In my ‘Have we really migrated from indifference and apathy in the face of oppression of the other?’ post, I drew attention to the threat by the Selangor Islamic Affairs, Malay Customs, Infrastructure and Basic Amenities Committee chairperson, Dr Hasan Ali, to “bury” a small Ahmadiyah community in Selayang, Selangor.
I had, in that post, asked that we not allow the current Pakatan Rakyat Selangor state government to do to the Ahmaddiyah community in Selayang what the UMNO led Terengganu state government did to the Sky Kingdom villagers in 2005.
I had also asked of those who have, in the last two months, joined me in fellowship with our Hindu brothers in Hulu Selangor to defend their right of worship, what now of the threat to our Ahmadiyah brothers and sisters?
Well, our Ahmadiyah anak-anak Bangsa Malaysia have asked me to extend an invitation to all and sundry to a Majlis Mesra Rakyat this weekend.
Date : 1st February, 2009 ( Sunday )
Time : 4pm
Venue : Baitussalam,
No.11A, Jalan Nakhoda Kanan,
Kampung Nakhoda,Selangor
For further enquiries, please contact Encik Ainul Yakin Mud Zain at 03-61896715 or 013-2066865
For those of you who would like to join me in getting to know our Ahmadiyah brothers and sisters, and might not be familiar with the location of the venue, let’s meet at the Esso station opposite Batu Caves at between 3.30 – 3.45pm.
Alternatively, you may want to contact Ainul to make your own arrangements.
People, let’s do it.
The People's Parliament 
joenathan
January 28, 2009
Hi Harris,
Can you enlighten us more about the teachings of this group called Ahmadiyah?From what little I learned about them recently,they suppose to be moderate muslims who respect non-muslims and refrain from calling them `kefirs’ etc,is it true that they have their origin in India?Interesting indeed.
joenathan,
Why not attend the fellowship and have your queries answered by them?
cresma
January 28, 2009
tumpang tanya,
I rase Ahmadiyah ni ajaran sesat sbb menyimpang dari ajaran Islam yang sebenar…
Setahu saya, mrk mengiktiraf kewujudan nabi lain selepas Nabi Muhammad saw… itu sudah terkeluar dari landasan rukun iman…
Tk..
cresma,
Hadiri majlis mesra rakyat anjuran ahmadiyah untuk dapatkan maklumat secara langsung mengenai fahaman mereka
Sivakumar
January 28, 2009
Brother Haris,
I certainly shall provide whatever support to my fellow Ahmadiyah brothers whose freedom to worship I respect and whose oppression I reject.
It should be an interesting majlis, but I am far away, but I shall tell my friends about it.
Abdul Rahman
January 29, 2009
I guess when one has a track record of lying against ISlam, one cannot but help to join forces with other people whom have lied about Islam as well.
Remember Maulana Muhd Ali and how you quote his interpretation of 02:54. He comes from the same sect as these people.
Liars band together, that what I always say.
Abdul Rahman
January 29, 2009
Oh before I forget, I am still waiting for your condemnation of Moses due to persecution of cow worshipper as stated in 02:54
syauqi_x
January 29, 2009
bro haris…
it’s one thing to respect the diversity that we have in this blessed country of ours…
i totally agree that people of different races and beliefs should be able to live together as brothers in peace and harmony…
but it’s quite another thing when it comes to movements like ahmadiyah…
this is about our Aqidah haris…the very essence of being a muslim…
perhaps it’s the approach that needs to be remedied…
they are laws in Islam regarding sects like ahmadiyah, and i believe you pretty much know about them…
i know maybe a lot of our non muslim friends are quite perplexed when they read this, but it is our job haris to explain to them why the likes of ahmadiyah (and also al arqam, ayah pin etc2…) need to be dealt accordingly…
confronting them with gun blazing is absolutely not an option…it will only cause them to further seclude themselves away from the rest of the society…
i hope you could write something concerning this issue, just for the sake of clarity…
syauqi_x,
Bro, if I can find the time after the fellowship on Sunday, I will try to pen my thoughts here.
Even if you and I regard the Ahmadiyah as not being Muslim, I think it is not our place to prevent them from practising their beliefs. That, it would seem, is what the authorities are intent on doing.
My purpose in joining them in fellowship is not to validate their beliefs, or to judge them. That is not my purview, nor yours. It is to acknowledge their God-given right to believe as they do.
Peace, bro
eagle
January 29, 2009
What is this Ahmadiyah. Not many people know about this. Is it Islamic deviants or just another sect in Islam.
So, what is the qualm with Hasaan Ali. What is the Law pertaining to religion of Islam and what kind of Islamic religion that is allowed in this nation that the citizen can practice.
Brother, what is the status of this Ahmadiyah? Islam or No – who can give the answer. Some kind of authority must declare the status and no need to go to war. In God we trust!!!
eagle,
Attend the fellowship and have your queries answered first hand.
temenggong
January 29, 2009
Okay, coming.
Meng
January 29, 2009
I am sure in religion no man can play the role of god to denounce another man’s believe. It is between him and his creator…unless ofcourse that man thinks that he is big enough to call himself god
So far I have not heard of Ahmadiyah muslim going out to kill or destroy temples..So what the big fuss all about…or Hassan Ali, are you god??
sampalee
January 29, 2009
How right liars band together.All under one roof umno and have fellowshups with other groups of liars mca and mic.Also how can simple lying be worse than institutionalised evil like ISA.Some munafiq with eyes see less than the blind.
malaysianfirst
January 29, 2009
Haris,
I will be there.
But perhaps we can try to ascertain with greater certainty what the threats are that has been issued by Dr Hassan Ali. Are these real and concrete threats and is the Ahmadiyah community in real and present danger as they say.
In the case of defending the Hulu Selangor Hindu temples right of worship I think the danger was clear and present in that the police wanted to go there on that particular day to stop them and the concerned Anak Bangsa Malaysia went to support them at the right time.
So, I am not sure whether this get together with the Ahmadiyah believers is too premature or not but the intention to lend them support to have their right of worship has my support. But I will be there.
We need to overcome hate with love not more hate. We should overcome ignorance with knowledge and love and not with conceited force whether physical or by “law” of the majority. Might is not right.
malaysianfirst,
Hear! Hear!
Admiral Tojo
January 29, 2009
Rahman Celcom aka Mahaguru whatever, will you be coming? I will be there with Haris and perhaps we can have a chat, if you are not too busy that is. Remember me? I am the one that called you a follower of the Pagan Arab Religion of Stone Worship. We can discuss this and do bring the Quran for easy reference.
Salaam
mirabilis
January 29, 2009
It is to acknowledge their God-given right to believe as they do.
Sorry but all the ‘god-given’ fairytales in the ‘holy’ books have far more often sanctioned murder and mayhem against competing delusionists or kafirs or infidels. Freedom to believe or disbelieve is a very modern and completely hardwon SECULAR right. You can thank the Enlightenment for it, rather than your particular deity.
Your defence of religious freedom is admirable but the cause is lost right from the start if woolly arguments based on one or two koranic/biblical verses are used. Because we know of the dozens of others calling you to er, smite the disbelievers. We know what the canon of theological laws actually say. We know of the bloodsoaked reputations of religions. We have read history books. We continue to read the newspapers. Why we can even read some of the comments on this blog to know the truth of how the religious deal with ‘dissenters and deviants’.
