Moderator’s afterthought : I’m going to be exremely tough with moderating comments relating to this post.
___________________________
Malaysiakini’s ‘Mahathir : Muslims ‘annoyed’ by dutch film’ reproduces an AFP report that quotes Dr M saying :
“We are very annoyed about this video. This is the result of misunderstanding of Islam, and of course there is some political motive behind it…If Muslims unite, it will be easy to take action. If we boycott Dutch products, they will have to close down their businesses…If the world’s 1.3 billion Muslims unite and say they won’t buy, then it (the boycott) will be effective”.
The report also has the following statement from our foreign ministry :
“Portraying Islam as a religion advocating extremism is not only misleading and erroneous but also blatant disregard and utter disrespect for Islam and the sensitiveness of the Muslim world,”
I just watched Fitna about 10 minutes ago on youtube.
If Dr M is annoyed, I am saddened.
Saddened because in as much as Dutch lawman Wilders demonstrates in his movie-making how little he understands of Islam, the imageries reproduced in Wilder’s short movie does evidence that much of the Muslim world has failed to understand the way of life of peace enjoined in Islam.
There is no hate in the verses of the Holy Qur’an.
Hate, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
Hate resides in the hearts of men of all faiths who twist God’s message of peace and goodwill to all mankind, to spread their evil.
The People's Parliament 
SV Singam
March 30, 2008
I too have seen the videos. Like you, they sadden me.
We can say what we want of the person producing the videos. But he did not fabricate anything. He simply juxtaposed cleverly.
Islam is meant to be a religion of peace. Unless the moderates are ready to stand up and condemn the violence, the enemies of Islam will only get more fuel for the fire.
I am so looking forward to PAS introducing Malaysia to the real face of Islam. I hope they are not a letdown.
VC
March 30, 2008
This is not the battle of the religions but claims that may ridicule a religion.
Non-Muslims have no right to know what is written in the Koran but those who are familiar with the Koran have made it appear in the net.
Now, instead of cursing and sending hate mails, why not someone clear the confusion.
Is it true what is said is written in the Koran?
Is it true what the mullah’s are saying in their campaign is true to the fact written in the subtitles?
The whole world is watching, as such it is only good and beneficial to Islam if someone with sound knowledge of the Koran admit or deny such versus said to be written in the Koran.
It is a simple fact that either you deny or admit. And let the world interpretate the next course of action.
Now, to belief or not lies flatly on the truth going to be delivered about the Koran.
The world is waiting for a reply the soonest possible.
bayi
March 30, 2008
I have not watched the videos. I may not even do it.
But my thoughts about Islam are very much in line with yours.
There is no need to promote more hatred, what more on a flawed basis.
I choose to ignore the video.
Margeemar
March 30, 2008
Just when we thought we had just gotten over from that Damm Brown movie ‘DaVinci Code’, then comes another piece of crap from oxymoron Geert Wilders with his mentally challenged movie ‘Fitna’
Why can’t people like Wilders and Brown leave religion alone. Why not poke fun at Bush or Bin Laden. These so called creative artist would consider fantasizing having sex with their grandmother as creative thinking.
These idiots don’t care about the repercussions of their actions as they will be raking in millions while Bin Laden & Co. will convince misguided Muslims to agitate with loss of lives and property as the end result. The Chinese regime in Beijing has also got on the bandwagon by releasing video about how barbaric Tibetan Buddhism and the Dalai Lama are. These capitalist masquerading as communist are another group of scum who are going out of their way to give religion a bad name and at the same time break people’s faith. The problem here is some Chinese are so caught up with the successes of the Motherland that some of them are actually buying this crap from the Chinese spin doctors in Beijing.
People the world over no matter what religion they believe in, cling on to religion as the only reason to look forward to another day with hope. When you get idiots like Wilders and Brown destroying their only reason to live, they would loose purpose in living.
Let us come together and stand up against any oxymoron who attacks any religion. Enough is enough!
Patriotic1994
March 30, 2008
If Islam is beautiful, why we fail to see its beauty in the world?
In Christianity, there is Pope and relevant authority to defend Christians. Who is defending Muslims?
The movie is indeed sad to view. But Osama is the currently the one leading the effort to clear the name of Islam. Fellow Muslim… is he your Pope? Don’t let Islam fall onto the hands of few that use it for their own agenda.
Shanker
March 30, 2008
Dear Haris
As much as Mahathir is annoyed, & perhaps rightly so, & the rest of us saddened, we know that many, many, of his actions never reflected the true spirit of Islam of justice, peace, truthfulness, mercy etc .
How else can he justify using the ISA, locking up Anwar Ibrahim under trumped up charges, the VK lingam episode, bailing out his son Mirzan using Petronas money whilst genuine businessmen suffered under the 97 financial crisis?
