By Singa Terhormat
___________________
First of all, let me declare that I am a Muslim.
I am no scholar of Islam but I have been given some measure of intellect by Almighty God, and it is in gratitude for that gift that this is written.
This is about Islam and its teachings with regard to the issue of whether non-Muslims can use the word “Allah”.
Invariably in doing so, it is unavoidable to relate some theological aspects of Islam that may or may not offend the teachings of other religions.
If it does so, please understand that it is not my intention to do so but merely to illustrate and substantiate the content of this article.
Islam teaches that the highest legislative authority on Earth is God.
After that comes the Holy Prophet (pbuh).
No legislation passed by Man can override or conflict with what God and/or the Holy Prophet (pbuh) has decided.
Surah Al-Ahzab verses 33: 36 of the Holy Qur’an has been interpreted to read:
“It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.”
Where a matter has been decided by God and the Prophet therefore, Muslims have no choice but to obey.
God in the Holy Qur’an warns Mankind against simply declaring this or that to be lawful or unlawful where it goes against what God and/or the Prophet have decided.
Surah Al Tawba verse 31 of the Holy Qur’an has been interpreted to read:
“ They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no god save Him. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!”
The Prophet (pbuh) explained this verse by saying:
“It was not that they (Jews and Christians) worshipped these people, but rather whatever they made permissible for them, they believed it to be permissible and whatever they forbade, they believed to be unlawful. ” (Tirmidhi)
Hence if a Muslim is to take as lawful what God and His Prophet have made unlawful or if a Muslim is to take as unlawful what God and His Prophet have made lawful, then that Muslim has committed the one unforgivable sin of having lords besides God.
Having established thus that it is not open for a Muslim to go against any decision of God and His Prophet and that if he does so he then commits the most unforgivable of sins of giving partners to God, let us then examine whether God and the Prophet had anything to say or whether they had decided on the matter of non-Muslims using the word “Allah”.
Surah Az Zukhruf verse 87 of the Holy Qur’an has been interpreted to read :
“And if thou ask them who created them, they will surely say: Allah. How then are they turned away?”
In this verse “them” refers to the unbelievers or, in the context of the Holy Qur’an, the non-Muslims. Hence here God is saying that when the non-Muslims ask who created them they will use the word “Allah” in reply.
Likewise Surah An Ankabut verse 63 of the Holy Qur’an has been interpreted to read:
“And if thou wert to ask them: Who causeth water to come down from the sky, and therewith reviveth the earth after its death? They verily would say: Allah.”
Again “them” here refers to the unbelievers or, in the context of the Holy Qur’an, the non-Muslims.
In Surah Al Hajj verse 40 of the Holy Qur’an, its interpretation is even more interesting. It reads:
“For had it not been for Allah’s repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down.”
There you have it.
The name of Allah mentioned in churches.
Who tells the Muslims this?
Why, God Himself.
What is the Prophet’s attitude towards Christians? It is exemplified in what is known as the Treaty Of Najran made in 631 AD and also known as the Charter of Rights made to the Christians of Najran. (The original document is preserved in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul)
In 628 AD, a delegation from St. Catherine’s Monastery came to Prophet Muhammed and requested his protection. He responded by granting them a charter of rights, extracts of which read as follows:
“This is a message from [Prophet] Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.
Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion [in religion] is to be on them.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
Their Churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.
No one of the nation (of Muslims) is to disobey this covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”
Note that this charter of rights is to last “till the Last Day.” Note also that it imposes no conditions on Christians to alter their beliefs. It is enough that they are Christians.
Note too the Prophet’s father’s name—“Abdullah”—meaning the servant or slave of Allah.
He was given this name and it establishes that Allah was in use before the Holy Qur’an was revealed.
There is some basis for claims too that other religions use “Allah”.
In Sikhism one of the names by which Guru Nanak Sahib refers to God is “Allah”.
In Hindu Scripture, in Rig Veda Book 2 Hymn 1 Verse 2 “Ila” is used, which is the same as the Arabic “Illah” or “Allah”.
Further, the Arab Christians and Jews use “Allah” freely without hindrance.
Can something in the religious context be haram in one area and halal in another?
Here we have so-called Muslims insisting that non-Muslims cannot use “Allah”.
Do they not know the Holy Qur’an then?
Do they not know Islam?
Do they then take partners besides God and commit the one unforgivable sin?
Do they not know that the Prophet has warned:
“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.” (Abu Dawud)
The People's Parliament 
Pete
January 14, 2013
For once I read something intelligent. Thank you. Sadly, in Bolehland, not many umno Muslim will think like you. The use of the word “Allah” has never been an issue in any Muslim country in the world except the one run by umno. It is made into an issue by umNO and now PAS wants to join them.
Ellese
January 15, 2013
In non Moslems countries Allah has been used to refer exclusively to Muslims god.just see the dictionaries. This is worldwide. In bm Allah has always referred to as exclusively the Moslems god. Why are the Christians making a big fuss over this?
Sham
January 17, 2013
@Ellese – your argument sounds no different from those Christians who keep repeating ‘ but Allah’ is just the Arab word for God. There is no Moslem God or Christian God etc – there is just God/Allah! The Christians are making a big fuss about this becos the EastMalaysian Christians have been using the word Allah to refer to God in their bible for over 400 years. The West Malaysian dunggus are trying to force them to change the way they worship. Someone should have told them all these conditions before they agreed to join Malaysia. The Sabahans and Sarawakians may have chosen to join the Philippines instead.
Ellese
January 18, 2013
Please don’t censor this haris.
The argument of 400 years are false. My write on this was censored earlier. See my blog for the censored write. Christianity was introduced in Sabah in 1880 to the Hakkas. no bm bible was used and certainly Allah was not used.
In Sarawak it was introduced by the Brooke’s in 1820s and even then bm was not used. In 1927 Australian missionary started preaching the bumis ( then known as BEM and now known as SIB). They spread to Sabah around 1937. In 1950s they thought its appropriate to use bm and thus embarked on bible translation with Indon missionaries. So no history of 400 years.
In peninsular the non Muslims until now don’t use bm bible. The orang Asli was only introduced to Christianity in 1930s.