Pak Sako
January 29, 2009
The commenter Mirabilis has made a very pertinent point that is worthy of consideration by all those who visit this page:
While we shall rightly defend the personal freedom of any people to believe in any religion they like and in whichever way they prefer, it is critically important to know and understand that this principle is a part of the far more encompassing and universal human right to believe or to disbelieve.
Hence, to summarise: we have, first, freedom with regards religion in general, that is: the freedom to choose or believe in religion as well as the freedom to not subscribe to any religion at all. Second, if one wishes to subscribe to a religion, then one shall have the right to believe in any religion he or she prefers, and practice it in whichever form he or she prefers. Implicit in all this is the freedom from being forced or induced by others into believing or converting to any religion.
This is guaranteed us by Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR). Of course, there are those in Malaysia and a number of other countries who feel that the UDHR is incompatible with their beliefs; they usually have problems with the clause that guarantees freedom of religion. They may view more favourably an alternative declaration of rights, but this declaration lacks universality and contains restrictive elements (see the annotations in red in the linked website).
Having settled the above, we now encounter another problem: the issue of religious prejudice and religious supremacy. In many societies including ours, adherents of one faith can be highly disdainful of adherents of other faiths. This feeling of prejudice and supremacy sometimes gets translated into public policy or becomes embedded in how public institutions work. This is a most regrettable state of affairs and should be disapproved of and rectified.
joenathan
January 29, 2009
Harris,
I truly wish I could attend,as this issue is really intriguing,but being a domicile of a far away land,I am afraid I cant make it.Anyway thanks for the invitation.
joenathan,
Google Ahmadiyah or Qadiani to learn a little about this little community that has suffered oppression in Pakistan, Bangladesh, South Africa and, sadly it would seem, soon in Malaysia.
Whatif
January 30, 2009
To me, we should accept any religion that preaches the good traits of humanity such as love, mutual respect, equality, kindness, compassion, forgiveness, etc, etc.
We should beware of any religion that preaches hatred, discrimination, intolerance, violence and other negative traits.
As people judge a tree by its fruits, we could also somewhat judge a religion by the actions and behavior of its adherents.
So, go and observe how this group conduct themselves and you will know in your heart of hearts whether these are good people or not.
Peace.
Dante Jebat
January 30, 2009
To: Admiral Tojo
From: Dante Jebat
Subject: Please email me your email address @ Dante.Jebat@Gmail.Com. I would like to communicate with you.
Thank you Haris for the enlightenment.
“The only thing constant in life is change” Francois de la Rochefoucauld
Whatif
January 30, 2009
For those who think that there is only one rigid way of following a religion, please think again.
Christianity has so many different sects, each has her own way of worship and rituals. Yet, they exist side by side in peaceful co-existence.
Why can’t Islam do the same? You have Sunni, Shia, Sufi, Ahmadiya and other orientations. Why insist on only one and persecute the others? For how long you want to harass and punish your own people?
The good news is that there are now numerous Islamic organisations and scholars who are pushing for reformation. Sincerely pray for the day when all religions and beliefs accept one another and strive for world peace.
joenathan
January 30, 2009
Thanks mate,
sampalee
January 30, 2009
For one to even think their religion is more supreme or righteous,is evident that the person do not understand his own religion.Truth like gravity is inpersonal and will act on every being and non-being,irregardless of whether it is good or bad,weak or powerful.Truth is beyond ALL relativities and contaries.All that can be known in the past present and future are manifestation of the one ALLAH.In Allah there is NO ‘I’ and Others as the Egos dissolve[surrender/Islam] into the ONE SOURCE[from which All arises and return]
When one have the insight in the Qu’ran,our satanic mind[Intellect]will lose its hold and God’s light will shine through.Unless we see through the illusionary ego,GOD will remain just as a concept and we missed the sole intent of the Kithab.That is to know Allah beyond doubts and ONLY peace remain[In absolute non-duality,conflict of any nature is IMPOSSIBLR.
Zaib
January 30, 2009
Dear Haris
You seem to support the Sky Kingdom believers in Terengganu who have blatantly deviated from the true teachings of Islam. Yes of course, Islam respects all other religions, but bear in mind what would happen to our Muslim society when people start to create new sects based on their own fancies. Are we going to keep quiet in the name of Democracy. Get back to the basic teachings of Islam before you make any statements.
Dear Zaib,
I support the right of the Sky Kingdom folk to profess and practise their belief.
Nanda
January 30, 2009
Ahh, 2:54.
That is one long overseas trip.
malaysianfirst
January 30, 2009
To Zaib,
I can understand your passion for your own religion or to be more correct your own version of Islam be it mainstream, sidestream or margin. I sense that you are a Muslim and can believe you are a very devout one at that. Believe me I appreciate your steadfast faith.
Just to again reiterate what I said earlier. Just because more believers follow a certain sect or version of religion does not mean that they can impose their views upon the minority sect of Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism etc. They have no right to stop others from practicing their religion in peace. I underscore “in peace”.
To be more clear to you, the Ahmadiyah’s can also consider your version of Islam a deviationist teaching. So then whose perspective do we take. Do we just take the majority’s decision. In that case then the USA can always justify their reasons for supporting Israel’s attacks against the Palestinians because as everyone knows the USA is more powerful and stronger than the Palestinians. In fact I think you will agree, Israel itself is much more powerful than Palestine. So can you justify the USA and Israel killing innocent Palestinian civilians? I hope you get my drift.
So you should try to walk a mile in the Ahmadiyah believers shoes for once and not just think that yours is the only perspective of which you are entitled to but I think you will agree that you cannot have the monopoly on wisdom.
Zaib
January 30, 2009
Dear Harris,
As a Muslim, we believe that Prophet Muhammad is the last Messenger of Allah and Qur’an is the last Kitab where a complete teaching of Islam is inscribed (this also means that all other previous God sent messages are deemed not applicable anymore). Allah said “Today I have perfected your religion (i.e. Islam through His teaching in the Qur’an).
Dear brother, this is a clear statement from Allah, not from any human beings – and as a Muslim how can we argue about what He has ordained? As a Muslim, must we put Democracy above Islam? Islam itself preaches democracy, but within permitted parameter and the religion puts Allah above the rest.
If you are doubtful about my statement, please get a piece of advice from Brother Anwar Ibrahim, Tok Guru Nik Aziz, imams of any mosques in Malaysia.
Zaib
Dear Zaib,
I am indeed grateful to meet in this blog one other who holds to what God has ordained in His Holy Qur’an.
In this regard, I will ask you to check the holy scripture again to verify if God did not in fact say that the holy prophet (pbuh) was the ‘seal of the prophets and a messenger of God’.
The emphasis here being a ‘seal of the prophets’.
Salam
Zaib
January 30, 2009
Cont.
Ahmadiyah cannot simply label me as a devisionist so long as I keep my practices within the teachings of Islam as inscribed in the Qur’an. The perspective of Islam is one i.e. Submission to the Oneness of Allah as taught by the Qur’an.
