At the time of writing up this post, my ‘Enter the Third Force’ post had elicited 82 comments in this blog and another 26 comments at the MalaysiaToday link.
Many have been critical of the idea of a third force.
Equally, many have voiced concerns about the possibility of such an initiative literally handing constituencies over to BN arising from 3-corner contests, or diluting Pakatan Rakyat’s pull with voters, or even confusing voters in some constituencies.
This criticism is good. It means we are thinking. This is what we need.
I want to address the issue of sufficiency in numbers of quality candidates here, but let me first quickly say that the initiative that we have in mind envisages a close level of co-operation between Pakatan Rakyat and the third force.
The third force is not in competition with Pakatan Rakyat.
As I said in the earlier post, we are working on a common aspiration : to kick BN out come the 13th GE.
As such, no question of 3-corner fights arise.
For the moment, lets forget about the state seats and turn our focus to the parliamentary seats.
Presently, there are 222.
A redilineation exercise is due by next year.
We do not know how many new parliamentary seats will be created through that exercise.
So lets just stick to the existing number of 222 for our present discussion.
BN hold 137, Pakatan have 76 and there are 9 independent MPs.
In the 13th GE, Pakatan must not only strategise to defend their 76 seats, but most also look to field another 146 candidates to take on BN and the independents in the other constituencies.
Those of us working on the third force initiative would not have even bothered with this effort if we thought Pakatan had the requisite number of candidates to field for all 222 seats come the next GE.
Do they?
Do they have in their ranks 222 good, honest women and men to offer as candidates come the 13th GE?
To the extent that they might not, that is where the third force hopes to augment the Pakatan Rakyat by making available indepependent candidates who will, without joining any of the parties, stand on a Pakatan ticket.
It has been done before.
Wee Choo Keong of MDP stood on a PKR ticket in Wangsa Maju.
Dr Jeyakumar of PSM stood on a PKR ticket in Sungai Siput.
We need to know early if Pakatan Rakyat have enough good candidates to field in all the seats.
If they have enough, good.
If not, the third force would like to make available candidates to supply the shortfall.
Anwar, to his credit, admitted that he made mistakes in the selection of candidates in the last election.
We’ve seen the whore and the cash vendor from DAP cross over to BN.
Hassan Ali of PAS has been causing havoc in Selangor.
All three Pakatan parties have had their share of nightmares in the selection of candidates.
When do we get to find out if Pakatan have got 222 candidates of unquestionable integrity to field in the next election?
On the eve of nomination day?
Why is there the need to hold close to the chest the identities of candidates?
They used to tell us that if the details of candidates were known early, those candidates would be approached by the other side with enticements!
Isn’t that the very candidate that we do not want to have?
Another reason is that if it is known too early who the candidate is, other hopefuls will not work for the party or may even work to sabotage.
Are weaknesses in the party rank and file reason enough to keep constituents in the dark as to who is being offered by Pakatan until the eleventh hour, by which time there is little time to source another candidate from civil society?
Let’s forget for the moment the 146 seats held by BN and independent candidates, and turn our attention to the 76 seats presently held by Pakatan.
Are they all MP material?
If any one of the 76 is your MP, can you say that they have lived up to your expectations?
Would you vote for them again come the 13th GE?
And if you would not, are you not entitled to know at the earliest if he or she is being replaced and, if so, by who?
Would they stand up to a benchmark?
Could we set a benchmark?
In an earlier post, I had asked commentators to share their thoughts on a criteria by which we should measure our MPs.
32 responded.
My2cen suggested that an MP should be highly intelligent, have a good grasp of our Malaysian history & lots of respect for it’s multiculturalism, know enough of the law to be able to understand the proposed bills/laws to be implemented, or propose new bills/laws that are more current and benefit the people as a whole, can articulate well and highlight to us any adverse laws and policies that are being contemplated, or already implemented by the govt that should be scrapped, and have a good sense of humour.
Could we use this as an initial benchmark to measure the present Pakatan MPs?
Nutgraph carried out an MP Watch effort, where they posed 6 questions to all MPs. Some responded. Others did not.
Could this effort, too, be used to measure the 76 Pakatan MPs?
I’m also aware of an internal effort at PKR to come up with a criteria for candidate selection.
Would it not be a good idea if Pakatan set up a joint committee with civil society to come up with that criteria, so that public expectation is not overlooked when the three parties sit to pick their candidates?
In the very first post in this blog, I wrote :
“This blog, then, is about civil society reclaiming its power to determine who are the law-makers in Parliament today who are worthy of the trust reposed in them by the people and if, sadly, we discover there are none presently, to make an informed decision of who we will next install in the people’s parliament”.
I vote in the PJ Selatan constituency. I voted for YB Hee Loy Sian. I propose to now appraise his performance over the last two years with a view to deciding if he has been worthy of my vote and is worthy of a second term come the 13th GE.
If YB Hee fails, I will turn to PKR to ask who will be fielded in his place, as I am entitled to know early if the replacement is acceptable or whether I need to source a candidate from elsewhere.
I welcome any other PJ Selatanites to join me in this effort. Send me an e-mail at thepeoplesparliament@gmail.com if you would care to work on this effort.
Similarly, if any other readers from the other constituencies would like to form a group to measure your respective Pakatan MP, drop me an e-mail at thepeoplesparliament@gmail.com, stating your name, constituency and contact number and a I will try to help put your group together.