The 400 years argument are false argument. Munshi may have translated. Indon may use it. But we don’t use bm bible. It’s a recent phenomena. The Malays however have been using it for ages to refer exclusively to the Muslim god.
najib manaukau
January 14, 2013
The scumbags and parasites from Umno are acting as though they are Allah !
First, they passed legislations on how to become a Malay just so all the half breeds like the grand son of the pariah from Kerala, the shenanigan Mahathir, can all legally steal in the name of a Malay and above all he can become the P.M. of Malaysia.
Then this Syed from whose is of Arab origin just like the shenanigan can go on to become the richest Malay after the shenanigan. At the same time whatever this Syed gets he is getting them in the name of a Malay, this way all the Malays will have no qualms about it.
Just wondering
January 14, 2013
Not just Umno, now even PAS is saying the word is the monopoly of muslims. And to they think that Chinese will surely vote for them. Perhaps PAS actually want to help BN win the elections. I am sure many non muslims will not vote for PR now.
Malaysian
January 15, 2013
No, Just wondering, as far as my entourage is concerned, our vote still goes to PR! If I have a choice between MCA candidate and PAS candidate, my vote will still be for the latter!
My TOP priority is to get rid of a govt that practices racism, persecution, selective prosecution, abuse of power, corruption, etc.
In short, ABU !!!!
ServiceB4self
January 18, 2013
I wonder what would happen when PAS sabotage all candidates from DAP in the upcoming GE and places their grassroot support only to Malay/Muslim candidates?
At the end of the day, PAS will hold the majority in Pakatan and this will ensure Hadi becomes the PM should PR wins the election.
Well Malaysia post 2013 – no cheongsam, only sing patriotic songs, alcoholic beverages will be curtailed, all races will be subject to khalwat charges, no shrines in you own homes, TV shows will be heavily censored ….. Taliban state here we come!
Ellese
January 15, 2013
Scumbags include PAS now?
ServiceB4self
January 18, 2013
The legal definition of “Malay” is in the Federal Constitution and I am sure if you had checked your facts, it was drafted by a Mat Salleh.
This definition is somewhat similar to how “Romans” were defined during the Roman empire. So long as one speaks Roman, subscribes to the Roman culture …. that person is a Roman no matter he is black, white or brown, References to genetics where not relevant.
Likewise, Malays as a race has always accepted various people to be Malays. That’s why its so common that the phrase “Masuk Melayu” is often used.
In recent history, the late Tun Omar Ong Yoke Lin one of the founders of MCA, has been defined as a Malay despite his genetic roots. That’s because he speaks Malay, practises the Malay culture and is a Muslim.
The bottom line, your genetics play no part in becoming a Malay under the very legislation you loath. I wonder who is a racist then.
Gene Yen
January 14, 2013
I believe HRH Sultan Selangor has been misled by MAIS big-time.
I hope HRH Sultan Selangor will get to read this if, and when, he surfs the net on his own…
I hope he doesn’t need his Advisors’ “advice”, nor permission, to do so…
Ellese
January 15, 2013
Hrh is correct. It’s haris oooops singa who misleads with half quoted verse. Typical singa misleading the people.
Paul Warren
January 14, 2013
Thank you for what I see is the first almost complete and best argument given on this subject that also carries with it the authority that it desesrves. I would honestly like for a point for point response from the nay sayers.
Having said that, I have theorised that this whole issue was manufactured for giving UMNO the oneupmanship that it sort from amongst the Malay Muslims in the country over PAS. Also because they had the two-thirds majority they easily passed the necessary laws at the State level. If they honestly had meant it to be taken seriously they could have passed it in Parliament as well and changed the constitution accordingly as well.
But then, in this foray, innocent Muslims, including those from PAS, bought into it and saw it as something that stood them over non-Muslims, especially Christians. Being able to enforce this over Christians gives them a superiority that they are after all supposed to exercise in any case given that there is a Muslim majority and it is a Muslim led government and administration that we have. They get their authorities also from their holy books.
The excuse that Malays/Muslims get confused is such a manufactured excuse that even the most illiterate will scoff at. Only the eveil intended will subscribe to that. On this matter, the Malays instead should feel proud that as a Muslim race, they have been more true to Islam than many others as despite separation and influences of other religions, they keep their faith. Just see the Cape Malays and the Ceylon Malays. They still identify themselves by their race and religion despite losing the language.
Ellese
January 15, 2013
No this is an article which uses half a verse and delete the remaining part to mislead people like you. In terms of academic writing this is an F grade. You must not distort which the article did with the quranic verses.
telur2
January 14, 2013
Allahuakbar!
bw
January 14, 2013
You meant these Trinity gods can be called by the name Allah, the one God ? You think McD may permit KFC use McNugget to identify it’s finger lickin good chicken? Dont let your intelligence fool you and Einstein was not a Muslim either
Another Anak Bangsa Malaysia
January 14, 2013
bw,
Well done!!
McD and KFC are human-made concepts.
You have just reduced the discussion to human-made concepts.
Congratulations 🙂
P.S. I have no idea why you mentioned Einstein was not a Muslim, so I will, therefore, casually mention that fish don’t use chopsticks.
bw
January 14, 2013
Thanks, I tried to make it simple enough for everybody with limited knowledge to understand, Sorry to Einstein if I made him the wrong example.
Another Anak Bangsa Malaysia
January 14, 2013
bw,
EVERYBODY has limited knowledge.
To make matters worse, that limited knowledge is learnt from another human, e.g. the knowledge you are trying to share is from you – a human.
In this case, it is merely us humans who are arguing about who can or cannot use the word “Allah”.
For all we know, maybe NOBODY is allowed to use it.
Sam
January 15, 2013
bw, “Trinity gods”? Never heard of them. What is the name of the religion that teaches this “Trinity gods”? Or is it your learned conclusion that Christians/Catholics believe in “Trinity gods”? If so, please be enlightened that no Christian/Catholic on earth believes in more than 1 God. For the past 2,000 years, their unwavering declaration dulu, kini dan selama-lamanya, is that God is One and that there is none else. Don’t believe? Read the Bible for yourself (in whatever language you choose). If you happen to discover anywhere in it that there is more than one God, don’t hesitate to post your findings.