IMHO, TDM would be the last person on Earth to cast a stone on Geert Wilders
Sarawakian
March 30, 2008
We are to blame for giving the film its publicity..we should have just ignored it and things would have just faded away..Because of the wo ah wo ah..people tend to want to watch it because it is the most talked show in the world..please lah ..5billion people in the world..not even a million people will watch it..how many are english speaking..and half of them are not broad band…there are more important things to tend to..It just like a japaneses child according to his understanding makes a disfigured chinese doll, will the or should the chinese protest voilently and boycott japs products..empty drum makes the most noice..
Kopi_O
March 30, 2008
The problem is Fundamentalism & Extremism. These exist in all religions! Freethinking is good… moderately religious & proseeive people takae what is good & leave the bad or not practical. In other words they cherry pick… some from all the religions… these are the best! They learn from all religions, think for themselves logically & become masters in their own way. More spiritual than religious! Good!
In this context, the human race is the guilty! In my opinion, the human race as a whole does not deserve religion! Because the majority are idiots! These idiots whom are violent & practise double standards will never learn, even with religion. So being agnostic secular & atheist is better for them in my opinion. The people of reason & science are always more peaceful & less prone to violence or practising double standards! Fact! I am a life long student of history!
Littlebird
March 30, 2008
Whether we like it or not we are at a crossroad. We look at one another with suspicion and hatred. Why and how we came to this after 2000 years of civilisation?
Anon28
March 30, 2008
As a Muslim, I am both disturbed and sad. But how does calling a boycott help? It always seems to me a knee-jerk reaction. Remember the call to boycott coca cola some time back? It, well, just fizzles out.
Better isn’t it if Muslim scholars make a concerted effort to use the same media to answer Fitna?
Hkengmacao
March 30, 2008
I watched ‘Fitna’ before deciding to give my comments. To me, Islam is the most misunderstood religion in the world civilization. If there is only one version of Quran, then why Fitna can quote some of the very scary things of hates to non-believer of Islam? This, I think should be trashed out by Islamic scholars.
The video clip ended at ‘its up to the muslims to cut the hate sowing parts out of the Quran’. Haris, please enlighten me whether there are such hate sowing parts? I just hope that ‘Fitna’ was produced without proper research of the Quran. I don’t want to link Islam with terrorism.
bedazzled
March 30, 2008
“There is no hate in the verses of theQuran”
Really? Read what Ali Sina says:
“The movie shows how the Quran provokes hate and inspires terrorism. This explosive movie does not have any comments. It consists solely of the verses of the Quran, the sermons of the Islamic clerics and what Muslims do. If Muslims are offended by it, they should ask themselves why. Do they find the Quran and their own actions embarrassing?”
There is this blind spot in he minds of muslims – they cannot see any thing wrong, even when the Western-lioberal-educated-turned fanatics among them (like Mohamed Atta)learned how to crash planes into buildins killing thousands of innocents men,women and children incl Muslims.You just feel sad eh?
biohazard3003
March 30, 2008
I’ve seen the footage and what is sad me most the interpretations of the wording of sub is most disturbing. It make people feel outrage by the wrong and mishaps of the director. it is the beauty of wording in Al-Quran will never be that cruel in such manner. I feel very disappointed why such human being could be so radical to bring up such ethical issue for people to hate each other. Face the fact that why most of the cases like Sept. 11 still under investigation, and why does the director of this film never went to Palestine and watch with his very own eyes what happening there. I thinks this is the time that Muslim be more stand up to fight for our right. We are gifted with guide of Al-Quran and it is wise for us to show how strong we are in the World Economic, Science& Technology, Politics, and prove to them that this film is only cause outrage among people. Let’s make them know how beauty Islam is. I believe that we can life together in this world. Just remember that there is in one of the Surah in Al-Quran that mention ” human is rise by many kind of race, skin color and religious,… just for them to know each other and take care of wellbeing” its a fact don’t you agree. Why this kind of statement does not include in the footage of the film?? it will be good to show that Islam is the way of life not such annoying short film. If we tackle this issue wisely I’m sure that all the people will respect us as a one of strong and wise religious.
Discrimination69
March 30, 2008
Wilders has done a wonderful job in opening the eyes of Europeans and the world, muslims and non muslims alike.
All religion has a segment of extremism even amongst the christians but it is not so much manifested in advocacy of violence as we seen today through the eyes of Al Queda or JI etc. We denounce all forms of terrorism regardless of ideology or religion.
All mankind should take note of Wilders’ reminder that the the extremist muslim movement is spreading fast and if left to propogate it can destroy peace in many parts of the world.
This movie Fitna is an honest effort in showing the desire of Wilders in seeking a peaceful world, even if the truth hurts.
Muslims are even fighting muslims, sunni against shiite in the middle east and this is sad.