The People's Parliament 
PH Chin
August 9, 2010
At this stage of our political journey, a third force is vital for a vibrant democracy in the near future.
We have to address the weak link in PR, that is the lack of candidates with integrity.
The way forward is to ensure a pool of good, credible, capable and accountable candidates to contest in the next GE.
Let us, the ‘rakyat’ set the benchmark and monitor the performance of the potential candidates.
Redhuan D. Oon
August 9, 2010
MP Watch –> yes, we support, as an impartial group that analyses objectively each candidate’s performance and character. With no funny business trying to spoil any vote. As you said there are already insufficient candidates.
Otherwise you be open to suspicion. Are you another Rocky Bru in the making?
sr2
August 9, 2010
My wife & I voted for Pakatan in ’08 only because:
a) we liked certain personalities they fielded – like Hannah Yeoh, Nurul Izzah & Tony Pua who incidentally we supported by volunteering at his election centre though we voted in Shah Alam!
b) and we liked some who spoke at those rallies – this 3rd force – folks like your good self & RPK.
So yes, we are all supportive that it is formalised now. About time too.
sans
August 9, 2010
Would this 3rd force of MP’s first agree to common Pakatan Rakyat platform and agenda? What if they are independent in the truest sense and therefore do not want to play ball or maintain discipline? Will they be able to mouth off because they are not beholden to any party and have no need to maintain discipline?
But most importantly, why would any political party put the resources and campaign for someone who is not part of their party? Would there then be a third force of resources and campaigners?
This is naive, and actually undemocratic. Ideally candidates should be decided by their constituents. In more developed democracies there is less centralised control and local party members after a hustings vote for a candidate of their choice to represent their party. Each local consitituency guard their independence jealously and central office have very little power to interfere.
In Malaysia candidates are still imposed and your route of a third force will also mean a candidate imposed by the central office. We need more demoracy even within parties not less and not some elite imposition becuase they know better. Let democracy be practicised and flourish within parties and let the best candidate be chosen democractically by local party members
Kee Thuan Chye
August 9, 2010
Haris,
As long as the members of the third force stand on a Pakatan ticket, that would be good. They should not stand as independents.
nathan
August 9, 2010
Yes Bro. Haris, We had better get this ‘Third Force’ concept in place, while watching the Political horizon.
This Concept of Civil Society Initiative is still very foreign to most people, even now.
Come GE.13, the PR parties are surely going ‘parachute in’ candidates again, who are virtually unknown to the contituents…and some of Dubious Quality on to us VOTERS, and then WE might just end up, simply having to Vote blindly…and having to keep our fingers (and Toes too!) crossed hoping that they will measure up!!
We should have learnt this from GE.12…I am sure that there is better talent out there compared to some of our Parliamentarians we were forced to Vote for/elect
because of force of circumstances. Yes sure we can’t be sure that our selected Candidate will be worthy of our Vote and be ‘Team Players’too, to bring about the Change that WE are looking forward to.
amd
August 9, 2010
organise a civil soc meet on mp criteria and outcome submitted to pkr
jeff young
August 9, 2010
Dear Haris,
Agree with this. Its a great idea to make sure we get Real MP Material.. not frogs again.
Do you have a check list or a method to make sure pretenders and spy get their names in the list
p-loon
August 9, 2010
I’m a fellow PJ Selatanite, Haris. In my books, Hee Loy Sian has failed–and miserably too. I never saw nor heard him utter a word before, during or after he became MP. I voted for him because he was from PKR, despite the fact that he didn’t even speak at one ceramah during the campaign. I thought he was just too busy, but now I know he’s just dumb, figuratively–hopefully not literally too. If he stands in the next election, I’ll be voting BN in spite of myself. And that’s a promise, not a threat.
Eric
August 9, 2010
With all due respect p-loon, I am from PJ Selatan too. Is “I never saw nor heard him utter a word before, during or after he became MP” really a valid criterion for MP’s performance? Our ADUN, Edward Lee, is hardly seen nowadays even though his everyday work is amazing. Being discrete does not mean ineffective.
I have read about Hee Loy Sian asking questions in the Hansard. That’s what matters. I think we all ought to understand a good MP’s job is NOT to shake hands with old people at pasar malam or watch clogged drains, but to be seated in Parliament raising questions and propositions.
Besides, do you honestly think Donald Lim did or will do a better job?
CPK
August 9, 2010
However ineffective your MP or ADUN may be, a vote for any BN candidate is a vote for BN = a vote for UMNO.
Before you carry out your promise, please seriously consider these questions:
Do you think our Judiciary is fair and impartial? Do you think the PDRM is clean and effective?
Do you think the MACC should exist in its present form, and are they doing a good job?
Do you think the ISA in its present form, and as it is presently used, is good and necessary for our homeland security?
Do you agree that, in Malaysia, we need an Offocial Secrets Act, instead of a Freedom of Information Act?
Do you think that the way laws are debated and passed in our Parliament is good?
Do you think our country is headed in the right direction – are we getting richer or poorer?
Do you agree that the country’s vast wealth (e.g. Petronas) is being used wisely?
Do you think corruption in this country is at an acceptable level?
Do you think it is fine for the contracts with our highway concessionaires to be ‘official secrets’?
Do you think this country is getting better for our children?
Do you approve of the way contracts are awarded?
Do you think we have good schools and a good education system in this country?
Do you agree that no further action was considered necessary over the Lingam tape issue?
Do you think the Teoh Beng Hock’s family will get justice?
