By Helen Ang
___________________________
Singapore has had National Service for 41 years, Malaysia 4. Theirs is for lads who serve two to two-and-half years fulltime.
As far as I can ascertain from the Mindef website, the last time that Singapore national servicemen died in camp was August and September 2003. In June 2007, there was one case ruled suicide and earlier, sudden death of a sergeant in Singapore Air Force (SAF).
In the corresponding period (2004 until present), there were more than 20 deaths related to our NS, none for Singapore.
In October 2003, Singapore Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean answered to Parliament. The deaths were Hu En Huai, 19, and Andrew Chew Heng Huat, 20. The minister said Hu collapsed during a Combat Survival Training (CST) session and Chew during a 2.4-km run (for obese recruits) in Basic Military Training Programme.
Hu collapsed at 1645 hours, was given medical treatment onsite and evacuated to Pulau Tekong Medical Centre at 1710 hrs, and by helicopter to Singapore General Hospital arriving at 1752 hrs. Chew collapsed at 1745 hrs and evacuated by helicopter, arriving hospital at 1842 hrs.
Hu died of asphyxia and near drowning. The SAF suspended the CST immediately after the incident. Four officers and a senior specialist who conducted the training were immediately suspended, two instructors responsible for supervising the training relieved of duty and the CO relieved from command. In short, heads rolled for the “extremely serious lapse in the conduct of the training”.
The basic difference is that both Singaporean boys were sent by helicopter to hospital within an hour, whereas the Malaysian boys and girls had been left to be sick and unattended for days. The other difference is that the Singaporeans were doing serious military training as soldiers for the defence of their country; we don’t know what our kids are doing in summer camp.
Singapore Mindef promised “to take all the necessary measures so that what can be prevented will not happen again”. The Malaysian training council chairman still maintains that ‘NS is good for youths’ and claims, “There is only so much I can do as a non-executive chairman given the fact that I do not have executive powers.” http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/5/13/focus/21226158&sec=focus
Our ‘friend’ the MCA think tank CEO remarked in NST recently: “Tan Sri Lee Lam Thye jumped from DAP to ‘pro-establishment’ for the same reason [as Gerakan’s Datuk Lee Kah Choon in Penang], because he wanted to serve.” http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Wednesday/Columns/2232996/Article/index_html
Aaah, those who have chosen to ‘work within the system’.
From the cursory comparison with Singapore, our NS looks fatally flawed. The Boleh ‘system’ makes it so. And along this trail of death, Malaysian parents have thus far used ‘proper channels’ to voice their objections. They have not been given proper answers, unlike in Singapore.
Lee Lam Thye said in The Star: “In the final analysis, what is crucially important is whether all those given responsibilities and the trust to manage the camps discharge their duties with care, honesty, integrity and a sense of commitment.”
The Tan Sri’s choice and use of words evokes what theSun says in its World Press Freedom Day editorial: “However, with the dawn of the Abdullah administration four years ago, the media – both mainstream and alternative – have been enjoying greater liberties in shaping public opinion and nurturing reforms.”
theSun makes this claim for itself: “This paper at least is committed to ‘telling it as it is’. The exposes and columns that have graced the cover and opinion pages would have been close to impossible under the previous administration.”
theSun’s second claim: “The results of the March general election – spurred by the popularity of the alternative as well some traditional media in giving space to the Opposition – further proved that the freer media played a big part in the unprecedented outcome.” http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=21969
The paper’s ex-editors venturing into New Media claim to continue a legacy of providing “content that is written and edited according to the journalistic standards of fairness, accuracy, balance and accountability”.
Its ex-editors also claim the proud tradition: “All a reader needs to do to judge our journalistic integrity is to measure the quality of the interviews we conduct and the issues we write about.”
What has theSun written about the recent spate of deaths in NS? Shall we ask it to interview Lee Lam Thye?
The People's Parliament 
donplaypuks
May 14, 2008
Any Chairman like LLT who is paid to do a job and then blames the CEO has to be kicked out by his people-subsidised butt.
Sadly, this is also a common trend in our Public Listed Companies. As soon as there is an accounting or other fraud, the Chairman is the first to quickly resign without being charged in court. Remember Ling Liong Sik and Transmile and also a famous ex-KLSE CEO and a Bank CEO another company called Blue Ocean Seafood?
barry
May 14, 2008
It sickens me to my core to read about how the greedy people ‘high up there’ care nothing about the utterly useless loss of lives in Malaysia. I just cannot imagine how we can tolerate this gigantic scam just to enrich certain people at the cost of young human lives.
yh
May 14, 2008
i would like to sit in lee’s seat coz its a no losing position. any problems, excuse himself coz its a non-executive chairman position. what the heck, even the ling fella quietly walk away as chairman of transmile after the financial fiasco. he has a real onion face and he cries no more now.
Just
May 14, 2008
Haris,LLT is responsible ; but I think Najib as DPM and Defense Minister should be held even more accountable than LLT.