As a believer, its not a matter of majority or minority when we talk about “Iman” – what matters is what’s taught in the Qur’an. The sufferings of the Palestines are partly due to the divided state of Muslim nations, especially within the region, who argue over petty reasons without considering our uniting mantras in the Qur’an.
So Harris, at the end of the day its the Qur’an, Qur’an and Qur’an is the ultimate solution to all these religious debates.
Wassalam
Zaib
Zaib
January 30, 2009
Dear Harris,
Sorry, actually part of my reply is directed to comment by Malaysianfirst. Hence, please accept my apology for adressing it directly to you.
Dear Zaib,
No worries.
Salam
Zaib
January 30, 2009
Seal of the Prophet? 🙂 Frankly speaking I dont know anything about it. All I know is the Prophet left the Qur’an, Hadith and Sunnah as guides for our journey to the next world.
Admiral Tojo
January 30, 2009
Zaib,
I live by the Quran as best as I can. How come my belief is far different from that of yours? Never mind, to you your own path to me mine. This is from Quran. So how come the Ahmadiah’s are marginalised and persecuted? It woud not be in the spirit of the message above then. Ponder and read some more, the Quran that is and hopefully one day you will rid yourself of the wickedness of Arabism.
Salaam/Shalom
Goostee
January 30, 2009
Haris,
Sorry I can’t go along with you on this count. Aqidah and Iman are not to be taken lightly based on logics as Al-Quraan is specific that Muhammad is HIS last Prophet. The Al-Ahmadiah’s belief that there was another Prophet after Muhammad is thus contrarious to Islam’s basic preaching. I’m prepared to even venture to say that to keep claiming they are Muslims while flouting Islam’s basic tenet is most objectionable and even obnoxious on their parts. Hence, JAIS’s concern in their efforts to protect Muslim interests is not unfounded. By the way, to those who object to the word “kafir”, please be advised that it means nothing more than “non-conformist” to the Islamic ways. Salam.
Shakuntala
January 31, 2009
Haris
In our country which is multi-racial you are doing a wonderful job to teach people tolerance.In fact you are tireless in your efforts, to help those in need and the down-trodden.
Why should a person point his or her finger at someone who worships the Almighty the way he or she wants to….stay clear critics..it is between the believer and his God.
Let me share this, I spoke to Ainul whose telephone number Haris has given us, to contact, on behalf of Almaddiyah.I was curious to talk to him, He is such a gentleman and his very broadmindedness, has given me the incentive to attend the Baitusalaam. I want to get to know a group of people, peaceful Malaysians, who are merely living life their own way without trying to intimidate other people through the use of a very universal practice…religion. Why isn’t anyone disputing about the great Sun. After all we are all living under just one Light.We are sharing the Sun. So please allow the Almaddiyah to live in peace and carry on.Share what they have to say. Those who are doubtful, should follow Haris’s advice to go and attend the get together …being there willhelp the person to make up his or her own mind when it comes to God Almighty Who is Universal. I am going to be there.
Shakuntala,
God bless
Ibnu Khuzaimah
January 31, 2009
My say is :
Buddhism was brought by Gautama. Can any other claim that there will be another Gautama coz there is only one Gautama in relation to Buddhism.
Can any muslim say he is still a muslim when he says.. there is another prophet when Prophet Muhammad PBUH is the last Messenger.
Even talibans will say no to Ahmadiya.
Grownup and Living in Jeram where Ahmadiya was first founded in Selangor, I witnessed that they practised a totally different kind of religion but it’s an Islam look alike.
I still remember one of my kampong folk Wak Topi Kuning is one of the follower.
They have their own place of worship when muslims all over the world – sunni, hanafi, hambali or wahabi can pray together in the same mosque just like a malay muslim pray at masjid keling or masjid pakistan but this so called Ahmadiya/Kadiani will not. Coz they believe that their prophet is from India – Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
Why didn’t the Muslim religous authority didnot demolish this group? Oh.. some Tan Sris, Datuks, Big time police, professors are followers.
This Ahmadiya reminds me of freemasonry…
It also reminds me of Kemalis in Turkey.
Hope that some Islamists will be there to explore the Ahmadiya and clear the confusing air.
JuandaMY
January 31, 2009
I wish all the kind efforts make by you and others will be bless by Allah swt the AlMighty. May we come with clean heart and pure mind. Get the first hand to ask in general or detail with regard to Ahmadiyya Movement. May all the good heart will be shower with His Blessings. May peace for all “LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE”.
shahrizalisme
January 31, 2009
Dear Haris and all,
I think the issues of Ahmadiyah group have been discussed more openly in Indonesia than our country. To those who may want to study this issue further, I suggest you go and watch Debat TV One Insist Vs Ahmadiyah on you tube. The Indonesian scholars have argued this issue very deeply in this Debat. Watch and think for yourself! Enjoy!
Eric
January 31, 2009
@Zaib, Ibnu Khuzaimah and others
I believe Haris is not saying who’s the better Islam or anything of the sort. We’ll just go to the Majlis Mesra Rakyat to emphasise article 11 of the constitution about freedom of religion. So long as Ahmadiyah is not threatening public safety, there is no reason they should be threatened by any Malaysian authority. The Majlis Mesra Rakyat just says that, it does not assert whether their version of Islam is better or wrong.
Haris, see you at 3.30 tomorrow.
PS: Please remember, Malaysia’s Sunni Islam is considered deviant in Iran for instance.
nowhere man
January 31, 2009
al tojo wrote :
Zaib,
I live by the Quran as best as I can. How come my belief is far different from that of yours?u dont fast, u dont do solat, u dont believe in doing haj and ect… u call that living by the quran?
nowhere man
January 31, 2009
haris wrote:Dear Zaib,
I support the right of the Sky Kingdom folk to profess and practise their belief. – even if u know that what they believe in is totally deviant!
nowhere man,
You mean ‘believe’ they are deviant? You can’t possibly claim to ‘know’ the absolute truth, can you?
They probably believe you and I have deviated from the truth.
How?
My suggestion?
Leave it to the Boss to decide who is right and who is wrong.
Until then, we live in peace and with mutual respect.
Zaib
January 31, 2009
Dear pals,
I wanna say that any topics related to Islam, especially those pertaining to ‘Aqidah’ should be left for discussion among Muslims alone without inteference or opinions from other believers. Muslims in Malaysia have never issued any “Fatwa’ or espouse any thoughts on Christians, Hindus or Buddists and non Muslims cannot preach their religions to any Muslims. This is what freedom of religion means in our Constitution.
I do not wanna sound rude, but non-Muslims (if there are any here) should take care of their religions and let the Muslims manage this topic among themselves. We have sufficient number of Islamic theologians who can lend their opinions. My conclusion is, any teachings that contradict with that inscribed in the Qur’an, Hadith or Sunnah are WRONG and therefore must be subjected to scrutiny by the Religious Authorities.
Wassalam
Zaib
Zaib,
Sorry, but we differ on this one.
I don’t think anyone should be barred from discussing any aspect of Islam, or any other religion or topic, for that matter.
Set out perimeters for a sensitivised discussion, yes, but to impose a total bar?