Do you think Anwar Ibrahim’s sodomy trial is going fairly?
Are you happy to have high rise developments suddenly springing up on every street corner in PJ Selatan and PJ Utara?
Do you think it is fine for our ex-S’gor MB to have the kind of mansion he has?
Do you think the people of Sabah and Sarawak are getting a fair share of the country’s wealth – are the Penans getting a fair deal with regards to their customary land rights?
Do you think that the Orang Asli are getting a fair deal over their land?
Do you approve of the way the change in Government in Perak occurred?
(The list could go on).
I appeal to you to vote according to the big picture, and not on Hee Loy Sian’s performance as an individual.
Peter
August 10, 2010
Those people who yelled “PR, start working & stop wasting rakyat time & resources by digging up the old “shit” of BN were really morons talking cheaply, can you expect DSAI to instruct the IGP, the MACC, etc etc to do their works? Instruct the JKR to build this road, that bridge this & that infrastracture to solve the rakyat problems?
And now these people say this PR & that PR not up to their mark?
You still want to vote Khir Toyol & Zakaria so they can take your money to build their personal palaces & go to all the Disney Lands in the world? You trying to talk like a hero?
Peter
August 9, 2010
Haris as a lawyer will be extremely familiar with a NDA (non-disclosure agreement). In warfare everyone will know the importance of secrecy and withholding vital info from the enemies. I am guessing in litigation it is also advantageous to withhold information from opposing parties.
I hope this third force effort if it proceeds with discussion with Pakatan will select some absolutely trustworthy individuals bound by NDA to initiate discussions with Pakatan. Please.
ZhangHo
August 9, 2010
Harris,
Your concern & sharing of the “3rd Force” is admirable & noble and deserves more urgent serious & objective discussions! It is a cool concept,.. good and has much merits and deserves more deliberation!
However, the selection and “sourcing” of this pool of candidates may be more easy in theory than its excution!
A “3rd Force” to support & campaign for PR on important national Rakyat issues may be more readily feasible!.
The PR Coalition Parties must have also done a lot of self-examination & preparatory works, after “debacle” & “nasty” experience of the 12GE with the emergence of the “Devil Frogs from Hell”, and the collapse of PR’s Perak State Government!
There are so many areas which are unchartered territories with lots of “landmines”, not to mention the elements of “Trojan Horses”, “Sabateurs”, and “Kamikazes & Hara Kiris personnel” which may all come from or exist within & without the PR Coaliton Parties!
Of much concern are also the habitual & expected internal & factional “squabbles” over potential candidates for party nomination!
Then there are the unsettled PR Coalition inter-parties discussions for the sharing & allocation of the seats!
We also have to consider the present political landscapes & the potential political enery that can unleash unforseen,unexpected & uncontrollable turbulence for PR!, We also do not have the luxury of controlling the Federal Election Machinery and other Government facilities like the Civil Service, uniformed bodies of PDRM,Rela & Army, and EC!
Not to mention the expected “Harassments” from Special Branch for these candidates who may not be members of any political parties & may be detained indefinitely under “ISA or what nots”.. and last minute “disappearances” on nomination day, cleverly sabotaged by the “Enemy”!
A more natural nurturing of such “3rd Force” potential election candidates by the early encouraging & immediate singling and preparing such candidates to join the PR Coalition Parties of their choice, … volunteer & commit their readiness to be included in the intra party pool of “potential candidates” for consideration & selection on “stand by basis”. There must be respect & strict adherance & acceptance to the final decision of the said PR Coalition Party.
The whole exercise must be effective and cohesive, intra & inter PR Coalition Parties with efforts conducted in unison with all existing founding party guidelines; executed & decided with strict Party Rules & Discipline!
If the “3rd Force” can possibly be planned & thinking along this line, your proposed concept may go a long, long way in producing good & quality PR Parliamentarians & Lawmakers, come the 13GE!
Congratulations, Harris for a sound & good proposal. Hope as many Rakyat can put on their thinking caps & continue to fine tune the concept until it becomes workable & with minimum “hiccups”!
drrafick
August 9, 2010
Dear Haris
The aim should not be about kicking BN out but putting good people irrespective of party platform into the government.
Dr Rafick of http://www.rights2write.wordpress.com
Peter
August 9, 2010
I will say priority should now be placed on getting a team in Putrajaya to construct proper “check and balance infrastructure” and efforts put into selection of members of that team.
BN MP’s are bound by the BN whip which is never lifted irrespective of merits of an issue. BN MP by that requirement represent the executive and never the rakyat. While that whip remains, I would say never vote for a BN candidate.
An MP on entering Parliament swear to uphold and defend the Constitution. Have any BN MP done that successfully? Name me a BN candidate that had never contributed to the mutilation of the candidate and perhaps I may change my mind.
Peter
August 9, 2010
Sorry should read
“Name me a BN candidate that had never contributed to the mutilation of the Constitution and perhaps I may change my mind”
Jong
August 9, 2010
Why not when we have rogues that’s running the country today! We want to bury them for good, 53 years is too damn long!
Peter
August 9, 2010
Dr. Rafick, let me refer you to the Nut Graph
“Let’s also look at the realities of our Parliament, where the legislative agenda is decided by the executive.
Peter
August 9, 2010
The article in question: The moral imperative of disobeying unjust laws
doodle do
August 10, 2010
Just look at BN especially the qualities of UMNO MPs. Do you thinkthey are better?They are chosen because they havemore cash to throw about. When they in the MP post, they need to recover the investment and make profit. If not how to “live” and tightened their waist and belly?