LALILOo
May 14, 2008
To actually call it “National Service” is wrong in terms of wrong name and wrong meaning. The word national service means doing service [mostly military service]to the country. It is apt when you talk about countries like Singapore, Korea, etc.
Here in Malaysia, the programme is more like a summer camp than a military service. It’s like a Rakan Muda cum scout cum holiday camp kind of a thing. Only a small amount of random people gets to take part in shooting session.
Therefore, to actually calls it a national service is quite wrong. They should change it’s mane.
retard
May 14, 2008
i was thinking about this issue too this afternoon and trying to compare how well we do compared to other countries.
the term “national service” is used by the following countries:
Austria
Mexico
Denmark
Germany
Greece
Israel
Malaysia
Taiwan
Russia
Singapore
South Korea
Norway
Sweden
Switzerland
but when searching Google for “national service” death
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%22national+service%22+death&btnG=Search
the majority of the 1st page results point to deaths occurring in Malaysia. says a lot about how we execute the program doesn’t it?
since the objectives and goals of the national service (http://www.khidmatnegara.gov.my/objective.htm) has been spelt out clearly, has anyone been collecting data to see if any of these objectives and goals are being met? you can’t improve anything you don’t measure right?
oh, and their attitude of lack of responsibility for the deaths of the trainees? the same attitude is shown at their website too.
“PENAFIAN: Jabatan Latihan Khidmat Negara tidak akan bertanggungjawab bagi sebarang kehilangan dan kerugian yang disebabkan oleh penggunaan maklumat yang diperoleh dari laman ini.”
found at the bottom of this page:
http://www.khidmatnegara.gov.my/utamapilih.htm
Patriotic1994
May 14, 2008
My wife urge me to quickly finish the Australia migration paperwork. She doesn’t want our son go to National “Summer” camp when he grow up. He is 6.
Pegasus
May 14, 2008
Those idiots will not learn anything,our NS management is in shambles with untrain officers running the camp.Neglecting the trainees and not taking action on the trainee speaks volume of the expertise we have to handle our children.BN is non-committed in upholding justice, how many more deaths need to occur before these s-holes takes proper action. The camp commandants are not suspended nor taken any action against them, simply it seems that the death is due to the trainees themselves and they are to be blame. We are far behind S’pore and no point comparing with their high standard.There are so much money to be make and discontinuing this NS camp will hit hard on those behind the scene.There seem to be more deaths in the NS camp then in the Malaysian army!!!!!.Parents of the children who died in NS camp should get together and negotiate among themselves to sue the government for the death of their children while under their care !!. Their deaths should not be just a statistic .. but a lesson on taking care a life of a person and to value life itself.
bayi
May 15, 2008
Lee Lam Thye is fast losing whatever little credibility he has left by continuing to stay with the National Service outfit.
I shall refrain from further comment about him and leave any comments to the parents of the victims.
ktak
May 15, 2008
Just do a search on Singapore Mindef website for “NSmen death” and you can read and see the difference.
http://www.ns.sg/nsPortal/portlets/Search/iterate.do?pageNumber=2&pageSize=50&startIndex=0
Meng
May 15, 2008
Tan Sri Lee Lam Thye
In the final analysis national unity cannot be achieved with this silly NS training. Yes you/they have managed to brain washed/indoctrinated them during the training, but after the training these youngsters would go back and tread on the same uneven playing field. The same old story never end…
Yes NS is good for the youth, for 3 months only and also good for those operating the camps. Don’t you agree with me. The problem is greed and not with conscientious effort nor an indepth study made prior to implementation. The end result.. more grievances surfaces as these indoctrinated youngsters are neutralised automatically when treading on the uneven playing field ,acquiring deeper hatred towards the State and race.
NS training is mandatory on an individual and as such his mind is not tuned in to accept the training as opposed to a volunteer. In this respect the various behavioural pattern of livelihood of the various strata of our society has to be taken into consideration.
For those in the lower and middle income group, their children are more attuned to the harsher life style and would be able to undertake more strenuous training. Hence a majority of the children from these groups volunteer for the Armed Services. As for those children in the higher income group including some in the middle group, they are generally a pampered lot and to undertake the training as reflected in the training program will come as a shock to them.
When a child is not psychologically tuned to accept such training various sickness and side effect sets in.
I am not a doctor but talking from experience.
Looking at the training program, the time and space do not provide conditioning of a trainee resulting in casualties. All military types of training are on a gradual climb.
Tan Sri , I would suggest that you give up the appointment as the non exe Chairman. it is a waste of time for you. You lack knowledge in this field.
How can you say it is good for the youth when the governance and the environment do not provide a level field.
Helen Ang
May 15, 2008
RE: ‘NATIONAL SERVICE CALL TO PARENTS’ (earlier post)
& about ‘the system’
____________________________________________________
Keith Says:
May 14, 2008 at 1:13 pm
“The fact is that nobody has the correct data.”
I think nobody has pinned down the exact number of deaths is that a few of the kids may not have died in camp, or perished immediately following evacuation. Their parents may have gotten them out but the children did not survive later complications. Hence the discrepancy.