The world need to look at this movie with an open mind and ask our selves the basic moral questions. Do we want peace and co- exist?
Should the moderate peace loving muslims counsel their extremist brothers instead of getting upset with Wilders or keeping quiet?
Bananachinese
March 31, 2008
The response from the less enlightened unfortunately overshadows the more rational and compassionate ones whenever religious or race issues crops up.
Must engage and not hide behind dogmas (however real one tends perceive it)
I’ve blogged on a possible response by civil society here:
Richard Teo
March 31, 2008
No religion in the world need mere mortals to defend any religion from scurilous portrayal of their religion.If the God of any religion is a strong and mighty God no mortals need to defend it with violence.Why do muslims always seem the need to defend their religion?Let the criticism flow. God do not need your help to defend his cause. I dont see christians or jews burning mosques or killing muslims in order to defend their religion.Why do muslims have to defend their religion by resrting to violence?
Paul Warren
March 31, 2008
Saw the clip shortly after it came out. Should admit there was nothing there that I understood. Nevertheless there was nothing in the video shots that were new to me either. HAve seen them all before and some long ago.
I cannot claim that I know for sure what verses of the Koran that were referred to or what exactly it said. I can only assume. It is for those who know to tie how the verses that precede a video clipping relates to one another. Presumably it does. If anything, if indeed relationships are established between the verses shown or read, the exhortations of those who spoke and the violence that followed, which we all generally recognise to have been violence associated with religiously motivated actions, then wilders would have succeeded to have tied everything together.
Whether or not it pretends to be an academically supported documentary, fact remains Wilders appears to have associated verses from presumably the Koran to violent actions that we all have become acquainted with.
In attempting to dismiss such a documentary, verbal diarrhoea is not going to do it. Plain dismissal and accusation of such a work of bigotry, Islamaphobia and such will fall hollow. How does Dr Mahathir’s statement “We are very annoyed about this video. This is the result of misunderstanding of Islam, and of course there is some political motive behind it…If Muslims unite, it will be easy to take action. If we boycott Dutch products, they will have to close down their businesses…If the world’s 1.3 billion Muslims unite and say they won’t buy, then it (the boycott) will be effective” address what is being said in the movie? It addresses nothing. All that he has succeeded in doing is to issue a threat. He has not addressed any accusation, if any, that has been made in the movie.
On that score, unlike the response of the church to Da Vinci Code where literature was outed and widely circulated to counter any aspersions cast by Dan Brown’s postulations, the Islamic reaction so far has only been to threaten and warn Wilders and Holland for the movie. Sorry, but not good enough.
Richard Teo
March 31, 2008
Dear Mahahtir,
Why condemn the Dutch when your own heart is full of sin? You should spend time in the twilight of your years reflecting on your own weakness and sins.During your years of service to the country you have been a corrupt and cruel leader. You imprisoned innocent people using the ISA because you were fearful of their challenge.You committed Fitnah agagainst your fellow muslim brother because he was a threat to your position.So please stop crticising others when your own soul is full of dirt.Go cleanse your soul before you cast aspersion on others.
trashed
March 31, 2008
I have also seen the video and SV Singham’s comments sums up my feelings concisely.
As for Margeemar’s question on why Wilders made the film, I think he feels threatened. I don’t think he will make millions out of this 15 min video.
As for Dan Brown, it was probably more for economic reasons and he probably did make millions.
Noor Aza Othman
March 31, 2008
Haris, and I thought you of all people, treasure freedom of speech and thoughts. Better to reclaim such fundamental human rights that than be silenced irrationally and brutally as what the Umno goons are doing to the rakyat don’t you think? Religion is part of a cultural tradition; within the spiritual sphere. Muslims do not represent a race but followers of the cultural tradition. Hence criticizing Islam does not mean about criticizing race, hence being racist. In the 21st. century, the Muslim elite class are not ready to give up their primitive and unjust power of controlling and brainwashing the followers. Any religion is about promoting fundamentally inner enlightenment; to be a better and just person, personally first before socially. Thus why many ordinary Muslims are not enlightened are due to such political brainwashing programme rather than having them discovering for themselves as free people, a self-discovery journey towards such enlightenment. No wonder the Umno goons can shout out Islam Hadhari(whatever that means for goodness sake!)whilst committing the most barbaric acts, especially in oppressing the rakyat that include the non-Islamic ethnic groups. And why ordinary Malay/Muslims have normalized such barbarity by their leaders as if such heinous acts are consented by the religion even.