But realistically, it is a lot of sacrifices. Even with large amount of party machinery and funds, Chew Mei Fun of MCA,shows there is a lot of campaigning, walking and speaking from door to door. In the end, you just get a few thousand ringgits per month salary but a MP work does not stop until late at night. Otherwise, they say, they did not see you or never come until election.
If one think he/she is so capable where is she/he to volunteer to stand in Jalapang in Hee Yit Foong’s seat. She has been in the party for umpteen of years? Why don’t go and tell DAP one is better than her before she becomes a frog?
Even wise man like Lee Kuan Yew find that getting capacable MPs and future leaders for the government are very very rare. They may be good MPs but when further tested, they are not good leaders and have to be left out in the next election.The pond is small for getting good MPs and leaders.
The same happened to PR. Just look at DAP has been trying and trying. After more than 30 years post 1969, how many defeats have they faced. Who wants to stand for election if the bet of winning is so slim. Why waste the time and money unless one has money to throw and take it as “advertisement” to one’s name and product like Billy who will run for KL Parliamentary?
No doubt the third force is good for democracy but at this rate with the ruling government trying to destroy opposition using unlevel playing ground, misuse of taxpayers allocation in using the police, civil servants, we will not have a strong opposition to keep the present government in check. We will return back to the days of Mahatail with weak opposition.
Instead,we should sound to PR to get better MPs.In politics, there are ironies.UMNO Zakaria and DAP Tee are doers. They are very kawan to grassroots and often mix around with common people. But people like Tony Pua are thinkers but not many grassroot supports. If PR gets into the next Government, we need the next Government to propel Malaysia forward. The present Government has no visions and reforms. Our education system has not changed since 50’s, industries still depend on cheap labour while countries like S.Korea after the Korean war in the 50s and Vietnman in the 70’s are ahead or catching up with Malaysai.
Mad Logic
August 11, 2010
How could this be achieved when the rule of the game is that the government is from the party that first pass the post ? The Selangor state government and Penang state government had tried to induct capable BN candidates into the government but were shunned and punish with expulsion.
More importantly is that the country is now facing very serious and grave systemic problems and voting a few BN candidates in, no matter how capable they are, is no saving grace.
The source of the nation’s woes can never provide the solution. We need a paradigm shift and this can only come about through a change in government.
Dr. Pang HC
August 9, 2010
“Wee Choo Keong of MDP stood on a PKR ticket in Wangsa Maju.”
And that is why so-called independent candidates standing on a Pakatan ticket should not be deemed as a third force.
anna brella
August 10, 2010
1. “Wee Choo Keong of MDP stood on a PKR ticket in Wangsa Maju.”
2. “Dr Jeyakumar of PSM stood on a PKR ticket in Sungai Siput.”
Sorry, I fail to see your logic so can you please explain how you have managed to put 1 and 2 together and arrive at that stated conclusion of yours, Dr Pang HC?
“Imagine Power To The People” John Lennon.
potblack
August 9, 2010
Bro Haris,
Spot on.Hope that PR leaders are aware of this article.
We the rakyat will not eat whatever PR leaders dish out for us.Much that I like to see change in this country,I will not vote for candidates who are of low breed,bodoh sombong and selfish.
BTW,I feel many would agree with me that MP Subang, YB Siva and Adun Bukit Lanjan,YB ELI has done their utmost best to deliver and carry out programmes which benifitted
the rakyat.No need to change of candidates for these 2 areas.
Lastly,wake up PR leaders. This article and it’s issues need to be address URGENTLY before the next GE.If the rakyat found out that there are infighting to grab seats to field candidates and worse if you are to field tainted and lousy candidates for us the rakyat,you better watch out.Period.
us their
Peter
August 9, 2010
The Nut Graph: “Let’s also look at the realities of our Parliament, where the legislative agenda is decided by the executive. Then, consider amending the Police Act on public assembly. Would the executive even table such changes in the first place? If an opposition or independent MP were to move a motion or a private member’s bill for the Act to be amended, would it see the light of day? In the past, similar attempts by opposition MPs have been thwarted.”
americk sidhu
August 9, 2010
Haris,
The theory is impeccable and cannot be faulted.
However, I think we need to approach this a little pragmatically.
Firstly we need about 200 outstanding citizens (not 146) who are eloquent, honourable, intelligent, unselfish, altruistic, dependable, financially independent, of good health, socially adaptable, racially unbiased, religiously tolerant, wordly wise, humble, of gentle manner, devoid of avarice, of the highest integrity and of course of humourous disposition.
Once you have identified 200 persons of such calibre (which is going to be a daunting task), you will then have to persuade each of them that, unbeknown to them, their real calling in life is to serve the nation by standing as Parliamentary candidates in GE13.
Once this is acheived, each of these budding MP’s must be allocated to the constituencies they intend conquering to affiliate themselves with the voters therein long before any election is announced so that they become familiar faces in these areas.
May I suggest you start off by asking for volunteers now.
Get these persons to send in resumes immediately so that they can be vetted and background checks done to ascertain whether the potential to back flip or flip flop is apparent.
Hopefully you will then be in a very good position to see whether a third force is a possibility and if it is, then we are really on the right track.
Please consider my humble suggestions in the spirit they are offered.
Shawn Tan
August 10, 2010
Hmm.. I be to differ. There is no need to identify 200 – 20 will do. If the 3rd force can secure about 10% of the parliamentary seats, that’s already a decent force for change, regardless. Get RPK to RUN!