Christians may differ in their attempts at verbalizing the nature of that 1 God. This is an internal issue and of no concern to those outside of Christianity (just as whether the Sunni or Shia hold the correct interpretation of the Quran, is of no concern to those outside Islam).
bigjoe99
January 14, 2013
The more this issue goes on, the more my believe that man cannot be trusted with power of religion. The main excuse given for banning the word is what ‘confuse the UMMAH’ – how is it those that take his view don’t get it that its not a problem with either religion OR the UMMAH? Its a problem with man’s power with religion i.e., man’s institution themselves…Its so obvious and yet, all those talking about it won’t even look it at the eye..
James Nakason
January 14, 2013
I salute you Bro … very well been explained and said!
shakuntala
January 14, 2013
So Singha Terhormat, can I take it that the Muslims who have taken on themselves to ban the use of Allah by the non-muslims, have committed a most unforgiveable sin and must they come out to tell the non-muslims how sorry they are and also ask Allah’s forgiveness, or else they will be complained against on the Last Dau/Dayof Judgement.
The Last Day of Judgement always is so frightening.
Don’t play the fool with the Power that is called Allah. He hides HImself but He is Omnipresent, Omnopotent..
Many thanks Singha, that lesson was most interesting, most knowledgeable.. I actually think that you are so well versed in the Holy Quran, how did you manage this formidable task…..May the grace of Allah be with you.You are the best educator of Islam, that we non-muslims have and you set us free and make us so happy.
President Sukarno of Indonesia was respected, for his love and non-interference of Christians and Christianity and was bestowed with the Vatican’s highest order, by the then Pope,on a non-christian.Think the award was reciprocated.
Even today Indonesia is spoken about so laudably for its respect of Christianity.
Bravo Singha Terhormat!!!! Three cheers!
Ellese
January 15, 2013
Singa as usual quotes half a verse and misleads on the interpretation. Just like the stats.
Jahamy
January 14, 2013
Amin
Another Anak Bangsa Malaysia
January 14, 2013
Singa Terhormat,
I am not sure if UMNO-brand Islam has the same Prophet and the same Qur’an. 🙂
Ellese
January 15, 2013
Please note even PAS agrees with this. It’s an overwhelming view of the issue. Lets hold a referendum to settle the issue.
Alice
January 14, 2013
BW, McD can’t use KFC’s name and vice versa because both are trademarked names. Is Allah a trademarked word exclusive to Muslims? If so, please furnish certificate.
bw
January 14, 2013
Alice, for the Muslims, the certificate for Allah name is in the Quran 112 .
NOW, SHOW ME THE CERTIFICATE IN BIBLES OF MAJOR CHRISTIAN COUNTRIES, VATICAN PREFERRED
http://quran.com/112
Say, “He is Allah , [who is] One,
Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent.”
Another Anak Bangsa Malaysia
January 15, 2013
bw,
The Qur’an was written by a human.
That video you have referred to was produced by a human.
You are a human.
How do you know what Allah wants in this particular matter?
Sham
January 17, 2013
@bw, the Arab Christians LONG BEFORE MOHD used the word Allah to refer to THEIR GOD. So maybe MOHD just plagiarized the word???
malaysialover
January 14, 2013
don’t you think that the holy people in malaysia who made this ruling do not know the logic of what you have written?
they deliberately choose to take their stand to become defenders of their faith and to gain political mileage with their masters…..
who cares about what is right anymore……..it is what that rouses the irrational feelings so that they can stay in power is what is important!
Malaysianatheart
January 14, 2013
Yo bro, are you sure that “non-believers” in the context of the Qur’an refers to “non-muslims”?? The Qur’an and even in the Treaty of Najran, people of other faiths are referred to as non-muslims or as Christians, Jews etc. The Prophet has been specific in his references.
“Non- believers” are really atheists in the context of the Qur’an – and even the bible and the Gita, the Old Testament etc – isn’t it?. You might want to re-visit the scriptures and you may find that it all makes a lot more sense if we ascribe to HIM and the Prophet enough wisdom not to have confused the two. If you take it that “non-believers”, as you suggest, refers to non-muslims, then it may turn out that neither HE nor the Prophet makes any reference at all to atheists in the scriptures. That wouldn’t sit very well with the wisdom that we expect from God!
Like you, I am no religious scholar, not even terribly prayerful – so, its just a thought. I have no doubt that you will very quickly shoot me down with some enlightening prose – if you can!!
Kenny
January 14, 2013
Good man!
I’m an Agnostic. I don’t know if you are a Singha, but Terhormat you surely are!
This is one fell-swoop of an article, a copy of which should be sent to all Christians, Sikhs and Muslims, especially to those politically professed gurus whose seeming vocation is to play god over the people.
Could someone please save the gurus and sultan from Prophet Muhammad’s complaint on the Last Day of Judgement?
bw
January 14, 2013
Alice, for the Muslims, the certificate for Allah name is in the Quran 112 .
NOW, SHOW ME THE CERTIFICATE IN BIBLES OF MAJOR CHRISTIAN COUNTRIES, VATICAN’s PREFERRED
http://quran.com/112
Say, “He is Allah , [who is] One,
Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent.”
Erik
January 14, 2013
This video explains it well.
bw
January 15, 2013
No Alice and here come Erik. I asked an original copy and you forward me a youtube video. Nice of you. These Arabic Bible of Genesis is a translation, meaning that it is not an original copy. Therefore the translation depended upon the translator. The translators and the chief priest can translate the word ‘God’ to ‘Trinity’ or “Ilah” (the original word for God in arabic) but instead they chose to use the name ‘Allah’ (the one) for the word God. A word and a name has a different concept in it…Also, it contradict the Trinity 3 gods concept in Christian itself as Allah is the name of the One God. I give you the benefit of the doubts…..To test and make it clear, next time you christians go to churches, ask your priests, how many Gods being worshipped in that Church: 3 or 1 or 3+1? Make sure you worship the right God and use the correct name to identify your God. If you admitted that you have a limited knowledge, pls use KFC and McDonald as an analogy. Instead of misleading yourself in exercising your choice, I hope your IQ will help you in calculating the God and match it with the suitable name. Bye.