Prof. Tajuddin should have more details. He puts it at past 20 deaths. YB Fong Po Kuan should be a good person to contact on this as she raised the matter in Parliament.
Another thing worth verifying is whether any of the trainers have died too.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul Warren,
Scott Thong’s numbers crunching, though interesting, is just an estimate.
The NS actually kicked off end-2003, so the pioneering batch to have graduated was in 1st quarter 2004 – to tally the total up to 1st quarter 2008 would not quite make the 15 (yet) as cited by Scott, I should think. Which makes the real stats on fatalities even scarier.
Secondly, the earlier batches could have enrolled fewer participants because logistically speaking, those were in the teething stages (i.e. held in borrowed premises rather than purpose-built premises & more ad-hoc on facilities, amenities, caterers, etc).
NOTE:
Kee Thuan Chye wrote below in Malaysia Today
http://www.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/7300/1
Excerpt:
“Why must we sacrifice our children … for what? It was a hare-brained idea to begin with. And yet despite the public resistance, the Government has insisted on carrying on with it.
If the Government cannot guarantee the safety of each and everyone of those serving NS, it should feel shame and stop this unsafe scheme.
I urge all parents to resist — by refusing to send their children when they are called up for the next round of NS. Let this be a form of conscientious objection. I call on civil society groups to pledge protection for parents who resist should they be hauled up for persecution.”
Kee will be joining our e-group.
Free Malaysia
May 15, 2008
For a country like Malaysia who have achieved many great things like having the tallest flag pole, made the world biggest roti canai, went to space and made teh tarik, I must say our NS is another Malaysia Boleh nonsense.
As for Lee Lam Thye, he can strut around with his Tan Sri title and eat scraps off UMNO’s dinner table and all. To me, the man is just a lap dog.
Crankshaft
May 15, 2008
What has theSun written about the recent spate of deaths in NS? Shall we ask it to interview Lee Lam Thye?
We could. But I doubt we’d get very different answers.
myop101
May 15, 2008
face it, they just see deaths as statistics. like road accidents and their ops sikap XXXXX.
do they really understand that people are committed into their care and they must not tolerate negligence in any form or degree?
i think many parents just cringe in fear and goes through months of agonising sleepless ngihts worrying that their innocent children may be called to do their “national duty”.
sky paratrooper
May 15, 2008
This is just a whim and fancy idea of Mahathir’s. Mahathir wanted to attack Singapore by force but was too weak in military to do so.
Mahathir was constantly in rancor with LKY of Singapore to the point of declaring war with Singapore, but was cowardly reduced to rhetorics only because Singapore is much much more powerful militarily than Malaysia.
Singapore has been training her citizens to fight against any aggressors since Independence whereas Malaysian politicians were fighting for internal powers and deeply involved in blatant corruptions.
So this NS of Malaysia was meant to counter Singapore’s military superiority by training local young men and girls hoping that these young folks could fight against Singaporean soldiers.
Najib was only a proxy of Mahathir carrying out this program but now without a road map.
This Malaysian NS is nothing but a 3 month summer holiday cum extra-curriculum activities for the young boys and girls at the expense of tax payers’ sweat and blood money ala the space tourist sent to the holidaying moon without any benefit whatsoever to the tax payers. All these wasteful expenses only benefits Najib and his cronies aka Lee Lam Thye and others.
If they are professional in their endeavors, they won’t be any death during this tautological NS service.
Mahathir and Najib are responsible for the deaths of the Mongolian girl and now the NS participants just because of their stupid political agenda for their egotistic fulfillment.
It’s time to indict these two most corrupt and parasitic politicians and let them spitting out every single sen of the $$$ billions which had been stolen by them from the hardworking Malaysians.
Sharing
May 15, 2008
IF MOST OF THEM STICK TO THEIR JOBS – WILL TRAGEDY AND MANIPULATION HAPPENED?
————————-
“whether all those given responsibilities and the trust to manage the camps discharge their duties with care, honesty, integrity and a sense of commitment.”
==========
A good questions to all Government Officers, be them the ministers, Judges or clerks!!
Especially when lives and Disciplines are involved!
The basis Words – Ethics and Fairness for ALL!
The Contrary – Selfishness, Ignorance at work!!
———————————————–
If Justice to be practiced,
Should court allow Plaintiff to drag a Suggested Statement of Facts & Issues for more than two years?
Should court allow Defendants’ Lawyers to refuse the include of Counterclaim and refused to press the Plaintiff for Suggested Statement of Facts & Issues and ask for Categorizing of Bundle of Documents when it was in a mess?
Should court allow Defendants’ lawyers to idle with his job and not attending to court for one year without reporting and replying reminders to clients?
Should court asked for explanation and refused to forward explanation from lawyers to clients?
Should court accept trial on a single issue “if the article is defamatory”? and push to head for case management when the Defendants’ lawyers is idling and not attending court?
EVEN THE BLIND & DEAF KNOW JUSTICE WILL NEVER WORK!