Sorry, mate, not with you on this.
Zaib
January 31, 2009
Cont’
I am not saying that Ahmadiyah is wrong either. The authority could have highlighted some critical issues doubtful to them. Invite these authorities and debate with them with concrete points extracted from the Qur’an, Hadith and Sunnah and no other sources.
Dear Muslim brothers, not complying to the teachings in the Qur’an, Hadith and Sunnah is already dividing us…imagine what would happen if we refer from other sources….
Think about it!
Zaib
nowhere man
January 31, 2009
zaib wrote:I am not saying that Ahmadiyah is wrong either. – is it not wrong when mirza ghulam ahmad is said to be a nabi?
nowhere man
January 31, 2009
these are the words of one of ayah pin followers:- “jadi ayah pin ini adalah tuhan bagi saya”, and i know this guy as a muslim, tell me haris if it is not deviant?
nowhere man,
I don’t understand.
You say he claims that ayah pin is his god, and yet you say he is a Muslim.
You say he is Muslim or he claims to be Muslim?
And even if he does claim to be Muslim, does not his professing ayah pin as god suggest otherwise?
So if he is not Muslim, where is the foundation to label him deviant?
Unless the whole objective is to keep him within jurisdiction?
ttc
February 1, 2009
Haris, howdee 🙂
You know that beautiful Ahmadiyah Sky Kingdom yellow umbrella and pretty BIG teapot you posted here some time ago now, the ones which you said 😦 some nasty yuk-yuk yukky self-appointed pretend pseudo-divine agents destroyed wantonly, well just wondering now if the nice Ahmadiyah people will be bringing one of those BIG teapots along to the fellowship tomorrow for serving nice cups of tea from?
And you know what? In the annual year-end awards given out here gratuitously recently to all sorts of evaluated entities from all over the place, the most prized 2008 award for the bestest went to the now awake, ass-kicking Rakyat and the worstest 2008 award was dished out to, very surprisingly, not as you would imagine to 😦 public liability #1 our man loony SHA, who was unsurprisingly, up until then streaks and miles ahead of all others, but who got pipped at that final worst post as it were by those 😦 very nasty yuk-yuk yukkies who bullied the nice Ahmadiyahs and reduced their beautiful Sky Kingdom and their harmless shade-giving umbrella and colourful teapot to an ugly rubble (as shown in your post here) with the 😦 yuk-yuk yukkies’ nasty use of unmerciful and so not good Islamic principles which everyone here quickly thought of as originating from their very own hypocritically deviant self-preserving bad hearts and ungodly and unreligious pesky politically-streaked minds.
Hmm. How nasty is that, mutter many here, when it comes to balancing one’s final books? Well, the 🙂 good Learning Book on final accountability here says that anyone who says they follow the good Islamic way but then peskily stands there hypocritically in an unIslamic way to hinder or stop anyone else from seeking God in their own personally agreed bilateral ways, will be justly judged fairly by God when the time comes for their final accounting and balancing of books and treated very fairly with the justly deserved desserts of their own chosen way of accountability, 😀 Islamic hudud.
Suppose there will be lots of 🙂 tasty foodies and kuih muih there too huh, Haris with that teapot-full of tea to enjoy tomorrow. 😐 Hmm.
WE SAY YEAH! & NO TO ISA! 🙂 AND HARIS FOR AG & RPK FOR IGP! GO FOR DSAI FOR PM & LKS FOR DPM & KIND WAN AZIZAH FOR HOME MINISTER.
2009 Resolution: Seek out all garbage and recycle or dispose post haste for a healthier life and planet!
Admiral Tojo
February 1, 2009
nowhere man Says:
January 31, 2009 at 7:11 pm
al tojo wrote :
Zaib,
>>>I live by the Quran as best as I can. How come my belief is far different from that of yours?u dont fast, u dont do solat, u dont believe in doing haj and ect… u call that living by the quran?
My answer,
yes in the definite. No solat, no fasting and no visiting the Arab temple as per QURAN. You still want to argue??? Nowhereman?
Read and be free from Arab slavery, the Quran that is.
Salaam
vile-n-frenzy
February 1, 2009
zaib is wrong in whatever he says. sorry to say this. i think you are only a cultural person from what i understand from your postings. keep your adat to yourself.
i have been a muslim convert for many years now. and guess what? do you think i practice the religion?
what makes me not practice the religion? and why?
during the times of the prophet, there were no such thing called ‘mazhabs’. Mazhab’s according to my understanding unlike you being a big-practising muslim is known as islamic jurisprudence or islamic school of law, it differs from the inn of courts. in other words, fiqh. what is fiqh or mazhab?
it consist of mazhabs such as shafii, hanafi, hambali and maliki. not to forget the addition such as wahhabi, ahmadiyya, shia and so forth.
all of these jurisprudence were formed by muslim scholars and intellectuals after the death (wafat) of the prophet pbuh. guess what? there was an absent gap of nearly or more than 200 years.
in malaysia, there is a singular jurisprudence that we follow which is shafii.
but what i am totally amazed here is why is it that what is taught in the koran, we are never to follow at all? questioning these people who are within the scope of ahmadiyya or believers of ahmadiyya is totally wrong. i am not buying what you have said zaib. so thats too bad.
do you know i have tried very hard to follow the life of a normal muslim? what is irritating my senses about islam these days is the culture that seeps through religion.
jari berinai masa berkahwin, mandi bunga 7 jenis and so what not, do you call this islam? sounds more like hinduism to me. i find that islam here is totally bashed up. sorry to say this. it sounds more like hindu-islam buddy kinda thingy.
my experience as a convert is rather a murky and devastating one. i am not wronging islam in any context but it is the people making laws here that creates confusion of what islam is all about. i feel very sorry for these people, let alone people of the book or what we call them muslims.
i have seen people talking about politics in suraus when its supposed to be a place of worship. i have seen most of the incest cases are done by the muslims, let me get my facts straight non practising malay muslims. and this is very shameful indeed.
so, please do not think you are pious in every comments you make. rambut sama hitam, hati lain. i am truly sorry that you do not even know the light of the koran, dont come here and start preaching the gospel, as i feel that you should see your inner-self and concentrate on how to mend yourself first before you can start commenting on others. if you feel that my statement here is life-threatening at your end, i feel very sorry for you.
islam doesnt force. islam doesnt place pressure and also islam is a true religion of peace.
cheers to those who have found the truth and cheers to those whom are seeking the truth.
nowhere man
February 1, 2009
haris wrote:You say he claims that ayah pin is his god, and yet you say he is a Muslim. – this guy is my friend, before he went to ayah pin(to seek ways to rid him off his addiction), i know that he is a muslim
So if he is not Muslim, where is the foundation to label him deviant? – professing mere mortals to be god is not deviant ? did he say he is not a muslim? i can bet u that his ic states that he is a muslim. i know what he uttered in the youtube video is tantamount to syirik, but i dont have the authority to label him murtad(and i dont want to), he has to be tried under syariah law first, and to my understanding until the outcome of a trial under syariah law, he is considered a muslim. so when a muslim say like what he did, does it not make him deviant(sky kingdom itself is deviant)
nowhere man
February 1, 2009
ad tojo, where is allah?
vile-n-frenzy
February 1, 2009
Hassan Ali as in the Selangor Exco Pas fella?