Jack
January 15, 2013
The Christian faith is a monotheist faith. There is no 3 gods in Christianity. The doctrine of the Trinity was decided at the council of Nicea in the 4th century. That council was before Prophet Muhammed’s era. Yet, the Jews and the Christians are called People of the Book and Arab Christians were already using Allah. Perhaps we need to step back and understand why.
Cheers.
Sabah Arise!
January 14, 2013
Haris, how come all those learned religious scholars missed out those verses you highlighted when they came out with a statement? Surely they are more well versed than most of us.What’s happening here?
Ellese
January 15, 2013
Singa misleads with half quoted verse.
shakuntala
January 14, 2013
Please don’t degenerate like PAS. ..don’t label yourselves, it is a mere convenience. Die-hard perpetrators of religions are deep down arrogant people. They think they are the greatest……a lot of wallop in religions
We are all just human beings, prone to sin. If any religion is that perfect, we would not have wars, poverty, hunger, violence and so on.still persisting.
Abusyukri
January 14, 2013
Inna deena indalLahi islam (addeenul haq)
Wala tabarrujn tabarruj jahilliah …
It will stick out like a sore thumb..
Jack
January 15, 2013
Just in case people do not know, the council of Nicea was convened during the time of Emperor Constantine in the 4th century. Thus, in 628 AD, the Christian doctrine already has the Trinity. So, to talk about the Trinity as though it is a new doctrine post Prophet Muhammed’s era is incomprehensible.
Sam
January 15, 2013
Excellent points Singa. Are you “correct” as per Islam? Malaysianatheart seems to think not. But Muslims globally seem inclined to devote themselves to arguing robustly over stuff like this.
But Singa you have missed the crucial point. The Malaysian Constitution (not the Quran) is the Supreme law of the land. It declares that Islam is the “religion” of the Federation. For the past 56 years this Constitution, though repeatedly mauled, has unwaveringly granted every non-Muslim Malaysian the right to practice his/her own religion (even if they choose to worship a fish called Halla who eats with chopsticks). Therefore, no Malaysian, not even a Constitutional Monarch, much less a Home Minister, can claim the authority to legislate what his non-Muslim fellow-citizen may or may not call his/her preferred Deity (or collection of deities). And to those still flapping their flowing robes on this issue for the past 2 years, it’s an open-and-shut case of “ultra-vires”, you self-made eunuchs!
Unfortunately, there is this pathetically mischievous segment of our society, of the ilk of bw and his “finger lickin” chicken-friends. Five times a day they harbour grandiose notions of piety. In between, they venture to entertain the rest of the nation with keris-waving, cow-head stomping, butt-shaking, tear-gassing, gate-crashing non-muslim events or debating over some dude’s butt-hole. When the general populace tires of all that, ’tis the season to pounce on a word in non-Muslim scriptures/magazines and scream “conspiracy”. They just can’t keep their collective vestigial proboscis out of others’ religious preferences. To these long-nosed cretins, I say, the Constitution was here before you. So If you don’t like the Constitution, make like a tree and leave!
bw
January 15, 2013
I wonder why when Malaysian miNority christians defending their arguments , need to screaming their rights in the Constitution of a democratic country … but when maJority muslims defending their opinion are called mischievous ? Don’t push your luck too far Sam.
Sam
January 15, 2013
bw, I’ll try to be as objective as possible.
Muslims and the nons each have their own subjective arguments and counter arguments in this issue. Each side is based partly on facts, partly on respective scripture, and driven by perceived fears and/or hidden agenda. This is called a stalemate, bw. That’s why we all have to step onto a common ground to resolve this issue.
If you felt that this is a majority vs minority issue, don’t forget, the nons are the majority to the north and south of us, and also globally. So how then? But you will say we are in Malaysia, right? So what makes us “Malaysia”? Bingo! Our Constitution.
I propose (not scream) that the common ground is the Constitution that I assume, ALL Malaysians are sworn to uphold. I know I am “push my luck ” in hoping you will see the point.
Another Anak Bangsa Malaysia
January 15, 2013
Sam,
A fish called Halla who eats with chopsticks??? Post pics?? 🙂
Cripes, that is gonna be the last time I try to make up something nonsensical about fish not needing chopsticks.
I knew I should have left it at my original thought which was “jellyfish don’t use chopsticks” but then I decided that jellyfish had tentacles which COULD possibly be used to hold implements.
Sam
January 15, 2013
Jellyfish….! Oh migosh! Don’t get me started on the jellyfish god………
annabrella
April 21, 2013
I am ROFLing…….Ya Allah!!
“Imagine Power To The People” John Lennon.
shakuntala
January 15, 2013
Bravooooooooooooooo Sam!! for giving our sacred Constitution its respect. I still like our Constitution, altered, pruned, shed as it has been, of its sacred laws!
Ellese
January 15, 2013
I’ve done my rebuttal which I hope singa oops haris will publish. You all are deluded by haris oops singa argument.
This article shows the shallowness of the writer on the Quran and usul fiqh. You cannot quote half a verse and spin the meaning for the whole verse. Zukhruf doesn’t mean Allah permits it the use of Allah. Though it shows that previous people has used the name of Allah as their god, but the surah clearly states that all of them have misused the name of Allah to associate with other things which are wrong to the Muslims. The surah clearly shows we Muslims must be circumspect with these moves.
Please don’t censor. I’ve laid out the issue. A good read is by Anas zubedy. Just google it.singa misleads all the time and not painting the full view of things for the purpose of showing other Muslims are stupid. This is disdainful.
Sabahan 18
January 15, 2013
Singa,
At the outset, allow me to give you mad props for using your God-given intelligence in trying to understand, and with that understanding, and explain the issue at hand.
While I applaud you for trying, it is most unfortunate that, I, too, a Muslim and ‘no scholar’ like your good self, have to agree with both Malaysianatheart and Sam above.
Before I go further, let me state here that, personally, I have nothing against the usage of Allah by Non-Muslms, but looking at the intent and brouhaha of the proponents of such usage, I fell that there is mala fide on their part.