BUT THEY INSISTED JUSTICE AT WORK!!
A JOKE WITH BLOOD & TEARS!!
frankie
May 15, 2008
Soon this NS will be refer to as the Killing Field of Malaysia.
Anti-Najis
May 15, 2008
I used to like LLT but his lack of actions and cowardice attitude really put me off. Probably he thinks more head s should roll before NS is terminated. Only that it’s the head of NS trainees, not his men.
all-for-one
May 15, 2008
Where is the spirit to serve with responsibility? Why are these so-called window-dressing leaders sitting there and deprived others who are more willing to serve? Please, stop killing our children!
Paul Warren
May 15, 2008
But isn’t our NS premised on providing an excuse, any excuse at all, to justify spending taxpayer money to enrich UMNO related parties?
Certainly it is a successful and useful excuse for enriching UMNO related individuals.
There is the supply of uniforms. There is the catering. There is the housing. There is the travel. So many UMNO warlords and division and branch chiefs to take care of. There is unfortunately only so much largese that can be shared around.
So you want a share of tax payer money, come up with an excuse. Like Monsoon Cup for instance.
So, yes, that being the objective, and since no one complains about it, I would say, syabas for an objectve well met. Hooray to UMNO’s warlords and cronies. What does it matter if a few lives have to be lost in the process.
Habisboy
May 15, 2008
Some people on this bog have said that the National Service programme is just a “summer camp” etc.
It’s not. It’s where young Malaysian adults die.
And as for the self-serving letter LLT sent to “The Star” he should take a good look in the mirror and be ashamed of himself
DR SURESH KUMAR
May 15, 2008
My heart goes out to all those parents who have lost their loved ones in this ‘death’camp.I hope some sort of committee could be formed as soon as possible by all parents possibly with the help of Prof.Dr Tajuddin to immediately halt this flawed programme,before more deaths occur.Those who are responsible should be brought to justice and meted out the proper punishment for taking the lives of innocent children for granted,starting from the DPM DS Najib.Can Najib tell all of us,what purpose does this NS programme serve?Racial interaction?What sort of racial interaction can one achieve in that short span,when the govt.failed to achieve it in the national schools where a child spends at least 11 years studying.Again a case of trying to enrich a few selfish souls at the expense of innocent kids.A permanent answer to all these debacles is to get rid of this BN govt.in the next GE.They show no remorse.
kevinP
May 15, 2008
funny they compare number of deaths and not the system and its deficiencies.
Someone made a comment that NS is only 46x more lethal that Iraq war todate…
Hence the chance of one getting killed in NS is 46x lesser than in Iraq… yeah great statistics…
Wandering Sam
May 15, 2008
Lee Lam Thye dulu tinggalkan DAP lepas tu berpakat dengan kerajaan BN buat projek ni projek tu jelas nampak cam dia ni orang yg telah menolak prinsip-prinsip mempertahankan hak rakyat biasa dan telah berserah kepada desakan dan panggilan haloba demi keuntungan diri sendiri.
CKinSF
May 15, 2008
This lee lam thye has changed a lot since he left the DAP as secretary general. I had admired him eating chap fan as he did petition writing with his portable typewriter at Imbi food court. Now this man has become a lap dog of najis and the corrupt system. The other swine to watch is this ex-Gerakan’s lee kah choon in Penang
Meng
May 15, 2008
As usual, the BN government screwed up on the term NS. it does not in anyway come close to being call one. Should there be any threat towards Malaysia, I do not think for once those who have attended the training will be able to take up arms to defend the country or to play any role at all.
Looking at the training module as reflected in http://www.khidmatnegara.gov.my/modullatihan.htm
the training are haphazardly compiled and does not in anyway provide any skills.
For example in the Physical module with a duration of 4 weeks, it is a sprinkling of bits and pieces just to make up the 4 weeks of military training. It is more like bashing the trainee to fill up the time or in harsher military words “half FXXX”
Character Building Module. I am confused as to how they are to achieve this as a separate module as most character training generally are inbuilt into the military training system/program to acquire the leadership knowledge,skills and attitude.
Community Service Module is another rubbish and should not be in the NS or military training in the real sense of the word. This aspect belongs to the NGOs and not in the NS or military domain. No doubt this was carried out by the army particularly by the Army Engineers but they only implement based on directives or on request by the NGOs to assist. This is classed under civic action program in the army.
Ohya I had a good laugh when being told that the trainees only press the trigger of the M16 rifles on the shooting range.They are not even allowed to cock the weapon before firing. So what have been taught to them regarding weapon training…holding and firing the rifles, even my grandmother can do it.
afterburner73
May 15, 2008
Ini le ***** Helen Ang. Tak habis-habis nak puji Singapore. Pergi la duduk Singapore!
Meng
May 15, 2008
Why was shooting being implemented? is a good question.
The current market price of each 5.56 rounds/bullet is average $0.80 cents per round. It content is made up of copper,lead and brass at its base.