Thus, I’m sick of Muslims, especially from the male-elite class that are ensuring that Islamic civilization and its followers remain backward, primitive and most fundamentally ‘unfree’, especially psychologically. Thus easy to control isn’t it; the psychological weapon is the most dangerous political weapon there is, rather than bombs and so on? Muslims need to bring their house in order before continue on shouting irrationally everytime their tradition (again, not race) i.e religion is criticized. Hence, I for once would like to see Muslims especially the males, go out protesting, on the issues of barbaric violence sanctioned in Islam against women such as the stoning of adulterous women in Iran, “legitimized” honor-kilings and rapes(due to the silence of Sharia “laws” on this although its widespread enough among Muslims especially in the Middle East and South Asia), forced marriages, forced imposition of the veil on young girls and undue pressure on adult women, the killings of gay people in some communities, the injustice of the Sharia “laws” and many more atrocities committed under Islam. Is it any wonder then that many amidst the western population, especially the progressive liberal ones are appalled by such injustice and sanction. And the nerve of the Muslim communities trying to impose their values especially in curtailing freedom of thought and speech in the western world? But only when it comes down to criticism of Islam. I don’t see them shouting out for silence of such freedom do they, when Muslims and westerners alike go marching against the war in Iraq. Or when they can protest freely in the west such as against the film or the prophet’s cartoon? Thus, is it any wonder then that their hypocrisy must be astonishing and unacceptable to the western eyes??!!
Ark
March 31, 2008
If those interpretations are indeed flawed, someone should debunk them in a rational manner. As a non-believer, those quotations about ‘terrorising your enemy’ seem very disturbing. In the words, point out what is actually wrong with that video.
Surind
March 31, 2008
Hope this helps:
http://surind.blogspot.com/2008/03/manifesto-for-challenging-radical-islam.html
In my opinion, as a practising Atheist: Yes, hate, intollerance, fear, etc. resides in the hearts of man. So does peace, love, tolerance, etc (moral/civilised principles & values). Some of us “for sure”, do not need a so called “God’s message” to see, do & be those great things of morals & principles.
shar101
March 31, 2008
Anybody watched the video on Saddam’s hanging?
I didn’t because I chose not to.
But then again, I did wonder if it was made with muslim hands holding the vidcam.
And am still not interested to watch CSL – Muar.
Thomas Jefferson
March 31, 2008
Religions are all alike — founded upon fables and mythologies.
Get rid of religion and man kind shall stay in peace. Just imagine how many lives could be spared should there is no religion is this world. Many have been killed in the name of religion and god. thinks carefully.
temenggong
March 31, 2008
I agree with Noor Aza Othman and Ark.
The islam that is practised out there is the real islam of the masses and not the conceptual islam as per the quran. We are talking of this ‘real islam of the masses’ and not the ‘conceptual islam of the quran.’ Fitna depicts that ‘real’ view.
Honestly we don’t see “the true spirit of Islam of justice, peace, truthfulness, mercy etc.” That is the ‘conceptual islam of the quran.’ Now, where is it?
We are told by one and all to ignore and dismiss the real islam of the masses as unrepresentative, and are reminded of the conceptual islam of the quran, and that this real islam is an extremist view of a misguided minority.
But we see this everyday in Malaysia in the media and its spins, in the political talks of our leaders, when we mix with the local ethnic muslims, etc.
Which part of Fitna is erroneous? That there is no female gentalia mutilation even in europe?
Anyway, Fitna is grappling the bull by its horns!
SV Singam
March 31, 2008
The problem lies in the difference between religion and spirituality.
Spirituality is one’s personal relationship with whatever one chooses to believe in.
Religion is the organised activity of a group of people professing to believe in the same things.
When an activity becomes organised, there will soon be a hierarchy of organisation, then management, then control. Members of the organisation will seek to keep their fellows from straying. Deviations will be identified and then first frowned upon, and finally banned.
Inexorably, the power hierarchy will take steps to ensure its own dominance. The power structure will grow, become corrupted, feed upon its own membership and then will face an internal revolution or reformation. We have seen Christianity go through this stage. It is time for Islam to grow out of its adolescence. Only Muslims can make this happen.
So long as theocrats dominate a religion, they will continue to divert it to their own ends. When theocrats become politicians, things get worse. When politicians pretend to be religious leaders, things totally fall apart.
We are able to observe first-hand how Islam has been hijacked by UMNO to serve narrow ethnic interests. Amplify that multi-fold and you will get what Islamism is doing to the civilised world.
What the world needs is less religion and more spirituality. It does not matter whether you are an atheist or profess a religion. If you believe your actions can transcend your physical reach and you are willing to contribute towards making the world a better place, you share a common goal, a spiritual goal.
Scott Thong
March 31, 2008
Sir Haris, I too am saddened to note that – yet again – the Muslim leaders of the world are venting their outrage at Westerners deemed to be mocking Islam by portraying it as a violent religion…
Yet not one of them utters a peep about the extremists who call for death and jihad against nonMuslims as featured preaching hate in the film – the same ones who cause Westerners to view Islam as a violent religion.