Anyways, as per Malaysianatheart’s contention, I agree that the Qur’an is very specific in mentioning ‘nasranis and yahudis’ and while I am not going to debate here and explain the actual context of the verses you quoted, suffice to say, you got it wrong.
As for Sam’s points, we are not an Islamic country, and that it is the Federal Constitution that is the supreme law of the land. Again, I have to state here that you missed the plot entirely.
I do not know whether it is the hatred towards the ruling government – something that I share with you – that is keeping you from seeing it from an objective perspective or your points are spelt out as an honest misunderstanding of, not only the verses you quoted – per Malaysianatheart – but also the bigger picture – as per Sam’s.
If anyone really care to go into the root issue, and if one is truly open in their hearts, this ‘controversy’ has become too politicized.
I’m a Sabahan and I can tell you this: Christian missionaries have been using ‘Allah’ to proselytize in my state. I ain’t gonna blame them, it is their duty – as much as it’s the Muslims duty – to be evangelical in our ways.
This, to my mind and experience, is the issue why there is so much brouhaha about this. It is unfortunate that proselytizing to Muslims is against the law in Malaysia, but that is the law.
The fundamental problem lies with these men-made laws which unfortunately is the law of the land. You can fault the Christians for wanting to spread their religion, it is their way of life. Christianity is an evangelical religion, like Islam. And like Islam, it is the duty of the followers of the said religions to propagate their respective ‘words of God.’
The strongest proponents of the usage of Allah by non-Muslims are divided into three groups: 1. the evangelical group who wants to spread the words of Jesus; 2. the politicians who politicize the issue with hopes to score brownie points; 3. The politicians who are also evangelists.
Whether this board agrees with me or not, I can’t help but feel and think that our thinking process nowadays is influenced by which part of the political divide we belong to. And it’s sad.
As for me, those who know of me on Dr Rafick’s blog will attest that, like many people out there, I want a new government.
But when it comes to convictions, I’m proud to state here that my religious one is more important than my political one.
HuaYong
January 15, 2013
bro s18, yes, i can attest to that, and i fully agree with u on politicised of the issue from both end, particularly pr. however i have a question after reading your comment, if proselytizing to muslims is against the law, then i think the law to a certain degree is sort of protective measure regardless of mala fide or whatever, is that still necessary to have such pre-emptive move ie on term used. i wish to stress that i have no stand, i hope to hear/learn more, input from ellese n hasan is appreciated as well.
Sabahan 18
January 15, 2013
Sup, HY?
As I have always maintained, I have no problem with this issue, nor do I have a problem with Christians wanting to proselytize. Christianity is an evangelical religion, as mentioned, and it’s in their DNA to do as such.
To your question, yes, it is against the law in Malaysia to proselytize to Muslims. You’re right, the law was enacted and passed to serve as a protective measure for proselytization but the thing is, for donkey years, it’s been the law and no one has made a big deal with it.
Is it necessary? The government – during the time it was enacted – seemed to think so. I suppose it’s part of the compromise that UMNO and the non-Muslim parties within BN.
Where I come from, there never was an issue with the usage of Allah in the bibles. It is only when the evangelical politicians – especially the ones from DAP – started being at the forefront of this ‘issue’ that things have become complicated, and too politicized.
The mala fide I was referring to is the ‘rationale’ by which this so-called crusaders use to get the government to allow for such usage. I do respect their right to propagate their religion but I would respect them even more if they do not hide behind ludicrous veils of lies.
The issue is, to me, the law. They should question the law that prohibits them from doing what their religion asks them to do. If they are truly truthful, why not just come out and state the real reason why you’re fighting to use Allah?
It’s really a catch 22 situation. They want to use Allah in the bible to facilitate proselytization but they can’t say that because they would run foul of the law in placed.
If we can be totally honest, how many of these proponents actually use the translated bible? Do people really think that these archbishops, bishops, priests and evangelists read the BM bible?
I’m sure you know the answer to this, no?
Ellese
January 15, 2013
It’s been a while. I somehow miss our exchange. This haris censors my views many many times. I set up a blog hakbersuara.wordpress to publish the censored view and to condemn these hypocrites.
Sabahan 18
January 15, 2013
Hey LSE,
I do visit your blog from time to time.
Let me tell you though that I don’t like your blog header photo! LOL
I will post there when I have something to say constructively.
Ellese
January 16, 2013
🙂 sabahan, I’m promoting local artist ma. The Fuad’s piece is famous.
Ok I’ll try to find suitable paintings from sabah artists bayu utomo or Awang damit to replace it when the time comes. Bayu in particular is fantastic and strong. So ok tak? 🙂
Daniel
January 17, 2013
Troll-E,
Your blog really made my day.
So childish.
ROTFL.
wandererAUS
January 15, 2013
It is just plain politics UMNO is playing on this ‘Allah’ issue. Really, I don’t see why the big fuss. If you are God fearing, no matter what religion you belong to or how you want to refer your God is purely one’s choice. Are we not supposed to be mericfil and generous in our thoughts on others? So all religious pretenders, piss off!
Haris, I am now in KL, will soon be in my hometown. I shall remit my contribution to your cause then. ABU! God bless
God bless
Ellese
January 15, 2013
How come you don’t see DAP playing politics with Allah issue? We all see this.
Ellese
January 15, 2013
Bloody fool haris, why do you keep censoring contrarion views. Singa misleads. I write in full why and quoted the verse. Why must you practice selective censorship? Stupid fool.
RCAIM
January 15, 2013
Ellese,
You keep saying the verse is half-quoted and misleading. Please enlighten us by providing the complete verse and explaining how it misleads and what it should properly mean.
Ellese
January 15, 2013
Haris deleted and censor my write. Go and ask him why?
madey s/o kutty
January 15, 2013
baru nak gaduh pasal nama mamat tu?….satu kampong dah tahu mamat tu tak ujud
madey s/o kutty
January 15, 2013
it’s like arguing whether the tooth-fairy is a “natural woman” or a “ladyboy”….Yo! Yo! Yo! Bro…there’s NO tooth-fairy
madey s/o kutty
January 15, 2013
some say that Santa Claus drinks Coca-cola…some say Santa Claus drinks Pepsi-cola..so they fight over it..kill and maim each other..has it ever occurred to them that maybe, just maybe that there’s NO Santa Claus or that a cola is a cola is a cola?