Lumine Lucem
August 10, 2010
“..eloquent, honourable, intelligent, unselfish, altruistic, dependable, financially independent, of good health, socially adaptable, racially unbiased, religiously tolerant, wordly wise, humble, of gentle manner, devoid of avarice, of the highest integrity and of course of humourous disposition.”
I say, Americk. Got someone in mind?
vasantha
August 9, 2010
Dear Haris,
I am surprised that anybody would have misunderstood your article. You are like a breath of fresh air in our polluted political scene. You make a lot of sense to me.I think you put out your case well.
Peter
August 9, 2010
Haris you have my full support for this initiative if it won’t split the votes for the opposition.
My offer to campaign for you still stand if you stand for a parliamentary seat in 13th GE.
Kumarasen, Malaysia
August 9, 2010
I’m with you and would support your call. Please lead.
chinl wu
August 10, 2010
Yes, Third Force, especially PKR and DAP have this tendency ” to return favour to individual “, oh ! yeah! , this person has done so much for the party , as a reward let him or her stand for election. This notion of rewarding someone must stop.
The bitch Hee much be one this case. Harris , openly tell this Wee fellow, you are taking him on come GE 13. The people want this seat backfor PR. He can go ” fly kite ”
Yes, Harris create a 3rd Force , sorry YB LKS, YB Anwar and Datin Wan Azizah not to create 3 Cornered fight. The people just want to have the right candidate.
Anwaar
August 10, 2010
Uncle Haris,
Don’t forget about the international Malaysian community. I’m sure there are individuals who would love to come back to Malaysia and make a change in the parliamentary level.
jeevindra
August 10, 2010
This same question two years ago would have met with such approbation, it would not have been funny.
To wait any longer will only increase the clamour for effective representation beyond what can be provided by PR, if they are left to their own devices.
IMHO, it has moved beyond the need to merely remove the crooks (all of BN and the odd PR MP)from office, there is also a tremendous necessity for real leadership to fill the vacuum this country has been operating in for so long.
Cliche alert, with power comes responsibility, and civil society, since it can claim to be the direct representative of the urban voters, must have the highest possible standards in its selection criteria, with back up candidates on file, if the primary candidate does not stand up to scrutiny.
Massive undertaking in every sense of the word.
p.s. RPK if fate smiles on us and he is back in the country before the next GE, should not be placed as a candidate. None can campaign as he does, and none can provide the check and balance needed, as he can. Give him a big stick, and free reign to use it.
Ai Tze
August 10, 2010
The idea is sweet, naive and desperate.
Reminds me of me when I was a pimply 15-year-old being besotted by an older woman. All I knew was that I had to do something but I had not the faintest what to do.
Lumine Lucem
August 10, 2010
Imagining that the older woman was our country, and speaking as her, I would say “seize me, for I am weary from the years of abuse and neglect.”
Not suggesting that’s advice to 15 year old pimply boys, mind.
Aftermist
August 10, 2010
Harris,
It is a brilliant idea to vet all candidates.
However, we may found ourselves in dire to understand which age groups and segments of public that cannot be enticed and on what criteria.
My take on this to give a foremost priority for sourcing candidates who are wealthy with reasonable brain, calm and not too argumentative. I am biaised here for not giving equal opportunity to everyone but being practical to say that there is a risk in sourcing candidates based just on honesty or trustworthiness etc. In other word, there are exceptions like you, RPK or Dr Raffick. The problem here is the income of a meagre MP salary which is the root causes of all corruption evil. Until this is addressed, there are not many options for candidates to break the honesty, integrity salsa whatever.
I could be wrong here but there are evidences that many countries have reviewed and upped MPs salary to negate corruption. Based on this premise and understanding, I have segmented the candidates below;
1) Career Politicians – There are not many that I think from Pakatan rank. The career politicians mainly are from BN family members or cronies like KJ. Born rich and have a conscience for public welfare but not in the BN`s mould. Can PR vet candidates from this segment? low risk
2) Mid life maturity – This group normally within 40 to 50 age group may have gone through turbulent journey of life and have the nuances and beginning to understand the political games. This group have sufficient disposable income and possibly cannot be tempted with dosh. The problem here is the difficulty in getting candidates to commit to politics but still low risk group.
3) Grey matters- I have great respect and do not want to offend anyone above 50 years old but the reality is this group has been accustomed to thick and thin of BN idealogy of corruption.
Also, not many would welcome the new wind of change in PR. – Abundance of know how, experiences and have ample of time to do public services but very susceptible to dosh. The high risk segment, rewarding if we can find a gem in this group.
moses
August 10, 2010
One observation that rose from the discussion of this post was that the need to raise the level of political awareness among the people. Meaning to say, and as Haris puts it, which mean people are thinking.
Yes, he did provoked me at the least to look at the Nut Graph MP Watch.
The dilemma is real for the “rakyat”. On the one hand, the right thinking Malaysians yearn for political reform for a socially just and fair Malaysia for all Malaysians. This is reflected in a strong desire to see BN being kicked out from the federal government and allow the Pakatan Rakyat coalition to make reform on multiple fronts and issues that causing the rot in Malaysia.
On the other hand, the danger of a having an UMNO-BN holding on to power at all cost, by all means both fair and foul is a real risk to the security of the country. The image of a dying animal struggling ferociously to stay alive comes to mind.