I do not know how many round each trainee will fire and also depending on the Camp Commandant requirement but suffice to say:
1. Each trainee fires 5 rounds as familiarity shoot to get a feeling of the explosion, cracking sound of the round/bullet flight and the thumbing sound of impact.
2.
but suffice to say the following:
Taking an average of 200 trainees
Mark
May 15, 2008
Make the NS program voluntary and not mandatory. Those parents who want their children to attend, can by all means do so. And for those who do not wish for their children to go, then they don’t have to.
Meng
May 15, 2008
Why was shooting being implemented? is a good question.
The current market price of each 5.56 rounds/bullet is average $0.80 cents per round. Its content is made up of copper,lead and brass at its base.
I do not know how many round each trainee will fire and also depending on the Camp Commandant requirement but suffice to say:
1. Each trainee fires 5 rounds as familiarity shoot to get a feeling of the explosion, cracking sound of the round/bullet flight and the thumbing sound of impact.
2. Taking an average of 250 trainees the amount of rounds used is 1250 at a cost of $1000/- 3 batches and for 81 camps the total comes to $243,000/-
3. Another 5 rounds should be provided to the trainee to learn how to zero on to a target and shot. If this is not done might as well cancell the weapons program.
If provided it would be another $243,000/-
4. The shooting session should end up with a small testing of skills to see what they have achieved. ie another 5 rounds another $243,000/-
This is the most minimum of the most minimum shooting training provided and yet cost a total of $729,000/-
Big money ha , but thats not all. Remember Malaysian contract for supply tenders are usually bloated up, don’t you think it would not happen here in the supply of ammo.
Meng
May 15, 2008
Supply of Boots, what do you think will be the cost.
Say each pair of combat boot cost approx $180/- But If you buy it from Ah Chong or Ahmad it may go down to 120 minimum after some quarrelling
Let take the figure of $120. 3 batches in each camp = 750 trainees, multiply by 81 camps = $7,290,000/-
Wah I wish I am the contractor.
Well you can verify the figure from any shops that sell military items.
Meng
May 15, 2008
How much do you think the food bill looks like.
For bulk contract, let say breakfast is at $1.00, lunch at $2.00 and dinner also at $2.00.-total $5.00 per day
For 250 trainees the cost per day amounts to $1250/-
– 3 months or 90 days = total $112,500/- per month for each camp, -multiply by 81 camps = $9,112,500/-
Hay thats only training for one batch, well multiply by 3 batches it is above 27 million am I right???
But do you think in the right frame of one’s mind the daily cost of $5/- is sufficient for each trainee.
Of course the figure of $5/-I quoted is real farfetched.
If the contract price is below $12,50, the contractor will supply sick chicken, rotten vege,stale fish and don’t blame your child when he/she returns home and eat like he/she has been on hunger strike or even food poisioning during training.
Normal food Provided:
Breakfast
One hard boiled egg, bread with margarine and jam.
Lunch and dinner:on the norm
Meat or fish and one type of vege and soup and maybe some sambal. If there are more, good, but I doubt it. These are standard army,police and prison food.
elfiejane
May 15, 2008
it’s really sickening.. to read what’s going on in malaysia. these high-up people don’t care about shit.
Vaseau
May 15, 2008
This is probably what the PM wannabe is thinking:
“What’s wrong with these bleeding heart morons? Why are they making such a big hoohaa about just 16 deaths? Can’t they see the big picture? 16 out of 20 + million is nothing. Can’t they understand this thing called economic spin off? How many jobs we have created? How much of the NEP agenda we have fulfilled? How many small time people are on their way to become big time? How much money has changed hands, gone into circulation?
And can’t they see it is pointless to compare us with Singapore? Singapore has a different agenda and runs its NS on different terms…we are doing ours for other “national” purposes.
Don’t they even realize that there is this thing called “learning curve? That some must inevitably die if we have to learn (which is why we called it national service in the first place?
Finally can’t they see that no one pushes me around? I have decided that 16 dead bodies is no reason to do anything differently and that is it. Can’t these idiots see that no one pushes around the next PM? Idiots!! “
Meng
May 15, 2008
In my fair opinion we should not make any comparison with another country for each provision of infrastructure, facilities, monetary and staffing differs.
Even though with certain deficiencies found, the Malaysian Armed Forces record on recruit training, records a low level of death. Almost all recruit training world wide have more or less similiar training syllabus except for certain pecularities in skills required to suit their environment in terms of climate and terrain. Safety arrangement are emphaised in the various training environment or stages.
In the Malaysian context there are in place to provide the safety requirement and this I should say have worked well. Take for example in camp training, the recruits are paraded each morning and an inspection is made to detect injuries, sickness and often the recruits are asked to strip half naked to be inspected for skin disorder. Those detected with any sign of discomfort, sickness etc etc are sent to the camp doctor. Even with a sprain in the ankle the recruit will be prevented from participating in the training but tack along to observe. In outdoor training there is always an ambulance fully equiped for evacuation. Training in the heart land where not accessible by road helicopters are tasked for medical evacuation.