Those extremists are the ones hijacking and ‘rebranding’ Islam as a religion of war and intolerance in the public eye. Yet none of the moderate Muslim leaders denounce or reject them.
Instead, they issue more calls for boycotts, more protests, perhaps more fatwas against Wilders, a man whose image of Islam is coloured by those very extremists and their multiple death threats against him (even before the film).
What image does this portray to the West when every single time, the Muslim leaders of the world attack the messenger (Wilders or newspaper cartoons), but not the message (extremists who are successfully using Islam as a rallying cry for violence and hatred)?
I’ll make an educated guess on the above question: Westerners will suspect that the so-called moderates secretly support the views of those extremists.
In fact, I am certain that Wilders is counting on such a knee-jerk reaction from Muslims, with maybe some riots and spontaneous murders or innocent bystanders thrown in (like what happened with the Jyllands-Posten controversy), in order to prove his point to the world.
If his aim to influence public opinion into seeing all Muslims as violent extremists, then I’m afraid that Mahathir and all the rest of the prominent Muslim moderates are only aiding his agenda.
Muslims of the world, fix this PR disaster now – denounce the extremists featured in Fitna along with Geert Wilders!
(This comment is reposted on my blog.)
SV Singam
March 31, 2008
This video has highlighted what I see as an interesting revelation. The Fire alluded to in Surah 4:56 is nothing more than the hellfire mentioned several times in the Bible, eg. Psalm 20:9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the Lord shall swallow them up in His wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
What is significantly different is that Surah 4:56 proclaims As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment.
Exchange the skin several times, to me, is an allusion to being born again and again in the flesh. When one realises the nature of the soul and is no longer drawn by the lures of the flesh, one is freed from the hell of rebirth.
range
March 31, 2008
Hate begets hate.
The short movie was made by a right-wing politician from the Netherlands. Just like Germany and the Turks in the 1970-80s, the Netherlands are heading into a crisis.
We all believe in one God. That should bring us together, not divide us.
konspeerasee
March 31, 2008
i haven’t seen this film but from what i’ve heard and read it potrays islam in such terrible way…my point of view is we as islam should make this as a pin point for us to be more united with each other.muslim nowadays are being seperated in partitions of race,power and money.this is what i see in today’s world of islam.this film is a coward thing that had been done by the dutch filmmakers.they had realize that islam shall reign again ‘if’ we are united.leaders of islam should think what will happen to the next generations of islam rather than juz thinking how to clear the word ‘islam’ from extremism.this little things such as drug abuse,alcohol and zina has been ‘friends’ to kids in my generation.im asking forgiveness to those who shall be offended by my words.Assalammualaikum.
Paul Warren
March 31, 2008
Scott Thong brought out an interesting perpective. That Wilders sees Islam throught he eyes of those you see in the movies.
For most of us Malaysian non-Muslims we have ready access to close friends and colleagues,and some relatives even, and our first view of Islam is through the conduct, characters and behaviours of these people.
Indeed when at the BERSIH rally of 10 Nov. when PAS supporters and other Muslims were shouting “Allah Hu Akhbar” those of us who would normally have felt concerned, did not. I know that I was in theier midst,in support, for what ever it was they were addressing. It is a different kind of view of Islam that we experience and see when we have good close friends who are Muslims.
If for many of us in Malaysia that view is clouded, it might be that we have been forced to see Islam through UMNO’s windows. Then of course Islam gets a bad name.
Kevin
March 31, 2008
In the absence of voice of enlightenment and moderation, whatever voice that is present is then considered as norm and truth.
Sagaladoola
March 31, 2008
My writing on this film…
Title : Controversial Fitna and The Boycott on Dutch
Link : http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com/2008/03/controversial-fitna-and-boycott-on.html
patrioticamerican
March 31, 2008
I am less offended by Wilders’ video than of the many beheading and homocide bombing videos circulated by terrorists and their supporters in the media around the world.
Until an outcry arises that condemns the inhumanity and hatred of THOSE execution films and of the extremist propaganda that fuels them, there is not going to be much support for censoring Mr. Wilders’ Fitna.
cancervixen
March 31, 2008
Dutch citizen here,
We all know in Dutchie land that Wilders is two cards shy of a full deck of cards. He is misusing xenophobic rural people scaring them using old tride and true nazi technics. Muslims are sweet and loving dutch citizens who perfer not to watch such cut and paste teener project. He did not even have permission to use the last Danish cartoon. Just proving again how much of an idiot he truly is.
For the rest of the dutch including myself we are truly sorry, and ashamed that such a man can hold a chair in parlement, and produce such garbage.
Please believe my words, because my family member is also a politician and we have no love for Geert Wilders.
frmad
March 31, 2008
CONGRATULATION from
blogrank.info for the hot post
Vaseau
March 31, 2008
Just a couple of points:
1. Mahathir forfeited his right to be “annoyed” after his 22 year regime during which time he never came across as an embodiment of love or an apostle of peace. He was and still is a sniper from the wings…an annoyance if you will.
