn’t recognizing the principles of Human Rights (HR) and Freedom of Speech (FoS). These elements are not even present at any of the posts above.
If one recognizes HR and FoS, I believe one will support for any groups that are fighting for their rights and cause !AGAINST! a tyrannical and oppressive ruling government. By labeling or recognizing HINDRAF’s cause as a racial one, it doesn’t make you any different from a racist of fascist because you do not recognize the elements of HR and FoS. Period!
bolehbug
November 27, 2007
I read dispassionately the comments and replies, the accusations and the counter.
I was in KL that weekend, I saw the police road blocks in the heart of KL city, I realised that it was all for show when dark tinted vehicles just slowed down but were not stopped, I noticed MAT CEMERLANG gathering and racing all around and the police not bothered about it under their very noses
I noted the shock and awe tactics with low-flying helicopters, the stormtroopers in black body armour, I smelt the acrid gas and the tainted water
I say this I saw = Never have I seen so many young Indians in unity, never have I seen a group so disadvantaged so up in such great numbers
I say this = The Police should be ashamed of themselves, who broke the law = those who tried to gather for the first time in their history and peacefully at that, who broke the law = those who instigated, fired teargas etc, chased and beat unarmed bonafide citizens, who broke the law = those who attacked a place of worship, who broke the law = those who created an antagonistic atmosphere, HARAPKAN PAGAR, PAGAR MAKAN PADI
But I do see this, the seedlings of civil disobedience, I see the beginnings of civil movement
I will not spout platitudes or allude to Gandhi or King, but I say this – I am beginning to be proud to be Malaysian, I say this – May 13th??? who’s afraid of the bogeyman, I say this – as society must mature, so must society, I say this – the true measure of civilisation is its treatment of its minorities
Walk if you want to walk, hide if you want to hide, be an ostrich for the world to bother about – in clear plain sight no one else was asked to walk/no compulsion/noforce – walk for solidarity for understanding for a better society for a better tomorrow – no need for reasons to or not to when no one asked you to.
This is not about money or compensation, this is about recognition, this is about pride and dignity, who or what have this Hindraf offended or appealed to – so much energy expended in this new-age warong, still the same thing, yak yak yak over tea/coffee/internet
Me, I pity the police for they are the acursed of the lot, perhaps one day, they will be able to see beyond the corruption of their souls and cleanse it with dignity by saying no to manipulated law and order, what if a FRU chap comes under my scapel, do I save a life or look the other way, or maybe poetic justice – I am trapped in a traffic jam due police pre-emptive anti-terrorist road blocks – the lord works in strange ways
alan
November 27, 2007
En.Harris (and the likes of Anwar Ibrahim)
If you honestly believed in Bangsa Malaysia, you would have walked with us, nevertheless. By leaders such as you and AI pontificating the thought behind the action, credance is given to the rest to stay away as well.
I am sorry HINDRAFF leaders got slightly off tangent, but i am distressed when leaders has a super-market mentality over these actions. Pick and choose your fights, and you will end up fighting yourself.
God Bless
Noblepath
November 27, 2007
bolehbug said: “…I say this – the true measure of civilisation is its treatment of its minorities”
>> Malaysia is probably the only country where minorities are discriminated. Elsewhere, minorities are protected. I am studying in an Eastern European country (supposedly to be underdeveloped then most Asian countries) – over here, they protect minorities and the best part, in their forms or any official documents, they don’t have to state their race or religion. 🙂
goldenscreen
November 27, 2007
“If they had been sincere and instead petitioned to the BN government, MIC or even the Agong himself”
If they pettioned BN or MIC, what is the use? It will be swept under the carpet wouldn’t it? In case you didn’t know, HINDRAF has already pettioned BN, MIC, even the PM himself but received no response. As for petitioning the Agong, I don’t think anyone should put too much hope on that. Anybody who saw the Agong’s speech during the Angkasawan blastoff live on tv will know what I mean.
To Harrison, you must be dreaming in virtual reality if you think the non-Malays will support PAS. PAS is after all a political party and also has their own agenda in participating in the Bersih rally. Nobody wants to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire. And I believe BERSIH rally was only calling for electoral reforms right (correct me if I’m wrong). Mana ada judicial reform, IPCMC etc?
Don’t you see the difference between a rally organized by the most famous NGOs and opposition political parties with their supporters as opposed to a grassroots movement with virtually no support and implicit hostileness exhibited by certain opposition people? And what is the negativism of HINDRAF that you object to? That it has finally given voice to the voiceless, empowered the marginalized Indians in a way that none of the opposition parties or NGOs managed to do?