In addition arrangement are made with the nearest hospital prior to each major exercises. The Army doctor will coordinate with the hospital on the likely casualties expected. This has been the norm.
But, it is always the but, with such SOPs in place and practised why these are not implemented in the NS.
There is a major different, One is a professional training institution whereas the other is a privatised camp for political influence and wastage of tax payers fund or whatever name you would like to call it.
I can confidently say don’t look down on the Malaysian System which has been fully tested. Our soldiers have been subjected to booby traps, gunshot wounds in firefight and have been evacuated to the nearest hospital and are alive to speak of their experience.
sailor
May 15, 2008
For the sake of our children future, please stop the NS or national shit.
The BN govt should be held 100% responsible without question and each victim family should be fully compensated for life. As i think further of the possible reasons for this adamant careless attitude of BN – feel ashamed of own stupidity so they just pretend that all is still OK, continuing the program mean more millions can be made, the leaders own children are not in NS, lose face in the world if project is stopped, and so on and on.
This is one project that caused billions and yet what has resulted from it. Has the stupid leaders set up a body to assess/quantify what these ‘benefits’ are in the first place. Did I hear national unity??? This is only a disguised reason. The cronies need to find ways to make money. Unity begins at the top. But look at BN for example – most racist party in the world. So where is the unity to come from??
SinMal
May 16, 2008
Our Malaysian ministers also seemed to have overlooked the fact in Singapore, even the Prime Minister’s children have to serve in NS. I would like to see the ministers put their money where their mouth is: sent their kids for our brilliant NS. And no special treatment, please.
DR SURESH KUMAR
May 16, 2008
To afterburner73,
Helen Ang loves Malaysia more than you are thats the reason she compared the NS programme in Singapore wth Malaysia hoping those Malaysian army morons will learn one or two things in the fervent hope that future deaths of our innocent kids will be avoided,i think if she wants to live in singapore she probably wont even bother to highlight this.To me u sound more like a traitor than a responsible citizen.So dont ridicule yourself and grow up.
Singapore & Malaysia
May 16, 2008
In fact a lot of National policies are meant to be good. Icld. this NS.
But guys we are just not ready for this NS. Why? Malaysian, in many layers of society, still have this “Tidak Apa Attitude”!
Many National Policies which we already have are actually meant good. But we have to accept that the ppl who has this tidak apa attitude ruin all of it!
If we seriously want to have “good-modern-standard” for things that we do, then we will never ever make it if the tidak apa attitude does not change.
Of course there are always price to pay if we seriously want to achieve world class standard in thing we do. But i dont want to discuss this here.
Because i love my country that is why i point out the above. I am sorry to say this. I am malysian, i live in singapore for almost 20 years. I am not saying singapore is the heaven on earth (they are alot of things which i dont like about singapore too). but i am saying if we want to be on par with singapore then Malaysia can never make it if this tidak apa atitude is rooted in the majority of our ppl.
Not only we can never catch up with other, we really will go backward with this attitude.
So who are going to blame in this NS case?( or rather in all the cases)
In my opinion, Malaysia should beat the shit out of Singapore in anything. But can we? And do we really want it that bad?
Richy
May 16, 2008
From what I see in “The Sun” nowadays is that the paper is surely becoming one of the most outspoken media after Malaysiakini. Terence and Citizen Nades are doing things which many of the journalists of other MSM will think twice to do.
I am quite sure one of them will react to this article very soon.
Ramish Rajoo
May 16, 2008
Dear Malaysian,
If you all want the rot to stop. Please do your duty to get rid of BN. Only then, Malaysia will be truly Malaysia….Start Kicking their ass …..
Gecko
May 16, 2008
in respond to commenter ‘retard’ question on google, google tends to show relevant results based on your ip address (where you’re from). If i were to search for national service in Australia, the results would be different, coz google tend to localize the results.
e.g. If I google for ‘iphone’ in australia, it will show online shopping websites from australia, where as a search for ‘iphone’ in Malaysia using google will have a different results – usually websites by malaysian.
ijustdon'tunderstand
May 16, 2008
Pegasus Says:
May 14, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Those idiots will not learn anything,our NS management is in shambles with untrain officers running the camp.. The camp commandants are not suspended nor taken any action against them, simply it seems that the death is due to the trainees themselves and they are to be blame.
My nephew who is a SAF instructor told me that the his commander always remind the instructors that trainees are, trainees. They are never to be blame. They can be punished lightly (eg push-ups, extra duties, weekend confinements) but they are never blamed. The only persons who should take the all the blame are instructors and commanders.
Sharing
May 16, 2008
Every Single Event is a Snapshot of Malaysia
============================================
A lot of Topic goes not because of necessity but because of chance of expenditure.
Many decision and practice are done because someone wants it and not because of thorough and joint genuine consideration with time to time rectifications and modifications.
Bureaucracy with set-up like rubber chop in many case are the governing body. So when times come, they only becomes a spoke-man with finger pointing or a black sheep to the scold!