Oh! This is news to me.
Now i come out in the open to expose this.
I engaged Hassan’s brother, Baharuddin Ali as my solicitor for my syariah divorce matter.
I have communicated with him many times and not a single bit of syariah legal advise was given to me by him as my instructing solicitor, hence, the fees he seeks most of the time. i am not happy with his services rendered. he has a very rude LA (Legal Assistant).
there was once that i communicated with him via sms, informing me that i do not require anymore of his services and therefore i wasnt happy with him. i told him to bill me and he didnt reply.
GUESS WHAT THAT MAN DID TO ME?
The learned tabligh solicitor forwarded my message to him via sms to my ex wife.
The BIG QUESTION IS-IS MY COMMUNICATION WITH MY ENGAGED SOLICITOR PRIVILEGED?
That so called spinner sold me off and that since then, a pious man like him have given me an impression that islam sells people off.
take this firm down. its called PERUNDING ALAM BAHAGIA. sell this cow off. he is such an arrogant lawyer of his decree.
i have nothing to do with him and that we do not need a munafiq to tell us what to do.
this message is intended to be personal against hassan’s brother and not him. period.
Zaib
February 1, 2009
Nowhere man I agree with you … nobody may claim that he is a prophet akter Muhammad. The man who does is a kafir , I agree with you.
Grand Marquis
February 2, 2009
I see many people do not understand the basic principle of religion, especially Islam. Islam (as well as many other religions) is not based on individual whims and fancies. It is a religion guided by principles, doctrines and references.
A person is call Christian not just because he believes in Jesus Christ, but he has to believe in Jesus Christ as what in Christianity doctrines! And this doctrine comes from Christian scriptures!
For a person to be called Muslim, he has to believe and follow the doctrines of Islam and these doctrines are the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad.
If a person claimed that he is a Muslim, but follows a version of Islam other than what has been outlined in the doctrine, he is said to be deviated Muslim.
If a person claimed that he believed in Jesus Christ, but his version of Jesus Christ is that he is an alien came from outer space. So do you think this person is still call a christian?
So can you call these Ahmadiahs Muslim when they believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the prophet after prophet Muhammad S.A.W?
Such a simple issue and yet I see so many people can’t understand and yet so many are bold enough to comment.
Jack Sparrow
February 2, 2009
The problem with Ahmadiyya is the consider themselves as a muslim. And I don’t know whether it is good and wrong.
Admiral Tojo
February 2, 2009
nowhere man Says:
February 1, 2009 at 2:58 pm
ad tojo, where is allah?
Nowhere man,
“I am closer to you than your jugular vein…., Where ever you look, I am in front of you….., talk to me and I will hear you…” (Quran). Omnipresent.
Now do you know where Allah is? Definitely not where you think.
Salaam
Masayu Fitriyanti
February 2, 2009
Zaib Says:
February 1, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Nowhere man I agree with you … nobody may claim that he is a prophet akter Muhammad. The man who does is a kafir , I agree with you.
—
Hi Zaib,
Majority Moslems people all over the world (including you, I’m surely supposed) is waiting for the second coming of Prophet Isa (Jesus) as.
You know what, The Secong Coming Prophet Isa (Jesus) as will be claiming that he is a Prophet Isa (Jesus) who’s coming after Muhammad saw.
I bet you will also call him a big liar and kafir right ???
Okay, I’ve noticed enough.
Wassalam 🙂
nowhere man
February 2, 2009
ad tojo, you mean allah is everywhere?
nowhere man
February 2, 2009
ad tojo, are u a muslim?
Grand Marquis
February 2, 2009
If all the chinese and indian in Malaysia call themselves bumiputra, does that mean they are bumiputra (by the definition of Malaysia)? So back to the basic. Refer to the doctrine that defines bumiputra.
Grand Marquis,
Is there a definition for bumiputra in the Qur’an? The hadith?
Is there any specific precept in Islam on the matter of premising rights and privileges based on ethnicity?
iFadzli
February 2, 2009
1. Zaib Said:
…….. Allah said “Today I have perfected your religion (i.e. Islam through His teaching in the Qur’an).
Dear brother, this is a clear statement from Allah, not from any human beings – and as a Muslim how can we argue about what He has ordained? As a Muslim, must we put Democracy above Islam? Islam itself preaches democracy, but within permitted parameter and the religion puts Allah above the rest.
If you are doubtful about my statement, please get a piece of advice from Brother Anwar Ibrahim, Tok Guru Nik Aziz, imams of any mosques in Malaysia.
Reply from Haris to Dear Zaib,
.…. I am indeed grateful to meet in this blog one other who holds to what God has ordained in His Holy Qur’an.
In this regard, I will ask you to check the holy scripture again to verify if God did not in fact say that the holy prophet (pbuh) was the ’seal of the prophets and a messenger of God’.
The emphasis here being a ’seal of the prophets’.
1. Goostee Said:
Haris,
Sorry I can’t go along with you on this count. Aqidah and Iman are not to be taken lightly based on logics as Al-Quraan is specific that Muhammad is HIS last Prophet. The Al-Ahmadiah’s belief that there was another Prophet after Muhammad is thus contrarious to Islam’s basic preaching. I’m prepared to even venture to say that to keep claiming they are Muslims while flouting Islam’s basic tenet is most objectionable and even obnoxious on their parts. Hence, JAIS’s concern in their efforts to protect Muslim interests is not unfounded. By the way, to those who object to the word “kafir”, please be advised that it means nothing more than “non-conformist” to the Islamic ways
Also more on the comments given stated a big NO on Ahmadiyah being literally Islam somehow or another.
My comments and opinions on the above:
Dear Bro Haris,
Comment from Bro Zaib merits as Allah SWT did perfected Islam as the religion thru Mohammad (pbuh)and righfully too on your part the He (pbuh) was the ’seal of the prophets and a messenger of God’. However does that mean that Allah SWT righfully had sealed all avenues for human being to attain prophethood, siddiq, soleh etc, as the bestowment of such decree or degree ONLY Allah SWT knows as He is the gracious and merciful.
And as Goostee said Mohammad (pbuh) is the last of Prophethood and no other Prophet after Him. I guess Goostee should read more of the Al-Quran and Hadits (not easy to read in between the lines thus the confussion and difference in understandingand belief) as Allah also stated a lot on this Advent coming of Jesus so was Mohammad (pbuh) even Siti Aisyah (ra) and many others. IS Goostee also belongs and/or to the belief the Imam as either Shafii, Hanafi, Hambali, Maliki, well if the answer is YES. Then, my advise to Goostee, to repent or stop spreading liars as the very same Imam that he belief accept the Advent coming of Jesus (Isa al-Masih and Mahdi). Are you trying to tell that the Imams are a bunch of disbelievers too. Please read their books. Our Ulama themselves do not read their understanding on Islam and our Ulama made a mockery of Islam now. There is another saying from Mohammad (pbuh) on Ulama in short sound something like this “A day will come to mankind where Islam is merely left in its name and Al-Quran merely in its writing. Masjid is beutifully constructed but empty from His guidance. The Ulama will become the worst/disgusted human being that ever existed in the world” (Baihaqi). Now, are we to deny what the Prophet (pbuh) had stated?