2. Those who truly know Islam will not be “annoyed” or peeved by Wilders opinion. They will instead work harder at re-branding it as a religion of peace. In Malaysia, PAS now has that opportunity. Let us hope it seizes the moment.
mazin123
March 31, 2008
To SV sangam
you wrote
//What is significantly different is that Surah 4:56 proclaims As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment.
Exchange the skin several times, to me, is an allusion to being born again and again in the flesh. When one realises the nature of the soul and is no longer drawn by the lures of the flesh, one is freed from the hell of rebirth.//
IT does not mean rebirth .
The full verse is ” Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” i.e after their death ,they will be sent to hell ,where when the fire burns up the skin ,people will be given fresh skins so as to feel more pain . There is no death in Hell it is perpetual misery and torment.
Aulia
March 31, 2008
Good controvertion, please check this out:
jay-yong
March 31, 2008
If what is portrayed in Fitna is not true, then choose to ignore it. Endeavour instead in yr own life, to show the truth of Islam and the message of tolerance, peace and love that it teaches. We cannot stop people from spreading lies or half-truths.
As much as I sympatise with the Muslims about the attack against Islam, I am reminded of the time when Da Vincci Code was first released. Despite it having serious implications against the Christian faith and the doctrines of our faith, Malaysia allowed it to be screened in our local cinemas. How did the Christians respond ? There was no call for boycott. More importantly, did the Government or Mahathir speak against the movie or at least RESPECT the Christians by not screening the movie in Malaysia? The answer is NO.
I await the day when we can all begin to respect each other’s religious beliefs.
shar101
April 1, 2008
Folks,
Please don’t get mad, annoyed and/or saddened (or whatever).
Just Ge(er)t Wilder(s). Foaming in the mouth is a prerequisite.
If that’s not your cup of tea, then I’ll suggest you watch “BARAKA”, a 1992 non-verbal cinematic extravaganza filmed in 70mm Todd-AO format (high definition) by director Ron Fricke with a 3-person crew over a period of 14 months in 20 countries (sorry, Malaysia was not included) across 6 continents. Suffice to say, religious rituals were extensively highlighted.
The word ‘baraka’ is an ancient sufi word with forms in many languages, translated as ‘a blessing’, or as the breath, or essence of life from which the evolutionary process unfolds’. (footnote – not to be confused with the abbreviated ‘barak’ which Rocky tried to promote with the launch of Barisan Rakyat which is now accredited to Haris Ibrahim on Wikipedia).
If you can’t get a dvd copy, there’s a whole buncha photos at this site –
http://www.spiritofbaraka.com/baraka.aspx
Watch it and yer might end up hugging the first person you meet thereafter, irrespective of her/his religious affiliations.
Cancervixen have reached out. This is my way. When will you be doing something positive as well?
P.S. Yeah, I got a p****** dvd copy.
myop101
April 1, 2008
To add to what Scott Thong have said, the Muslim leaders should not only speak out but proactively reject those causing harm by distorting the true picture of Islam. They have to actively reject the violence perpetrated by those “defenders” of Islam.
Personally, to best way to silence the critics is to win them over, not silencing and cowing them with fear.
No one is perfect, that I agree (and some are obviously flawed), but if none seek perfection, then why should we complain about imperfections?
barry
April 1, 2008
So long as the Muslim world continues to keep (Malaysian style ‘elegant’) silence over the constant threats and destruction of innocent lives (of non-Muslims) ‘in the name of Allah’, the rest of the non-Muslim world will continue to believe that Islam is a very violent and evil religion indeed. It is not difficult to compare, considering what the Christians and Buddhists have gone through; despite all the ‘attacks’ against their religions, no threats of ‘Jihad’ or terror coming from their quarters. Here in Malaysia, we are encouraged to boycott Dutch products/services (no more Philips!) just because ONE Dutchman chose to air his personal view, instead of demonstrating how much Islam is as a ‘peaceful and beautiful’ religion.
SV Singam
April 1, 2008
Shar101,
For me, it’s not about what Gene Wilder did. It’s about the source material available to him.
Sure, we can look at nicer things and remain obliviously happy. But the nastiness is still going on around us.
So long as the good people remain silent, evil will flourish unrestrained. This message has been delivered most eloquently by many.
Which high-profile Muslim leader is ready to stand up and condemn the violence of islamist terrorists? Whom can we appeal to as the voice of reason?
These are my concerns.
Wisdom above
April 1, 2008
1)All that he has succeeded in doing is to issue a threat. He has not addressed any accusation, if any, that has been made in the movie.