With all due respect, I support the efforts of BERSIH but it only highlighted the symptoms of a deep malaise in this country, something everyone knows about. HINDRAF’s success is in exposing the root cause of the symptoms – the racial superiority ideology espoused by UMNO.
stormcloud
November 27, 2007
What I was trying to highlight was, as person, one needs to apply a certain amount of impartial thinking before acting. If there are reservations towards the methods being used, then it falls to what principles each person holds dear to.
However, this in now way lessens the magnitude of the cause when it is just. What is in dispute are the methods, not the cause. Please do not misunderstand.
Last post in this section, I’m respecting Haris’s wish for comments to be addressed per his original article.
thinkingaloud
November 27, 2007
First They Came for the Jews
(by Pastor Martin Niemöller)
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
—–
Just some minor modifications
First They Came for the ….
First they shot the folks in Terengganu
and I did not speak out
because I was not in Terengganu.
Then they spray chemicals on BERSIH-ers
and I did not speak out
because I was not a BERSIH-er.
Then they teargas-ed HINDRAF
and I did not speak out
because I was not a ******.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Noblepath
November 27, 2007
If HINDRAF opts for the so called ‘correct’ or ‘within the system’ approach, nothing will happen. Come on, this is Malaysia, you guys should be well aware of this. Hence, I agree with what ‘goldenscreen’ said.
And look at the inconsistency of the news given by The Star (scroll below at http://www.jeffooi.com/), Also, the given image for the rally that it was violent and out of control. Well, the police or FRU started to antagonize the protestors (if you see the some of the videos, it was the police that started shooting in the air – and what was that for? Watch your butts?). Well, screw The Star anyway, it’s under MCA, another component of BN!
I happened to came across the website of PSM (Socialist Part of Malaysia – http://www.parti-sosialis.org), a left wing ‘party’ in Malaysia that is not able to get itself registered. Why? According to their website: “The Malaysian State has refused to recognize PSM. The ruling party has rejected the party’s application to register as a political party citing that PSM is a threat to national Security.”. This is totally outraging the ‘modesty’ of Human Rights and Freedom of Speech. I guess it’s high time that a left wing party should emerge from the chaotic Malaysian political arena, to even out the tyrannical rule of UMNO ultra nationalist / BN.
And to MP K. Devamany, are you an Indian in the first place?
Young Indian
November 28, 2007
I think the issue over (or lack of) Freedom of Speech and Human Rights is being overly exaggerated. One must understand well enough that this a country of not only diverse race, but that of significantly differing religious beliefs.Empowering anyone with the freedom of speech, whilst a basic human right, has detrimental effects of the unity of this country. Lets stop bickering about how Indians are being marginalised. Lets just work harder and give our younger ones a better life. Creating racial tensions with demonstrations such as this, does nothing more than risk a reasonably good life that Indians have in this country. Let us not forget what God has bestowed upon us. Let us not forget what we risk to lose.
bolehbug
November 28, 2007
Maybe Hindraf will eventually progress into social realisation and activism and ultimately realism.
The simplest act now in a legitimate govt approved sense is to vote out MIC candidates in the next GE. Without the votes, MIC cannot claim credibility neither can the BN continue to bluster its representation of all Malaysians.
In the Malaysian context, unfortunately, the govt has become the civil service and vice versa.
Indians are targetted for discrimination and marginalisation purely on racial and numerical context.
The number of Indians have been superceded by the number of legalised illegal muslim pendatangs in the form of Indonesians, Myanmarese, Kampucheans, Bangladeshis etc. These have been absorbed into the political frame as they represent votes, grateful votes for the BLUE IC / MYkad. Thus, the indian community, diverse as it may be, is uniformly and systematically discriminated and marginalised as inconsequential by the govt and thus the civil service.
What do the indians have? Samy Vello?? Beef rendang being served during civil service functions??? No other civil society discriminates so openly against a minority group as the govt of malaysia.
It is painfully obvious that the pathetic concept of Ketuanan Melayu whether manifest as special rights etc will condemn the Melayu to meLAYU. Its just a matter of time, however, it is not in anybody’s interest to see this inevitability.
It may be a very short step from the awakening and rediscovery of self-pride to the positive affirmation of such status.