On the word “kafir” it is not merely just means nothing more than “non-conformist”, it means that “you are NOT Islam/Muslim”. A bit funny though even Phophet Mohammad (pbuh) does not any absolute authority (bestowed by Allah SWT) in saying to another as “kafir” refraining his subject from uttering such word (especially to those who says the 2 kalimah Syahadah) as such authority only in the hand of Allah Al-Mighty and NOT TO ANY HUMAN BEING. Plese refer to the Holy Badar War where the Prophet (pbuh) companion (sahabat) killed an enemy even after the enemy utter the 2 Kalimah Syahadah, look what the Prophet said to his companion “Who to decide a person’s acceptability of Islam you or Allah SWT”. The worst scenario had been indicted by our so called Ulama by declaring “kafir” when the Ulamas themselves don’t even know their own standing as Islam i.e. whether their Islam had been accepted by Allah SWT or not. Such a ridiculous we live in, is not it.
Anyway thanks again to Haris on his brave work, may Allah SWT bless you and your work. Amin.
KaKiaYam
February 2, 2009
Grand Marquis -I see many people do not understand the basic principle of religion, especially Islam.
okay,…so that means you do understand the principle of religion….especially Islam, that’s good. let see what that understanding represents….
Grand Marquis – Islam (as well as many other religions) is not based on individual whims and fancies. It is a religion guided by principles, doctrines and references.
I agree and disagree with you on this one. It is guided by what is written in the respective Holy book, but it is interpreted according to the reader whims and fancies…:P
Tell me of any religion where there are no differing interpretations of it’s references. The muslim always talk about the finality of the quran, but a deeper study of the book or any other holy book for that matter shows so much contradiction and confusing statements which are open to interpretations. Of course this happens in the Bible too, but i am glad we can laugh and dialog about it among ourselves. sigh, if only the typical muslims could be less dogmatic…
Grand Marquis – A person is call Christian not just because he believes in Jesus Christ, but he has to believe in Jesus Christ as what in Christianity doctrines!
As a christian, I disagree with what you said. What doctrines that you were refering to? What if I agree to part of the Bible and disagree half of it? Does that still makes me a Christian?
Grand Marquis – And this doctrine comes from Christian scriptures!
err….well, how? surely someone interpret that?
Grand Marquis – For a person to be called Muslim, he has to believe and follow the doctrines of Islam and these doctrines are the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad.
So if I see you doing something un-muslim, could I label you as non-muslim then? why is muslim so much into this labeling business?
Grand Marquis – If a person claimed that he is a Muslim, but follows a version of Islam other than what has been outlined in the doctrine, he is said to be deviated Muslim.
So does a bad muslim be considered a deviated muslim? Yes? No?
Grand Marquis – If a person claimed that he believed in Jesus Christ, but his version of Jesus Christ is that he is an alien came from outer space. So do you think this person is still call a christian?
If he/she wants to be considered that way, that’s his freedom, isn’t it?
Grand Marquis – So can you call these Ahmadiahs Muslim when they believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the prophet after prophet Muhammad S.A.W?
well, maybe not muslims. but Ahmadiahs Muslim lor….keke
Ahmadiahs Muslim – Such a simple issue and yet I see so many people can’t understand and yet so many are bold enough to comment.
sigh…actually i am very scared to comment one, just that if a muslim tulen+jati+ori like you also dare to comment, what’s more a lousy christian like me?…..hehe….
so from all the purported understanding and wisdom that you have gained from years of being a muslim…. may I humbly present upon you the gold medal of Self righteousness…
Sometimes, people are confused. Instead of being happy and grateful of knowing God and gaining peace,…. they become proud of being part of the organised religion and that of keeping it’s doctrines….
KaKiaYam
nstman
February 2, 2009
Harris, if only we had more people like you, not only in Malaysia, but the world, the world would have been a happier place. Alas, it is not meant to be. In the meantime, let’s drink to console ourselves. Cheers from Tanjong Rambutan Pub, where heer is cheaper than Nationa; Press Club.
Zaib
February 2, 2009
KaKiaYam,
I think when it comes to an issue of Muslim interest, its not wise for you to barge in with an ignorant (jahil) an argument, what more when you yourself have declared that you are a lousy christian. We are not arguing anything about christian here. So you should know what best to do right?
Malaysianfirst
February 2, 2009
Hi Haris,
After the meeting with the Ahmadiyah Muslims frankly I am beginning to understand their predicament.
They said, why is it that all the other Muslim sects like Sunni, Shia, Wahabi etc can accept each other as Muslims but when it comes to Ahmadiyah they are called deviants. In fact the other sects of Sunni, Shia etc have major fundamental differences with each other and in some regions actually go to holy war against each other. But when it comes to Ahmadiyahs, the other sects all gang up together and say they are deviants.
Its like the UMNO,MCA,MIC which are distinct separate racist parties who suddenly gang up as BN and attack the (legally at least) multiracial parties like DAP, PKR and say that BN is more multiracial than Pakatan. Unbelievable man.
And Zaid, you can’t start a definition of anything whether it be Muslim or Non-Muslim or anything by setting your own perimeters first and then ask another (whom you already concluded as deviationist) to show how he is not a deviationist based on your own religions/sectorial perspectives and perimeters.
Speaking to some of the Ahmadiyah believers, they also believe in the Quran but they hold the stand that they interpret certain verses differently from the mainstream sects. Just like the Sunni and Shia are also different in some fundamental areas.They do not force the other sects to follow them so the other sects should also not insist that they follow their so called true Muslim denomination.
If there truly is no compulsion in religion then we should let the Ahmadiyahs practice their faith peacefully and so should we allow all others their faith.
Love for all, hatred for none!
KaKiaYam
February 3, 2009
sigh….people like Fadzli are the one that makes visiting blog worthwhile. instead of superficial verbal attacks (which i am shamelessly part of), he goes into the actual facts and provide a valid but different view of the same issue…
I have some questions in my mind now –
1. Can something that is made by God to be perfect, becomes imperfect as time passed?
2. Can God change His/Her mind? If no, why Not? Isn’t God, The GOD? If he can justified that, why Not? Heck, he don’t even have to justify His actions with us.
3. Does God has the right to change His mind?
4. Are we personalising God too much? to the extend that we assume God to thinks like us, act like us, bounded by limitation like us?
hehe, hey this is a good enough topic of discussion….i am getting excited…
KaKiaYam
nowhere man
February 3, 2009
Malaysianfirst Says:But when it comes to Ahmadiyahs, the other sects all gang up together and say they are deviants. – believing mirza ghulam ahmad as a nabi is not deviant?are u a muslim?
Admiral Tojo
February 3, 2009
nowhere man Says:
February 2, 2009 at 2:38 pm
ad tojo, are u a muslim?
Yes, Nowhere man, I am very much a Muslim that follows the DEEN. Salaam- Peace, Muslim -those who are at peace. Now because I follow the Quran strictly, I do not have a religion. Religion is very different from DEEN. In Quran religion is ‘Syiaan, Syiatihi and its derivatives.