With that in mind, and looking at the bigger picture for a better Malaysia, we have to seriously look at how to organize ourselves, obtain the necessary information and skills to recognize the appropriate persons, provide them with support in whatever ways possible and get ready for the next general election. Also, we have to constantly educate ourselves with whatever means possible of all possible dirty tricks from BN.
Since you have started it, are you vision limited to Petaling Jaya Selatan constituency or do you have more personalities spread out across Malaysia? What about people in rural Sarawak and Sabah? Right now, your idea is at the horizon, too far away for some, in fact I would say many, to see clearly or make out purposefully, though it is not without merit.
And lastly, whatever retorts you want to throw out, I will accept it in terms of educating myself and to open up to ideas for action.
Thank you.
p/s Dr Rafick has many well thought out analysis but right now BN in its current incarnation need to be put to sleep and it is the stumbling block for the well-being of all Malaysians and Malaysia itself.
moses
August 10, 2010
Errata
should be…people need to start thinking.
Thank you.
Lumine Lucem
August 10, 2010
I confess to misunderstanding your initial post. Now I understand this to be “PR do not have elected representatives of sufficient calibre and ability. It is up to us independent minded civil society activists to fill this vacuum in time for the next GE.”
OK, I’m with you there. But, unless the opposition parties give the ‘3rd Force’ a ‘free pass’ to stand, that can only be done by joining one of the opposition parties and working from the inside.
Would any party member accept a non-party member being parachuted in to stand? I think not, even with the blessing of party HQ.
At best what you can offer is to act as recruiting sergeant for them, and the pay-off is a minimum guarantee of a certain number of seats to fight.
Difficult-lah! By that time, everyone will be so sapped of energy and will. And that’s before winning a single seat!
Better to formulate a ‘common platform’ strategy where the ‘3rd force’ candidates pakat with each other on approach and issues, then go an join one of the opposition parties, communicating with each other from time to time.
Once elected, they promise to ‘account’ to a standing conference of ‘3rd force’ activists, say twice a year.
This way, they/we defeat anti-progressive forces within those parties, or in the short term, at least keep up dialogue and morale.
Jong
August 10, 2010
Hahaha, I think it’s about time we stop using “opposition”. We want change and soon they will take over Putra Jaya. Let’s call it “Pakatan Rakyat”, OK? 😀
Yes I agree with Lumine Lucem here – setting up this Third Force has to be handled with extreme care and not cause unnecessary suspicion and animosity within Pakatan Rakyat. Some existing PR politicians may not like the idea of sudden influx of “Third force” parachuting in thus reducing their chances for public office.
Are we to tell them they aren’t good enough – which we should, and that they don’t have the ‘cut’ for public office, and they’ll understand? Speak to PK, this has to be it, the only way for a better Malaysia!
Jong
August 10, 2010
oops sorry – correction last line..
“to PR, this has to be…”
Lumine Lucem
August 10, 2010
cheers Jong – to explain, I say ‘opposition’ because of present realities. PR are not in Government. But Pakatan Rakyat is not quite the same as ‘opposition’ as it does not include smaller parties. Furthermore, ‘PR’ only happened after the election, and seems to be, in may ways, a relationship of convenience.
wee
August 10, 2010
Hi Haris Yes i believe we should go for it Seek people with integrity would be my NO 1 criteria . We as voters are sometime to be blamed for we get who we vote for . Also many of us do not know what are the functions /roles of our MPs . we still want MPs who take cares of lonkangs and not speak out at INJUSTICE
Go for it bro !!
Jeremiah Liang
August 10, 2010
Since starting my blog 2 years ago, I have always called for a third force in Msian politics, starting with an intellectually non-partisan group of citizens.
Even in the US, the duopolistic hold of the Democratic and Republican party is eventually giving way to a third force represented by the tea party movement.
But just as we’r focused on the GE 13, we need to also watch out for and strategise against global trends taking place:
In the next five years, Malaysia is just one nation that will be faced with the choice of following the One World Government that is being planned in the last few decades. I believe all the injustices and lack of judicial fairness in this country has been allowed to happen with the support of the global powers (see how Obama was ready to sit with our PM in washington) so that ordinary citizens will be so fed up that we will give our support to a one world government.
This clearly means that (1) the BN government will be favoured by the globalists to maintain power temporarily
(2) if PR takes over in GE 13, the globalists will ensure that PR does a worse or equally bad job of ruling the country. All they need to do is to just watch the country disintegrate by itself e.g. through factionalism, money politics, Islamic radicalism etc without lifting a finger (though they will make alot of politically correct sound bites about human rights, etc).
So I will add a further required quality for a candidate:
a working knowledge of current global affairs and ability to analyse where Malaysia is positioned in current geopolitics.
Moses
August 10, 2010
Mr Jeremiah
May I visit your blog?
Thank you.
Jeremiah Liang
August 11, 2010
Hi Moses,
My blog is
http://www.jeremiahliang.blogspot.com/
Pls do visit and share your views. Another blog which is less frequently updated but more specialised in economics is:
http://asianeconomies.blogspot.com/
waynewei7
August 10, 2010
Like others, i had same thought with most peoples in the initial post.
But come to 2nd post, it creates more brainstorming.
I admit i was dominated with the word “third force” which i thought 3rd force must be a group against the current two, or at least bring -ve impact for the PR.
Earlier, I’m too much into how,what,when,and which question to the idea which end up with “it is a impossible or its a not so good for current situation” results.