2)We can say what we want of the person producing the videos. But he did not fabricate anything. He simply juxtaposed cleverly.
3)Islam is meant to be a religion of peace. Unless the moderates are ready to stand up and condemn the violence, the enemies of Islam will only get more fuel for the fire.
4)If those interpretations are indeed flawed, someone should debunk them in a rational manner. As a non-believer, those quotations about ‘terrorising your enemy’ seem very disturbing. In the words, point out what is actually wrong with that video.
5)The islam that is practised out there is the real islam of the masses and not the conceptual islam as per the quran. We are talking of this ‘real islam of the masses’ and not the ‘conceptual islam of the quran.’ Fitna depicts that ‘real’ view.
6)We are told by one and all to ignore and dismiss the real islam of the masses as unrepresentative, and are reminded of the conceptual islam of the quran, and that this real islam is an extremist view of a misguided minority.
7)Which part of Fitna is erroneous? That there is no female gentalia mutilation even in europe?
Anyway, Fitna is grappling the bull by its horns!
8)It is time for Islam to grow out of its adolescence. Only Muslims can make this happen.
So long as theocrats dominate a religion, they will continue to divert it to their own ends. When theocrats become politicians, things get worse. When politicians pretend to be religious leaders, things totally fall apart.
9)What the world needs is less religion and more spirituality. It does not matter whether you are an atheist or profess a religion. If you believe your actions can transcend your physical reach and you are willing to contribute towards making the world a better place, you share a common goal, a spiritual goal.
10)- yet again – the Muslim leaders of the world are venting their outrage at Westerners deemed to be mocking Islam by portraying it as a violent religion…
Yet not one of them utters a peep about the extremists who call for death and jihad against nonMuslims as featured preaching hate in the film – the same ones who cause Westerners to view Islam as a violent religion.
11)Those extremists are the ones hijacking and ‘rebranding’ Islam as a religion of war and intolerance in the public eye. Yet none of the moderate Muslim leaders denounce or reject them.
12)Instead, they issue more calls for boycotts, more protests, perhaps more fatwas against Wilders, a man whose image of Islam is coloured by those very extremists and their multiple death threats against him (even before the film).
13)What image does this portray to the West when every single time, the Muslim leaders of the world attack the messenger (Wilders or newspaper cartoons), but not the message (extremists who are successfully using Islam as a rallying cry for violence and hatred)?
I’ll make an educated guess on the above question: Westerners will suspect that the so-called moderates secretly support the views of those extremists.
14)If his aim to influence public opinion into seeing all Muslims as violent extremists, then ….. and all the rest of the prominent Muslim moderates are only aiding his agenda.
15)Muslims of the world, fix this PR disaster now – denounce the extremists featured in Fitna along with Geert Wilders!
16)This video has highlighted what I see as an interesting revelation. The Fire alluded to in Surah 4:56 is nothing more than the hellfire mentioned several times in the Bible, eg. Psalm 20:9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the Lord shall swallow them up in His wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
What is significantly different is that Surah 4:56 proclaims As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment.
17)In the absence of voice of enlightenment and moderation, whatever voice that is present is then considered as norm and truth.
18)I am less offended by Wilders’ video than of the many beheading and homocide bombing videos circulated by terrorists and their supporters in the media around the world.
Until an outcry arises that condemns the inhumanity and hatred of THOSE execution films and of the extremist propaganda that fuels them, there is not going to be much support for censoring Mr. Wilders’ Fitna.
19)Those who truly know Islam will not be “annoyed” or peeved by Wilders opinion. They will instead work harder at re-branding it as a religion of peace.
All the above views are very positive analysis.
Can someone just use your money & produce another movie to rebut each & every single allegations in details.
Show that the violences perpetuated by ‘extremists’ were misquoted & are not true at all.
Surely we have educated muslims scholars who can rebut one & every single allegations backed up by quoting many relevant Surahs in the Koran.
A well documented & unbiased movie should be suffice to dispel doubts & distortions.
The issue is who is courageous & enlightened to produce a unbiased movie to counter the Fitna ?
Syabas. Barisan Rakyat
Baron Strawberrymunchen
April 1, 2008
Before an opinion is formed or a comment made on the short film Fitna by Geert Wilders (or anything for that matter), the evidence (the content of the material) must be given due consideration. Otherwise, we simple end up being prejudicial.
Therefore, before minds are made and opinions are offered:
We should watch the film to know and understand what is being conveyed, whether the content is distorted and inaccurate or whether, for example, the Quranic verses described in the film is accurate and correct. We should be able to scrutinise the content of the film and ask ourselves whether what is shown in the film is fake or made-up, or unacceptably distasteful for the eyes and feelings of the people.
We should watch it to obtain an understanding of the aim of the author, or the message that he is trying to convey, and whether the message that he is trying to convey is fair or unfair, or blasphemous or descriptive of the theme tackled by the film.