Sam
January 17, 2013
Yeah, it’s like arguing whether madey s/o kutty is a “natural woman” or a “ladyboy”….Yo! Yo! Yo! Bro…there’s NO madey s/o kutty. It’s just a random cloud-generated name that happened to randomly land on this blog, spewing out random strings of alphabets………
Invictus
January 15, 2013
Haris, I suggest that you exercise your right to deny anything that comes from Ellese oops imbecile. Despite having been told off by several people, he consistently sends his rabid comments to you, which indicates to me that rather than being a BN troll as has been postulated, he harbours a very personal dislike, bordering on hatred, for you. He adds no value to your blog.
Another Anak Bangsa Malaysia
January 15, 2013
Troll-Ellese is a troll from BN.
Troll-Ellese is made up of several persons. One starts the trolling and another continues it.
Ellese
January 16, 2013
Dear lying Tin kosong AABM,
I told you to stop lying. There’s only me and no one else using the name. I write my own views which i believe in and will justify it. So please stop this lying.
Another Anak Bangsa Malaysia
January 16, 2013
Troll-Ellese,
I will leave it to others to judge you on their own 🙂 Heheheheh!! No help required from moi 🙂
I have already decided on what you are and so far, I see no reason to change my decision.
You are a BN troll who is several persons in one 🙂
Your written responses swing wildly from well-written English to almost incomprehensible English.
Your reasoning skills range from well-thought, well-laid out writings to almost unintelligible gibberish.
Your behaviour varies between an experienced adult person to an immature bumbling amateur.
If that does not suggest several persons using the same nick, I don’t know what is 🙂
Ellese
January 16, 2013
Dear tin kosong lying AABM,
I repeat for the umpteenth time. Stop lying. It’s only me. I write at various time when I’m free and in different style. The write when I’m sleepy or rushing things are different from a write when I have free time. A write to respond to ignorant remarks are different from a write to an honest intellect. Comprende? So stop lying.
Another Anak Bangsa Malaysia
January 17, 2013
Dance for us, troll, DANCE!!! :))
RCAIM
January 15, 2013
Maybe if you learn to be polite, Ellese, others including Haris may listen to what you have to say. It does seem to be hard for you to do, but can you try? Does not your religion teach you to be polite, Ellese?
Ellese
January 15, 2013
I did write politely. See my censored write at my blog. But went mad when he still censor me.
Another Anak Bangsa Malaysia
January 15, 2013
Troll-Ellese is not interested in having people listen.
Invictus
January 15, 2013
As for the article by Singa Terhormat, I have yet to read a more reasoned and logical commentary on the use of ‘Allah’. Taking as only one example the fact that in the Middle East, God is referred to by non-Muslims as Allah, indicates that in Malaysia we have allowed political considerations to cloud our understanding of the inherent principles of Islam.
Ellese
January 15, 2013
You read selectively and not trying to empatized and find the truth.
Sabahan 18
January 15, 2013
Invictus,
With deepest regret, I would like to say that the one example you quoted is completely a misguided one.
Yes, Allah is commonly use in the Middle East but they are native Arabic speakers, we are not. Allah is an Arabic word and for a non-Arabic speaking nation to argue based on that is just, in my mind, sophomoric.
I would strongly implore you to read more on the subject, provided of course, if you really want to learn and do more. Doing a cut and paste of the weak arguments that had been bandied around will not suffice.
Just saying.
Peace 🙂
Invictus
January 16, 2013
Sabahan 18, non-Muslims in Indonesia also use the word Allah to refer to God. As you know, they speak (Indonesian) Malay. Just saying. Peace, too.
Ellese
January 16, 2013
Since when bahasa Indonesia and bahasa Malaysia are the same? Indons are not Malay. They are bugis, Javanese, Sundanese, Bataks etc etc. Malays are only from riau. Why are you reading selectively?
S. Menon
January 15, 2013
We can discuss this topic until the cows come home, and nothing will change. The same subject will come up again, time after time, and, again, nothing will change.
The Malaysian Government does not follow Islam per se – they promote their own personalised politicised version of it, in order to seem more holy that other Muslim leaders. I often wonder just how many of them can actually read the Koran and understand the Arabic script!
During my childhood, though the Malays were still Muslims, they never really made a public stance of it, nor blare out the calls to prayer loudly from the mosques using loudspeakers. Not even on Friday, when they all dressed up in baju to go to for prayers.
And, every Deepavali, all of us children used to be sent out with a large tray, full to the brim with savouries and sweetmeats, to deliver to Chinese and Malay households in the immediate vicinity of our hiouse, our parents doing likewise, by car, to those living farther afield.
And, during Chinese New Year and Hari Raya, the Chinese and Malay families would do likewise. This no longer happens. We, to our shame, just celebrate our festivals separately!
At the KGV School in Seremban, there was a hostel for Malay children coming far off places such as Jelebu, Tampin, Kuala Pilah and Sri Menanti – they would go home only during the holidays. But, on some weekends, a few of my classmates would come and stay at my house.
We would spread our mattresses on the ground, laid sideways on the accommodate the extra bodies, play together all day, eat the same food, and there were never any problems. Their parents were quite happy to see their children taken care of by another family, rather than have to remain isolated in boarding. Much the same happened when I was at the VI in KL.
What happened? Is this what they call progress? Our politicians, and the imams who support the politicisation of Islam, have a lot to answer for!
Ellese
January 15, 2013
Agree. In school last time, I had one Indian and Chinese friend. We would laugh together, faced hardship together, camp together. Knew the family well. So much so that without their knowledge, I felt guilty in receiving scholarship that I didn’t even accept it. Took a loan and paid back every sen.
Now my children are deprived of non Malay friends. None in their classes. Its sad to see that they won’t be able to empathize with one another but carry the prejudices until their working life. It appears more and more prefer our race to be separated. Sad. Sad. Sad.
Sabahan 18
January 15, 2013
Well put, S. Meon.
I totally agree with you.