Disciplinary forces are subject to tight Rules & Regulation as well as tight procedural checking and enforcement as they are the heart of the Government towards emergency or security of the country.
They should have power as well as responsibilities to be called upon when something had happened.
After so many death, had any thorough investigation and thorough call of responsibilities on those involved?
Especially if the cause of the problem be discovered and rectified before continuing?
NS MUST STOP UNTIL THE REASON OF ALL THE CAUSE OF DEATH BEEN INVESTIGATED, IDENTIFIED AND RECTIFIED.
AT THE SAME TIME, A FULL PICTURE OF NS SHOULD BE REVEALED WITH QUESTIONS IF THEY SHOULD BE CONTINUED OR IN ANOTHER FORM.
At least the following should be made available:
1. Organization Chart outlining the types of Personnels, qualification, experience and job specifications should be provided.
2. The training schedules and the rules and regulations of the operations.
3. The Emergency handling procedures and the flow.
4. Budget of the operation.
5. The sequent of event on each of the death case.
6. The reports from each and every previous participants, if possible.
IF FOR MORAL TRAINING WITH BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY, MILITARY IS SURELY NOT THE RIGHT PLACE!!
But, social services in many walks of life!!
For example, apprenticeship in many of the Government offices should be promoted instead, a step closer to part of the real world!
If for the military training, strict medical check-up with right assignment of training and jobs should be the priority.
For similar training in some country, it is a matter of weeks and not even month! A program for youth to understand the system more than physical training.
THE NEXT & IMMEDIATE PROGRAM IS HOW TO HELP THOSE PARENTS TO AVOID NS IF THE AUTHORITY INSISTS ON CONTINUATION BEFORE TIGHT REVIEWING OF NS.
maxwell
May 16, 2008
LEE LAM THYE IS A SHAME TO THE HUMAN KIND. I MET THAT GUY YEARS AGO AND SAD TO SAY THAT HOW HE GOT SO FAR IS A MYSTERY TO ME.
IT IS ONE THING TO SAY THAT YOU NEED TO JUMP SHIP OR TO SUPPORT THE SYSTEM BECAUSE OF PERSONAL NEEDS…BUT IT IS ANOTHER WHEN YOU ARE THE HEAD OF NS & YOU DUN DO YOUR JOB PROPERLY TO ENSURE THAT THE KIDS ARE PROTECTED & SAFE IN THE CAMPS.
LEE LAM THYE —REGARDLESS OF THEIR RACE & ETHNICITY—THEIR BLOOD IS ON YOU.
LEE LAM THYE YOU SHOULD BE TRIALED & CHARGE WITH MURDER–FACE THE FIRING SQUAD.
LEE LAM THYE GET OUT OF THIS PLANET !!!
HOW THE NAME LEE LAN THYE MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL !
C
May 16, 2008
Today’s from the Star , Najib said that Singapore’s NS deaths are more than Malaysia. Oh God , our govt are not comparing the positive point of view like economy but negative things like death.
How can a person’s life be taken so lightly by our authorities? Why does the value of a life is so meaningless to them who just brushed it off easily ? All these are unneccesary deaths.
I can’t deny that NS do have some good points.My friends who went to NS have say they enjoy and found it meaningful. I asked them what have they learned and was told that they learned to be a team player among the races etc.
However , the NS has too many flaws like impropriate NS ground which are set up last min ( the last min works are still there for 4 yrs),budgeting…etc. All these should be look into before running the NS. If not, it will only cause more damages with pros more than cons. It’s too bad our govt doesn’t care to make any improvement or reorganise it just for the sake of protecting their original claims that NS is good.
galadriel
May 16, 2008
Dear Helen,
I was writing post in the very same vein, drawing comparison with Singapore n all. But I will not post it, since you said most things I wanted to say, and you said them much better.
Singapore Armed Forces has its own can of worms, but I will not go there, cos fundamentally, they are doing something right and necessary for the country.
Back to Malaysia. I think the National Service here should be scrapped not only because of the unnecessary deaths but because the whole rationale is wrong.
Why should kids die at camps because the government wants a stop-gap programme when they realised that there is racial polarisation in our schools and colleges.
Three months in National Service can fix years of polarisation? This blame must lie at the govt’s door. And LLT trying to tegakkan benang basah…quit already man!
They should rot….and not necessary in hell.
As to the “purveyors of truth” in the mainstream media, they are just self-aggrandising types.
Both Malaysian Insider and Malaysia Votes sounds dodgy in ways that is making the Rocket sound like your benign community rag.
Who wants to do the dog work that is investigative reporting anymore Helen? Who has the balls to write an impartial but fiery editorial anymore? I’m sure some of the editors have children of NS age. But then, if they criticise, they lose their pay packet.