I think i forgot the WHY. When i found the WHY, and answer for where which when how all is possible now.:)
For me now, the “3rd force” will be a advantages no longer a vote splitter. for PR, having “3rd force” is an advantages over BN have none(kind of added value). For peoples, “3rd force” fight for grassroots benefit,not party’s or own.For the country, when PR manage to march in Putrajaya, “3rd force” play significant role avoid newborn of BN ver2.0.
when figure out the WHY, thousands ways to archive it and i think lot of comments here are useful.
Thanks Harris for educate us by throwing out such idea.
edyes
August 10, 2010
Apabila Pencetus Huru-Hara Digelar Wira…
shakuntala
August 10, 2010
Following this is truly interesting….so many people showing interest.
Malaysia is precious and important and worth all our weight in gold to preserve and help make the change…
Mr. Americk Sidhu’s healthy candidate is a reminder…citizen candidates should also preferably be young. Otherwise there will be by-election after by-election!
And Mr. Jeremiah Liang’s mention of a changing and many-sided world, so true.
My2cen
August 10, 2010
Haris,
I think we should also set an agenda of what we, the Rakyat, wants to see changed/reformed with a change of the executive at Putrajaya. We must set an objective so that the new MPs, (our) Independents and all across PR, know what’s expected of their term in office, and it’s not just to run for election and wrest power from BN. That’s only the first hurdle. Let’s lay out the issues, what we want corrected and set the milestones for them, so that we can achieve some real results.
We must also send a strong message to PR that they cannot just put any dungus to run this time, as we are serious to install them in Putrajaya, and we want them to field the best, from within or from People’s Parliament choices.
sampalee
August 10, 2010
At the end it is still GOD’s will.Man proposes,God disposes.The scripture state cleary what is in store for the world and the ending to be faced by those who opposes God’s commandments.I can only pity those who embrace the concepts of bn with their concerted effort to cheat and rob the rakyats.
The third force or not is not up to pr or even Haris,it is GOD who moves things.Why not simply accept and submit.Inshaallah.
Jong
August 11, 2010
Can we keep GOD out of this discussion? He has too many things to look into.
I was taught in school that GOD will only help those who help themselves, no? Let’s get back to The Third Force.
Parli-Man
August 10, 2010
Haris,
I think you should stand in PJS. If you yourself are too humble to offer yourself then how do you expect others to do so.
Parli-Man
August 10, 2010
Another thing to add. How sure are you that Anwar will listen to this so called 3rd force candidates that the rakyat proposes. I certainly am sure that Anwar will give us the run around and eventually he will choose his usual ex umno link candidates and history will repeat itself as you rightfully predict.
romerz
August 11, 2010
Dear Haris,
Sorry for not getting back to you on this subject yesterday but in any case your explanation with this posting would have nullified my objections which I raised with your previous posting on the 3rd force.
But I still maintain that the majority of our electorate are not sophisticated enough to understand where you are coming from and thus would only cause the situation to be more complicated in their minds, and this only works to UMNO/BN’s favor.
Ask yourself this question, why is it that people like you and other “more qualified” potential parliamentarians avoid being partisan, which is a ready made platform to fight the excesses of UMNO/BN? I believe it is not because we don’t care but we understand that we cannot operate in a system which requires us to “prove” our loyalty first and also that of fear before telling them what the nation needs. Like it or not, independents have never done well in this country when we have banners and buntings over ideas!
In simple terms, the system is broken and we cannot function well until that broken system is fixed. This is where we need the PR to be as strong as possible to oust those who broke it in the first place and repair the damage done. But will they, if I read you correctly?
Assuming they do, only then can we function effectively being the third force which prevents one side from becoming too powerful and one side from becoming too pathetic. Who knows, one day we may have to support UMNO/BN to get their act together and be a good opposition!
Now is not the time to confuse the poor electorate any further, IMHO.
Having said that, I like your idea of an MP watch and to know who is going to be fielded in my constituency at the next GE, to represent me for the next 5 years. To make it even more interesting, we should not only watch our reps from PR but those from BN as well (if they are able to announce now their candidates as well).
Let me get the ball rolling on my rep at P48-Bukit Bendera, YB Liew Chin Tong from DAP.
As far as I’m concerned YB Liew is doing the job I expect him to. He is raising good questions in parliament (mostly defense issues since he was assigned to the joint shadow committee on defense) and he is also doing good work on the ground.
I did not know him personally until after March 2008 but since then I searched him out and have met him on a couple of times and found him to be highly intelligent and approachable, made easy by the fact that he has a blog, a Facebook page, an email group which his office sends out updates of what he is doing from time-to-time.
Not only that, he responds to my SMS and phone calls (though I try to use the latter less often as I understand his hectic schedule) within the same day or the next!
P48-Bukit Bendera is in good hands!
Haris, your blog is aptly named – The People’s Parliament. Why not break it up into 222 different parts where each of your reader can comment on the MP they have or wish to have?
amd
August 11, 2010
Besides working as MP for constituency I think we should also assess the portfolio of that MP. Some in Selangor failed miserably on that. Is being a politician a professional calling? You’d be surprised by this answer. Sometimes you do wonder about their skills set : )
amd
August 11, 2010
ya haris i think you should run–at least for a term. and let your readers know what you need in terms of support now.
charis14
August 11, 2010
The exercise of publicly identifying PR MPs/ADUNs who are not up to the mark may backfire. It provides BN the fodder to criticise them and some may be encouraged to jump. Also, it may be unfair in certain cases esp in BN-controlled states since they do not receive fundings for community projects.