So what you call Islam is NOT Islam as per Quran. It is what I call The Arab Religion. That explains why the followers of tha Arab Religion will never be at peace, as proven all over the World.
For you to find out more, do read the Quran but without the Arab corruptions. Then all will be clear.
Salaam, Peace
KaKiaYam
February 3, 2009
Zaib Says: ” I think when it comes to an issue of Muslim interest, its not wise for you to barge in with an ignorant (jahil) an argument, what more when you yourself have declared that you are a lousy christian. We are not arguing anything about christian here. So you should know what best to do right…”
Dear Zaib, please check my comments at Tulang Besi. I hate to retype everything here again.
http://www.malaysiawaves.com/2008/06/haris-ibrahim-probably-will-have-to.html
Either you argue with me wisely or otherwise, you will be the one who is jahil.
Why?
Simple, you are a Muslim, and you are suppose to show the way, and light up whatever confusion and misunderstanding there is about your religion.
You claim and speak as if you know much about your own religion, but yet i see nothing in your response to my questions. You are still very much in defensive mode and you assume me to be the trouble maker, making things difficult for half baked muslims like you.
The truth is, all I seek is discussion on the issue. I don’t ask question for the sake of asking.
sigh…
KaKiaYam
Nanda
February 3, 2009
nowhere man Says:
February 3, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Malaysianfirst Says:But when it comes to Ahmadiyahs, the other sects all gang up together and say they are deviants. – believing mirza ghulam ahmad as a nabi is not deviant?are u a muslim?
Nanda says:
nowhere man, kindly confirm the facts. Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement states that they believe in the finality of Muhammad in the line of prophets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya:
Question: Based on your definition, are they deviant?
Granted, the Jamaat in Malaysia may not subscribe to that or they may, but how could one find out if one is not prepared to engage in a discourse?
My take, this judgement is God’s prerogative.
God shall tell us on matters that we differ.
nowhere man Says:
February 2, 2009 at 2:36 pm
ad tojo, you mean allah is everywhere?
Nanda says:
nowhere man, the admiral already qouted his source, the Quran.
nowhere man
February 3, 2009
how can u say u are following the deen, when u negate solat, saum, haj & ect.
nowhere man
February 3, 2009
Nanda says:
nowhere man, the admiral already qouted his source, the Quran. – he did not put which surah & ayat, anyway it did not answer my question.
vile-n-frenzy
February 4, 2009
zaib,
salam-mualaykum.
i hope that you stop penalizing anyone in here and starting to condemn any other religion or muslims themselves would show me that you are either BONGKAK, RIAK OR TAKBUR!
Rasulullah was a very humble man himself and His humility has attracted millions of muslims around the world these days. Where on earth did you come to a conclusion that you are above all?
Are you saying you are next to God?
Are you also saying that just because you are born a Muslim, you are guaranteed going to heaven?
Are you also saying Islam teaches you to be ARROGANT?
Let me say this to you. Are you saying that you are going to heaven and people like me will go to hell indirectly? Read carefully, INDIRECTLY!
too bad zaib. you wanna get me, here is my email address: –
verytate@yahoo.com
if you think you are so aligned and i am being maligned here, guide me. i would very much want you to proffer your thoughts and wisdom to me. i dont need someone to only follow the book but strictly telling me what islam is all about deeply.
Till current and till present, i am still searching for the real truth, not some funny adats here and there that compliments Islam here. I am sorry. I would prefer to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH) and not something that would make me inai (dye) my palm or fingers.
Good night!
Admiral Tojo
February 4, 2009
nowhere man Says:
February 3, 2009 at 4:49 pm
how can u say u are following the deen, when u negate solat, saum, haj & ect.
Simple, these are not part of the deen and are NOT in Quran.
‘Wa aqeemu Solaa Wa atuzakka = and uphold your comittments and keep it pure’. Saum – abstain (noy fast) and haj- challenge (not pilgrimage). Do read the Quran nowhereman and do not be like most, reciting blindly like a parrot. Hope it answers your question.
No, DEEN is not the Arab Religion.
Salaam
Admiral Tojo
February 4, 2009
correction, saum – abstain (Not fast)
Malaysianfirst
February 4, 2009
nowhere man Says:
“But when it comes to Ahmadiyahs, the other sects all gang up together and say they are deviants…..believing mirza ghulam ahmad as a nabi is not deviant?are u a muslim?”
Malaysianfirst’s response:
Sunni’s believe that Jesus will come back again to conquer and rule the world for the Muslims. If Jesus comes back again after Prophet pbuh, then would it not contradict the finality of the Prophet pbuh as the last Prophet sent by Allah to reveal the all complete Quran? Jesus would then be the last prophet would he not?
Shia muslims do not believe in Jesus’s return. They believe that the Al Mahdi is already here and is a hidden iman and is one of their mujtahids. This is a fundamental difference in believe between Sunni and Shia Muslims.
So why don’t the Sunni and Shia accuse each other as deviants since you say Ahmadiyyah’s “believing mirza ghulam ahmad as a nabi” means they are deviants. Why gang up and only accuse the Ahmadiyyah as deviants?
I think in the end we should let each of the sects practice their religion in peace (underscore “in peace”)and stop calling each other deviants and what not and use all manner of tricks to control their freedom to exercise their faith.
Love for All, Hatred for None!
nowhere man
February 4, 2009
Malaysianfirst Says: Sunni’s believe that Jesus will come back again to conquer and rule the world for the Muslims. If Jesus comes back again after Prophet pbuh, then would it not contradict the finality of the Prophet pbuh as the last Prophet sent by Allah to reveal the all complete Quran? – did it mention anywhere that he will come as a prophet bringing new syariat other than islam?how could he be the last prophet, when he became prophet before muhammad saw?
Why gang up and only accuse the Ahmadiyyah as deviants?- as i have asked earlier:- believing mirza ghulam ahmad as a nabi is not deviant?
nowhere man
February 4, 2009
Do read the Quran nowhereman and do not be like most, reciting blindly like a parrot. Hope it answers your question. – no, it just show me what a liar u are and you are translating blindly whithout knowledge.
nowhere man
February 4, 2009
ad tojo, i guess next u will say that liquor and pigs is not haram for cosumption by muslims
nowhere man
February 4, 2009
Nanda says:
nowhere man, kindly confirm the facts. Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement states that they believe in the finality of Muhammad in the line of prophets. – then why are they still referring themselves as ahmadiyyas’?
Admiral Tojo
February 4, 2009
nowhere man Says:
February 4, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Do read the Quran nowhereman and do not be like most, reciting blindly like a parrot. Hope it answers your question. – no, it just show me what a liar u are and you are translating blindly whithout knowledge.
As far as I am concerned my DEEN and advises from the Quran suffices without the Arabism. So, to you your way and to me mine nowhereman. However as soon as you try and force your disbelieve on me, I will shove it up your you know where. Now do you understand me boy? For easy reference go to aididsafar.com.
Love for ALL, hatred for none. I like it and oh how I wish those Arab wannabes can finally understand this.