Unfortunately, politics has ruined what is beautiful about this country.
Worst, people have stopped thinking; they now ‘think’ based on which coalition they support.
Sam
January 17, 2013
S Menon, old fogeys like me can endorse your touching recollections of those bygone days when we were all just buddies of various hues. You want to know what happened? Check out the comment by tst january 16. No prizes for guessing who is behind tst’s kind of ideology.
annabrella
April 21, 2013
Based on what Singa Terhormat has written here, do they, the bastard UMNO/BN politicians like Mahthir, and their religious politician munafiqs and pretend “Muslims” not know what the Holy Qur’an says or what that the Prophet (pbuh) has warned:
“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.” (Abu Dawud)”
I think I can safely say that I can foresee lots of munafiq UMNO/BN burnt toast courtesy of an Almighty Allah……smile.
“Imgaine Power To The People” John Lennon.
shakuntala
January 15, 2013
Let’s suffer him gladly this jester amongst us called Ellese, for if you answer him his conceit will only increase. He has probably been rejected and is taking shelter in Haris’s blog…let’s feel sorry for him!
F200
January 15, 2013
I disagree with Mr Haris’s arguments. Most believe this is a question of theology, they are partially right. But I see this issue mostly from the language side of it. Though there is a theological basis in the philological aspect of it.
The word “Allah” comes into this region in Arab Islamic meaning of “God (The One and Only)”. It is taken and understood in the Malay language as a specific and definitive name of The One and Only God of Islam (with it is the understanding of the nature of Allah according to Islam).
In the context of the Malaysian Churches application to use the word “Allah” in a Malay translated Bible for such words as “Lord” or “God” is contrary to the meaning of the word “Allah” in Malay. Since as you well know, the Christian doctrine (as set by the Nicene and other creeds) of the Trinity refers to the concept of “One God in Three hypostases”.
The word “Allah” in Kamus Dewan Edisi Empat give the meaning as “Tuhan (Yang Esa)”. Therefore the usage of the word “Allah” in a Malay translated Bible would be highly erroneous and contrary to the Christian doctrine. A better substitute in Malay would be the word “tuhan” which is a general term for god. By capitalising the word you can make it into a specific name.
I hope my argument is clear and understandable.
Ellese
January 16, 2013
As I said in my censored write, the issue is the usage of Allah in bm. It’s not in Arabic. It’s also the same issue in English. If you look at English dictionaries, Allah has been defined as the Moslems god. Thus they don’t use Allah to refer to god in the English bible. It has a different meaning.
This term has been used here in Malaysia for generation to refer to the Muslim god. When we sing the state anthem that Allah refers to the Muslims god. Non Muslim can use and been using it in bm to refer to the Muslim’s god. For generic term we have tuhan to refer to god. Very similar to English. In english They have god and Allah where Allah is specific. Now for Muslims Allah is seen as a very deep term of endearment reciting it countless of times in a day. Now you want to change the meaning of it? Why don’t you use tuhan? How come you don’t want to change god to Allah in English bible? What is the actual intent?
The line of argument is that its been used for 4 hundred years. I wrote in my censored write that this is not true. It’s a recent phenomena. I don’t want to be censored again. Go google when christianity was introduced in Malaysia. To many Muslims the reason for wanting to use Allah in malaysia is in S18 write ie to proselytize. This is against our constitutional value which we agree to uphold.
I write politely like this the last time. Tak kan this kena censor juga?
Sam
January 16, 2013
F200,
“to use the word “Allah” in a Malay translated Bible for such words as “Lord” or “God” is contrary to the meaning of the word “Allah” in Malay”
This sweeping argument of exclusivity of the term “Allah” to Islam, just doesn’t hold water in the light of historical facts. Nevertheless, your last line:
“A better substitute in Malay would be the word “tuhan” which is a general term for god. By capitalising the word you can make it into a specific name.” is indeed a brilliant suggestion.
The English Bible denotes “god” (in small letters) to refer to any generic deity, and “God”(with the capitalized G) to denote the One Almighty God. Along the same format, the BM version could use “tuhan” and “Tuhan”. All that remains would be a suitable BM word for “Lord”. I think “Tuanku” would be the closest (and most dignified). But if that is “trademarked” by the Malaysian Royalty, what about something like “yang Arif”? So “the Lord Jesus Christ” would read as “yang arif Yesus Kristus”. Howzat, F200? Suggestions anyone?
Now, if this compromise were agreeable to the Christians, would the authorities then respond by doing away with their paranoid restrictions on printing, distribution and rubber-stamping of BM Bibles? Hmm……….
Taipan
January 16, 2013
Isn’t it strange that people often place so much emphasis upon religious beliefs, and yet neglect the basic duties of our ordinary life which are commanded on every page of the Qu’ran/Gospels? Shouldn’t religion be less of a theory and more of a love affair?
Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion—several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn’t straight. When religion is in the hands of the mere natural man, he is always the worse for it; it adds a bad heat to his own dark fire and helps to inflame his four elements of selfishness, envy, pride, and wrath. And hence it is that worse passions, or a worse degree of them are to be found in persons of great religious zeal than in others that made no pretenses to it. Religious creeds encourage some of the craziest kinds of thoughts, emotions, and behaviors and favor severe manifestations of neurosis, borderline personality states, and sometimes even psychosis.
I am perplexed at the stupidity of the ordinary religious being. In the most practical of all matters he will talk and speculate and try to feel, but he will not set himself to do. If there’s going to be a 3rd World War…..you’re looking at it!
Ellese
January 16, 2013
Can you cut short? What’s your view? Can Allah be referred to non Moslems god? Then we see the context of your writing. If you think this Allah issue is ridiculous, my answer is that you’re disconnected to the world unable to understand and empathize. Ill await your reply if you do reply.
shakuntala
January 16, 2013
For the sake of argument only and nothing else, please, we cannot be wise about God at all. We cannot prove the truth about God, only because He is a mystery….no earthly deduction can give HIM his right dimension….to an Eternity. To my small vulnerable mind, I always associate God/Power with Space…..unfathomable, ungraspable, so HUGE (but totally beautiful!) that I have to just acknowledge the magnitude and the Glory and nothing else, of HIM who rules over us.