It is this which inevitably will come up to the siege mentality of the Ketuanan, keris or otherwise
We live in interesting times
Orang Baik
November 29, 2007
Wherever Tamils go, they create problems. Look at Sri Lanka. Under the British the Tamils, despite being a minority, controlled all the important positions in the country. They didn’t give two hoots about the discriminated majority. When independence came and the majority Sinhalese were given their due rights the Tamils started a campaign of separatism and terror. They will do this in Malaysia as well. In time they will claim the whole of Malaysia as a “Tamil homeland” supposedly inhabited by Tamils from time immemorial.
fidel castro
November 30, 2007
JUST CHANGE TO NEW GOVERMENT IN NEXT ELECTION..DID U SEE WHAT HAPPEN IN TERENGGANU DURING PAS IN CONTROL? TOO MANY PROJECT AND MONEY. IF NOT MAY BE ONE DAY ALL PEOPLE EVENT CANNOT GO OUT FOR PRAYING BECAUSE OF OUR STUPIDITY.
Noblepath
November 30, 2007
Orang Baik, you have your rights to voice your bias opinion, but labelling (classifying) groups, communities and ethnics isn’t gonna lead anyone to anywhere at all. Based on this fact, you are a racist just like another one…
bolehbug
December 5, 2007
Well
The Bar Council has cancelled the Human Rights Day People’s Freedom Walk – due to “but other more significant considerations have prevailed on this occasion”
This unfortunately sounds a lot like Govtspeak, WHAT??? Allusions to May 13 bogey again and again, please enumerate and elucidate these “more significant considerations” for the sake of clarity and transparency.
But still it will be too little too late, too apologetic, too embarassing.
In simple layman speak – N.A.T.O. – No Action, Talk Only
This great insurmontable damage to the credibility of the BAR, too sad.
While the great mentalists may rationalise to the nth degree the common weal, any influence-peddlar worth his/her salt will abide to this principle = KEEP IT SIMPLE. Rationalisation are not simple, too pedantic at best, too patronising at worst.
Unfortunately, the simplest and easiest to grasp understanding of this is – submission and capitulation – everything else is rationalisation, justified or otherwise. This may be taken as naivete but every schoolkid understands the schoolyard standoff – draw a line and cross if you dare – every schoolkid understands what bullying is, the finer more esoteric points may escape but what is nakedly clear is this – a challenge and a dare – and the nakedly clear ego-shattering response = total public capitulation and humiliation.
This has to take place in as public an arena as possible, rationalise as one may after that confrontation and backing down, the clear and defining image is this – the BAR blustered and bluffed but didn’t dare.
Allowing an MP then to reiterate clearly for public consumption – “tak da bola”
Perhaps the HINDRAF rally may now be seen in clear light – the seductiveness of simplicity – its message was clear – we walk – very public and dire warnings and attempts – and then when the time came, they walked, not one, not in hundreds, but in thousands…
There is something undeniably attractive to the hitherto uninvolved – the romance of the underdog – the quixoticism of it all – the charge of the light brigade, it touches the heart
This is clear – “THOSE WHO HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO LOSE CANNOT BE DEFEATED – THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH”
Those who have will vacillate and succumb and be found wanting…
I am not advocating any of the above but surely even the blind can see the impact of calling of the walk on the credibility and leadership authority of the BAR.
Perhaps some comments to the contrary…
Siva
December 5, 2007
The Malaysians of Tamil origin need to do this for themselves. One who is not of a Malaysian Tamil extraction cannot profess to understand their grievances or talk about championing the bigger- picture cause. This is about Tamil-Hindu children and their future. The Malaysian Tamil is the lowest common denominator of the those who are born on the wrong side of the track in Malaysia. They may alienate other Malaysians who are not favoured by the UMNO hegemony by siding with HINDRAF, but it is their fight. Attempts to make the struggle more palatable to the disadvantaged bourgeois will kill the grassroots momentum.
Siva,
I think the fact of the plight of the marginalised Indian community has been emphatically made by the 25/11 rally.
Respectfully, though, I think it is time now to move away from the isolationist approach taken thus far and outreach to the rest of society.
That, in my view, is the best route to a long-term, sustainable solution to the problem at hand.
msmaniam
February 5, 2008
harris say what you want!makkal sakthi is on! only now you see this mother f888ers bn and mic c888s delivering all kind of promises.long live HINDRAF!!!!!
devi
March 31, 2008
hello uncle uthayakumar how are you ucle? My name is devi from Sepang .Uncle just i want to ask you about studying lawyer .Uncle my ambition is become a good lawyer like uncle.Now i want ask you studying lawyer in private is better or government is better uncle . My family say first you do STPM. So, i don’t know what i want to do now uncle .I’am very interesting in studying lawyer uncle .so please give me a good results about studying lawyer uncle .I always pray for you uncle and please reply me very soon uncle .send my regards to other lawyer in ISA uncle . oke bye .take care .