Salaam
nowhere man
February 5, 2009
ad tojo wrote: However as soon as you try and force your disbelieve on me, – looks to me like u are the one who is trying to force your disbelive unto the believers, trying your very best to project yourself as a knowledgable person on islam but instead it just show how screwed up and twisted your take is on islam.
As far as I am concerned my DEEN and advises from the Quran suffices without the Arabism : ya right, a deen whithout fundamentals!it just shows here that u are nothing but just full of hatred for anything that is arabic! whatever did the arabs do to u?and next your twisted translation version of the quran will say that sajada and masjid have the same meaning!what a great liar u are!
Admiral Tojo
February 5, 2009
Nowhereman,
if you read the Quran, the Arabs have been condemned as in 9:97. In fact you read 9:94-100 where they have been declared munafeequns (hypocrites) and greatest disbelievers. In 25:30, in futurespeak, when the Messenger is confronted by GOD, he will say that his Qaum, his people -the Arabs have put this Quran at their backside. I did not say it, but the Quran says it. So, I just follow the Quran.
You can call me what you want but I will just follow the DEEN and stop idolising race, prophets and stones and associate them alongside GOD, like the Arabs do. There are many like me in the World. You have to live with it and accept it. As they say,Love ALL hatred for none.
Salaam, Shalom, Peace
nowhere man
February 5, 2009
ad tojo wrote:I did not say it, but the Quran says it. So, I just follow the Quran.- but you are translating and exegesising according to your twisted mind. and where in the quran did allah condemn all arabs?
Admiral Tojo
February 6, 2009
Nowhereman,
You have eyes that look but cannot see. The verses references are posted above. Can you not see it. Just chew on these verses as there are plenty more.
Peace
Admiral Tojo
February 6, 2009
Nowherman,
you say my mind is twisted? I am not the one who says that hate those who do not belief as you do. I am not the one who says my GOD needs defending. I am not the one who wants to KILL those who do not believe as I do. Love All hate none. Now who is twisted here? Look in the mirror and what do you see?
Peace
vile-n-frenzy
February 6, 2009
why that zaib fler so quiet? cannot reply is it?
nowhere man
February 6, 2009
ad tojo wrote:
Nowherman,
you say my mind is twisted? I am not the one who says that hate those who do not belief as you do. I am not the one who says my GOD needs defending. I am not the one who wants to KILL those who do not believe as I do.- you lied when you mention there is no command in the quran to do solat, saum ect. you lied when you say that allah condemn ALL arab. now u are lying by saying things that i have never said! and that is why i am saying u are not only twisted but also a great liar!u wrote hate none but how come u are hating the arabs? are u writing under influence(not just by aididsafar, i guess)?
—You have eyes that look but cannot see. i can see alright, i see your tounge is forked! i see u are trying to bring men fom light to darkness!
Admiral Tojo
February 7, 2009
Nowhereman,
You have not proven anything but your rants. I do not hate the Arabs, I just do not want to be like them. The Malays however, through long term ignorance has put the Arabs as their role model despite the advises in Quran. Simple is it not nowhereman. No wonder you are still no where.
Salam/Shalom/Peace
nowhere man
February 7, 2009
ad tojo wrote:Nowhereman,
You have not proven anything but your rants. – i dont have to prove anything, as u are doing it yourself by saying that there is no command to do solat, saum, haj in the quran, u are lying! by saying that allah condemn all arabs in the quran, u are lying!
risk_taker
February 8, 2009
Hi everybody,
First of all i wish to expand my gratitude to Bro Haris, YOU ARE JUST AWESOME bro!!!you are really out of the box minded person.Respect you…I just hope that everybody will not in a narrow mind state if to speak about ISLAM.
Regarding all of the raised matter against this Ahmadiyya and for Islam itself which has been discussed with tense sometimes, i have come out with a few simple conclusions:.
-Firstly, Bro Zaib is taking this matter with a knowledge of Islam that has a limit to him but for the Moslem Ahmadiyya, Islam is a knowledge from Allah which has no boundaries… This will really give a big different between them. Zaib is understand and living in a very limited teachings of Islam which is he and all other typical Malay Moslem(just a descendant Moslem) have to give a full stop when touchings about prophet and so many other complex things in Quran. They have been taught to stop thinking deep about Allah or else you will lost your mind and become crazy. But anyhow for those people who truly are seeking the truth of Islam must willing to learn and understand others mazhab and teachings of Islam and not just stick to one and come out with the judgment.
– Secondly, meanings or tafsir of Al-Quran that both of them understand maybe different as if not, they might be walk in the same line. Maybe in Bro Zaib understands is, if i ask him the story about Moses and his stick in Quran, probably he does believe that when Moses touch his stick on the ground the sea is giving a way to him and his followers to pass over from the soldiers of Pharaoh. But has Bro Zaib ever think that Moses and his followers are succeed to across because of knowledge in science of natural phenomenon which Allah gave to Moses where nobody else ever known about it at that time. There are many other meanings in Al-Quran that is should be interpreted in a very beautiful way rather than thinking of in a magical and mystical ways of happenings. For me Islam is not separated from science and very logical because sometimes when scientist do a research about somethings, at the end they will find it in Al-Quran which has been here fore 1400 over years ago.
Actually i am just an audience who is pulled over to give a comment by a curious mind and heart.
risk_taker
February 8, 2009
it was just complex…only complex mind can understand
risktaker
February 8, 2009
hmmm
malaysianfirst
February 8, 2009
Nowhereman says: “…did it mention anywhere that he will come as a prophet bringing new syariat other than islam?how could he be the last prophet, when he became prophet before muhammad saw?
Malaysianfirst response: If Jesus is a prophet before Muhammad saw, then he would not have known or understood the revelation of Islam that was sent for the first time through Muhammad saw right. The Quran’s wonderful and final revelation would be unknown to Jesus. So if he were to come after Muhammad saw what shariat will be bring to the Muslims? Remember, he was never exposed to Islam and the revelation of the Quran which came later. If you then say he is going to fulfil the Quran and Islam, how could he since he came before Muhammad saw and in fact Jesus was basically exposed to Judaism and the Jews. So how does he get the revelation. Nothing in the Quran says how Jesus from a Jewish based religion can suddenly be so Muslim when the Quran was only revealed a long time later. Are you telling me Allah revealed the Quran to Muhammad saw and then also sent a copy to Jesus in heaven? If you believe this then you also believe in fairy tales.
So like I said, there are fundamentals flaws in the belief of even the Sunni muslims. But nobody says they are deviant right.
So leave the Ahmadiyyahs alone to practice their religion in peace. In fact we should support anyone to practice their religion in peace. Ahmadiyyahs I understand fully believe the Quran and also that Muhammad saw was the last prophet but they interpret other verses in the Quran differently. How can they be deviant and the Sunnis and Shiites etc are not.
Love all, hatred for none!
Kabir
November 27, 2009
As-Salam aleikum,
Could you please tell me how to contact Ahmadiyya Community there in Malaysia? Do you know if they going to the UK Jalsa Salna too?
Aid Mubarak
Kabir,
E-mail me at thepeoplesparliament@gmail.com
apple
October 19, 2011
Thankfully some bloggers can write. Thank you for this blog