To unthinkingly react to the film without viewing the evidence and judging it just for what it is (e.g., hailing the film as fully instructional of all that Islam stands for, or conversely, to label it as an outright hateful anti-Islam propaganda) is wrong.
Laksarian
April 1, 2008
walski69
April 1, 2008
Bro, I think we are pretty much on the same page as far as this short film is concerned…
To answer some of the other commenters, however, the 5 ayat used in the film were either taken out of context, or mistranslated (in the case of the last one, 8:39), to prove a foregone conclusion on Geert Wilders’ part. But I agree that the saddest thing is that the supporting materials are all too real…
Ironically, all the 5 verses, if taken in the correct context, taking the adjacent verses into consideration, all underline God’s infinite mercy, and emphasize forgiveness over vengeance, and repentence over arrogance. IMHO – it is incumbent upon everyone, therefore, to re-read these verses in their proper context and reflect upon the real message conveyed… (here’s a good translation reference site: http://yaqb.org/)
By doing that alone do we realize how wrong Geert Wilders impressions are, as are the actions portrayed, used as “evidence” in this indictment called Fitna…
walski69
April 1, 2008
Forgot to mention that I had blogged on this too: http://asylum60.blogspot.com/2008/03/fueling-fitna.html
shar101
April 1, 2008
SV,
I’d rather do what I can in my small little way instead of waiting for a ‘high profile muslim leader’ to do the big right thing.
It’s the least that I can do in reply to cancervixen, a resident of Holland, who provided the background of GW and extended an olive branch.
Remember when we were encouraging others to make each vote count towards bringing about the right changes during GE12? The same analogy applies. We address our concerns starting with the people around us.
Therefore, let me ask you this – you’ve met Imtiaz, Haris and me? Do we represent the ‘real’ Islam as alluded by others here?
Meanwhile, GW hates Islam but not muslims (duh?) and considers moderate Islam as a contradiction. I can’t even begin to understand where he’s coming from.
So I end up having this discussion with you. Fair enough?
RAJ RAMAN
April 1, 2008
Haris,i dont want to comment about any religion,but you can tell me how to view the Fitna.
I dont play around with internet.So much so whenever i i try to view i hit the wall of your dinasarous it park.
I think i am getting better with my teacher Mr.S.V with my writing skill.Thanks.Raj Raman.
RELIGION;MY PROBLEM TO ANWSER TO GOD WHO CREATED TO MANY RELIGION.HE MESS UP THE HUMAN KIND WITH TO MANY BIBLE.
PLease email to me.I dont know whether you can track my email.Still blur with bloggers.
SV Singam
April 2, 2008
Shar101,
My first encounter with a real Muslim took place nearly 30 years ago. My neighbours moved out and a new family moved in – a young Uztaz with a lovely wife (face uncovered) and 3 beautiful children. To me, they epitomised living as a Muslim – gentle, peace loving, friendly… they had no problem with the children attending my son’s birthday party.
When I moved to my next house, a Malay family moved in next door shortly after us. Again, a very nice family. The old man was a bit opinionated, a hard-core UMNO man who enjoyed the occasional tipple, the children were a bit spoilt, the mother was a really nice lady… and we got along very well. I believe they too were Muslim. Because I believe Islam offers a great latitude in how one is to live.
The defining moment in my understanding of Islam came when I hired a Pakistani software engineer. Through him, I finally learned what Islam really was about.
I guess I was lucky to have met the right kind of Muslims. But far too many people are not so lucky.
You are right, one’s understanding of a religion is defined by the people one meets. The sad thing is that too many people meet the wrong kind of Muslim. This may be because there are far too many of the wrong kind of Muslims around or it could be that the right kind of Muslims are not visible enough.
What do you think?
Renee
April 2, 2008
I looked for the video on YouTube upon reading the hype of it in the newspapers. Watching such a video clip strikes fear in my heart. The knowledge that there are such people in the world who incite hatred amongst people, between religions, who are such extremists is overwhelming. Such existence is bad, the actions of GW is worse because he has taken it in such proportions that most definitely people will balk at such a sight.
I wish people understood more about what Islam is about. I have a Muslim friend and she has nothing but love in her. People should take the time to understand.
Olia
April 15, 2008
hello. i’m going to become dutch this wensday. since soon this will be officially my country, i’d like to say this:
a lot of people dont approve him or support him. but the netherlands are very progressive country, the downside of it being a goverment which has no balls to act.
i dont think that boycotting is the right solution. sure, i’m biased here, but i just dun think he’ll give a damn.
i also think that islam is misunderstood. and i dont know all that much about it either. i know they dont treat girls well. but if you dont like something, you should talk about it. thats what i think. and not make a movie to insult people, without even trying to discuss things 1st.