Kongkor
August 12, 2010
I am in full support of this initiative and here’s my take in my blog.
http://kongkor.blogspot.com/2010/08/3rd-force-watch-this-is-darn-good-idea.html
Bigjoe
August 13, 2010
Honestly, you, RPK, Malik Imtiaz, are the best of the third force. Certaintly there are very good people in NGO who qualify but they don’t want to do politics. Even someone like you and RPK don’t want to run.
no more morons
September 4, 2010
We fr PJ Selatan will be voting PAS next round, regardless of our faith!
What we are saying is:
NO to MP Hee
NO to ADUN Edward Lee
MP Hee is wholly reliant & subservient to Ed Lee’s opinions & wishes as Edward Lee is the King Maker & Puppet Master of Hee.
Hee is practically catatonic!
From our experience living in a community in PJ Selatan (who stupidly voted for BOTH these idiots hoping for a change), we hv only experienced 1st hand how
1. Edward Lee is arrogant & callous to the needs of our communities
2. Ed Lee is well known as a hypocrite (ask ppl who knows him from yonks ago!.
He serves his own agenda, his religion, his own immediate domain – to the extent of ignoring the law for these reasons
If Ed Lee had indeed been serving yr cause, ask yourself the following questions “Would Edward Lee have served you or your community if..”
1. You are not a Christian
2. You are not asking favors from a Christian organization or an influential person who knows him
3. You are not living in his vicinity
So NO to Catatonic Hee
NO to Hypocritical Lee
Mr. Mickey
October 11, 2010
Why don’t you do us a favor, Haris?
List out YOUR 3RD FORCE CANDIDATES and let the people decide _before_ the election.
Then we voters can compare what your 3rd force is offering against those from PR and BN.
Your words sound hollow, Haris.
Your assumption is full of holes.
You assume that ALL the candidates from the 3rd force are way better than what BN or PR can offer.
Tell you what, Haris, show us what you guys got, before you continue on your sales pitch. We rakyats are no longer stupid and blind voters no more.
oneyear12topic
December 4, 2010
For visitors who comment ” If Ed Lee had indeed been serving yr cause, ask yourself the following questions “Would Edward Lee have served you or your community if..”
3. You are not living in his vicinity ”
you are right , you can check the answer from http://www.thoughts.com/oneyear12topic/skimusiaemas-secret
http://www.thoughts.com/oneyear12topic/justice-for-beng-hock
Section 01 . What is Lee Kee Hiong and Lee Wye Wing secret ?
Section 02 . What is Ean Yong Hian Wah secret ?
Section 03a . Who is pH and IQuit in MP Serdang Teo Nie Ching blog ?
Section 03b . What is Kajang councillor Tan Boon Wah secret ?
Section 04 . What happen last 2 days before Beng Hock die ?
Section 05 . What is Ronnie Liu , the innocent man BIG secret ?
BN is Bad , PR is more worst
Need 3Force because PR is Gila
January 14, 2011
http://charleshector.blogspot.com/2011/01/20-cents-per-plastic-bag-eye-wash-pro.html
Green purpose is to reduce wastage = nothing worng to tell people to use less plastic . Unfortunately , what done by P.Pinang and Selangor PR is not Green , but GILA . Talk example , if you previusoly throw rubbish using plastic 3 times per week , it is good but if you now about 2 times per week .
But what our Gila PR is by hoping people totally not using plastics .
Kindly note poor rakyat STILL have to pay assessment to the rasuah council for wastage expenses , and now RM 0.20 sen per plastics bang .
If you previously shopping twice per week , each times shopping regardless of what you buy , there is must plastics to package it , and now you shopping one per week , inst already reduce 1 plastic ? And yet they still charge RM 0.20 per plastics .
So our rubbish Lim Guan Eng and Khalid , plase dont tell us it is green , just tell
us want to siphon money money . At least this reason tally with your rubbish standard .
This one lagi crazy
http://www.starproperty.my/PropertyScene/TheStarOnlineHighlightBox/9466/0/0
Morning market traders in Puchong are shocked to discover that the waste management fee
and rental has increased four-fold, from RM360 a year to RM1,490.
Previously, the one-off fee also included the yearly licence charge but now they have to fork out another RM30 for the permit.
They feel the drastic increase would be a huge burden, especially for those occupying
more than one lot and hope the Subang Jaya Municipal Council (MPSJ) would reconsider the decision. At a meeting with the Taman Kinrara 1 morning market traders, Kinrara assemblyman Teresa Kok, Subang Jaya Municipal Council (MPSJ) licensing director Ismail Salim and councillor Pooi Weng Keong explained that the increase was a state-wide exercise to standardise the fees.
” You dengar tak – standardlise ,
Our opinion , standardlise their kepala otak yang sudah tak suiman ”
“ According to the calculation, we have to pay RM4 per day per lot for the waste management.
That adds up to about RM22,000 a month for our market. Does it cost so much? Tee asked.
Butcher Lee Kien Fun, who has been trading at the market for more than 20 years, said the increase was unacceptable. “ We don’t earn much and if we pass on the increase to the consumers, we will lose them for sure.
How are we going to support our school-going children?” he asked.
At another meeting with chairmen of five traders associations in Puchong, Selangor MCA Youth chief
Dr Kow Cheong Wei said the traders were puzzled when they could not renew their licences last December, and now they received the news about the increase.