Priorities are still me, my career, my wallet, my family….bla bla bla
me
May 16, 2008
the chicken supplied to KEM PLKN was from Lembaga Pertubuhan Peladang. have anyone visit the factory? so filthy!!! no temperature control too
and they also supply to hospital sick people eat sub-standard food = get sicker..
thats BN gomen for ya!
blardy hell
Meng
May 16, 2008
The Malaysian army blocks involved in the training cannot be blamed for death in the NS. I am sure they are carrying out job diligently but have their legs tied through lack of resources. Take a peep at their training which I am sure not many of you have done or even bothered to do so. If you have not done it, do it. It is interesting to observe. Observation or seeing with your own eye balls provide some answers and certainly refreshing. Many question can be answered on the WHYs and WHY that?? Of major concern the required resources that should be in place are not in the camp inventry. They have to source from the nearby camps to provide. If the resources cannot be provided but the NS training still need to go on and if there is an accident, whose fault. If the camp commandant decides to stop the training , HE WILL BE REMOVED. I am sure all of you may have read somewhere that a Major tried to help a parent to solve certain problems and thereafter the Major was taken out. So where do we go from there??
Legs and hands are tied mah. ” I don’t care how you do it but do it mah”
I pity and sympathize with our army blocks for being called all sort of names. Certainly there is a certain amount of finger pointing without looking at the shortcoming face by those army blocks. POOR GUYS.
To learn from Singapore, just because they are able to evacuate Quote “collapsed at 1745 hrs and evacuated by helicopter, arriving hospital at 1842 hrs.”unquote Thats close to an hour. Have any of you given thoughts to the distance or time and space involved.
Can we learn any thing from there. NO.
Our Army blocks injured by booby traps along the Thai- Mal Border, evacuated to Penang General hospital less than 2 hours.
Can we learn anything from there? Yes. So what is the difference???
In Singapore it is pratically accessible and no efforts involved in getting a helicopter on the ground.
As for our Army blocks, they have to cut down the trees
contruct a landing point for the heli to land.
To get back on to NS, in the first place it should not have been implemented with out the resources on the ground. If any of the Camp Commandant go or goes against the instruction, his career goes down the drain and will be kicked around like a ball?? See the problem. Who is to be blamed?, if you ask me…Whose brain child is it…the defence minister mah throwing his weight around….Cannot stop NS, too many people involved.
At this stage of the his game, no matter how much we all complain he will not move and inch.
Unless more resources are included in the camp inventry, more death will happen.
Perhaps our complain should be more towards acquiring those resources to stop accident and death. What do you think?
yh
May 16, 2008
many had try to justify the continuation of NS because it has good intentions. but, isnt the road to hell is paved with good intentions. how many more body bags would have to be used before this program is sent to oblivion? NS sucks cause it is using national integration to cover up the money trail to the fat cats. and 16 deaths are measly to them coz they know it wont be their children.
and now, they are adding sex education as part of the damage control exercise. oh, by the way, what has sex education gotta to do with national integration? unless it includes promotion of mixed marriages!
Rene Gan
May 16, 2008
NS is only a make shift summer camp. This sub-standard organisation brainchilded by a sub-standard human with the only motive to enrich himself is a crime and a sinful act. If he is human he will redeem himself, guess he is not.
Malaysians should all stand up and say no to NS.
Meng
May 16, 2008
The importance of Medical resources available in the NS camp cannot be not relegated to the background. In all major training on related military works, availability of Medical coverage overides the implementation for the rest of the training. Without this the training is either brought forward or conducted on low key within the confind of the camp.
Are these available?. I am talking of staffing with complete medically trained nurses and orderlies who are able to provide life saving to the trainess and having a their own clinic with complete medical facilities and equipment. Malaysian are famous for building an infrastructure and staffing it but not equiped to do anything.
Hey don’t forget there is also a need for an ambulance fully equiped to tag along on outdoor training.
Do we have it???
We have a sick government resulting in a sick system not giving much attention to health care.
Take a peep into the camps like I do. Peeping is my favourite ..refreshing you get the answers. But the most enjoyable peeping was seeing an individual lighting a candle all by himself and being cart..ed away and followed by a group out foxing the Blues and lighting candles on the fence. No offence meant but I like to peep
Francis Pereira
May 16, 2008
Official responses to the deaths is symptomatic of the Barisan malady which has afflicted our nation. National Service ala Malaysia is just part of the gravy train and the government should wake up to the need for a more meaningful National Service supported by the delivery systems to make this work. Fail to do this and the National Service will become yet another proverbial millstone around the Barisan neck!!
Ah Long
May 16, 2008
This LLT is shedding crocodile tears again? anyone still remembered the day he told the press that he is leaving DAP? He shed tears too, now we know this fella tears do not have passion, nor is he grieved at all. How can he pass the bucket to another person? He says he has no exec. powers what the heck is he staying on for? For glamor and the lucrative incentives on a yearly basis? If he has any conscience at all, please leave and scrapped the whole NS system which was flawed form the very beginning.
Ark
May 19, 2008
Accidents do happen in military training…so there will be some deaths. But you still need an army if you want to defend yourselves in the unlikely event of an invasion, so find out what’s wrong with the current system and fix it
bow
May 21, 2008
Change this failed program into voluntary service, end of story. Any death after this will be the responsibility of the parent not government.