F200..your explanation or attempt at it suffers….even Christians believe and worship only One God, Who is threefold….the Father, the Son and the Spirit….I refuse to go any further, as it becomes mere polemics . I do not want to reduce the Majesty of God to the level of mortal disputes as Science itself has not the means to investigate …..God the Almighty.
So please, just let’s adore the Almighty…..praise and worship Him, for the well-being of all mankind. The important message should always be peace and goodwill to all men..
Alan
January 16, 2013
I remember when I was a kid in a small kampong amongst all my Muslim community. The Chinese and Indians (non Muslim or kafirs being likely to be referred here to; and not insan Allah I suppose) when referring to god in any conversation; use the term “Tuan Allah” to their Muslim friends and likewise the Muslims (including the pak imam himself) does the same when engaging in conversation when describing about god in general. How simple life was then compared to present day chaotic racial/religious divide. Remember that; we are all insan Allah (or Jehovah in my text) and Allah created us all in the first place when he created the world. All men are brothers.
May the mighty Allah bless the ignorants with an open heart and grant the whole world great peace always. We need you more than ever now here in Malaysia.
Amin
Jack
January 16, 2013
I submitted a post on a locally initiated translation of the bible into BM in the 70s but it was not published. Don’t know why.
Moving on, the debate seems to be from the angle of who has the right to use this word in BM. No one seems to have touched on the history of the 3 Abrahamic religion and why they use the common word to refer to God. The translation into BM is not from English. It is taken from the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic text.
The the “confusion” being touted as the reason for barring its usage does not bode well for a person’s faith.
The issue is with the Christians of Sabah and Sarawak. They have been using the BM bible for many years. As the ex-mufti of Perlis said, there is no prohibition on the use of the word from religious perspective. But if laws are to be formulated to keep peace, then let it be that. It should not be because the word is exclusive to one religion, and such laws must not be in conflict with our constitution.
However, we also cannot have 2 sets of laws, one for Sabah and Sarawak and one for the folks in Peninsula Malaysia.
So, does someone have any suggestion as to how this should be handled, short of just making the word exclusive and banning everyone else from using it?
Cheers.
Sabahan 18
January 16, 2013
Jack,
There’s never been an issue with Sabah and Sarawak. The issue is with the Malayan peeps.
There are ‘two sets of laws’ as you pointed is both correct and wrong at the same time. The Federal Constitution is the supreme law of the land, so it covers the wrong part of your statement.
Having said that, while it is embedded in the FC that Islam is the religion of the Federation, one needs to refer to the Sabah and Sarawak State Constitutions where – per the 18 and 20 point agreements – we don’t have any ‘official’ religion. This, as practiced in the East for donkey years, allows for the usage.
The pro-usage peeps should challenge the law that is the root cause of this whole mess, i.e. forbidding of proselytization to Muslims. Citing examples of usage in other parts of the world will not make any difference. Come out and say it, that the reason why you want to use Allah is so that it is easier to propagate and hopefully convert.
That is the real truth, no need to hide behind misplaced and incomplete theologian arguments.
Jack
January 17, 2013
Well, in my “unpublished” post, I wrote about when the BM translation of the bible came about for Peninsula Malaysia. Perjanjian Baharu: Berita baik untuk manusia moden was translated by a local clergy and published by Bible Society of Singapore, Malaysia & Brunei. It was first published in the 70s. You can find this in amazon.com.
If you google it, you can find many articles relating to this BM bible, and the translator behind it.
Thus, this is not a new issue. It’s not like we suddenly woke up and found that we are arguing over whether one can translate God to Allah. But now that this has become an issue, and a huge one at that, I would like to see our lawmakers address this instead of claiming “copyright” to use the word.
I have relatives who are natives of Sabah. They speak BM at home and they work in Peninsula Malaysia. Who is to tell them that they cannot access to publications in BM that has the word Allah when in Peninsula Malaysia? Are we 2 countries?
The constitution gives the states rights to formulate laws to restrict proselytizing to Muslims. But the constitution did not give them the right to also restrict use of any language.
Cheers.
Pak Yeh
January 16, 2013
You have cherry picked the use of Allah only in the context of a proper use of Allah, by quoting the Quranic verse. But you have not looked at the morality of mistranslation of namrs/proper noun, and you ignore too that, many verses of the Quran state the opposite of what Christians claim in the use of Allah,namely Allah is not a trinity and Allah does not have a son.
You are blind to the fact that Christians changing their gods name is a deception to lie about god. Please read the debate @
http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2013/01/christian-changing-gods-name-is.html
and upgrade your Islamic knowledge please. An extract of the article is given below. If you disagree with the explanations,please debate at the comments site.
————————
Don’t Christians and MR HARRIS IBRAHIM understand that it is illegal and devious to change someones name, and even more so your God’s name.??? YOU DONT MIND ME CHANGING YOUR NAME AND YOUR FARGERS NAME<MR HARRIS IBRAHIM.???
Doing that could land them in hell if their God Yaweh disagree with the name change.!!!
Christians have changed Yaweh's name to Father, And then they made Jesus the son of the Father./God.!!! Not only that, by calling their Priest Father,they thus made their Priests a God too.!!!
They also made the Holy Ghost/Pontianak a god.!!!
I am sure Yaweh is angry about that because Yaweh is a One God.!!!Refer Bible,..
Isaiah 45:10,11,12.
"I am the only god. There is none before Me and none after Me.And there is no Savior accept Me".
The same deception will happen when Christians change their God's name to Allah. Allah will then also be given the name Father. Then Jesus can be made the son. And by calling their Priest Father, the Priests get to be Allah too.!!! You think Allah would like this.???
This is what Christian deception is about. They must have learned this deception trick from Hitler's Propoganda Minister,Joeseph Geobbles, who said,"A lie repeated many times, becomes a truth."
They must have learned this deception trick from Satan too, because Satan is the Chief Deceiver.
Refer Quran.31:33 "… nor let the Chief Deceiver (Satan) deceive you about Allah."
Quran 35:5 "O men! certainly the promise of Allah is true, Let not then this present life deceive you, nor let the Chief Deceiver deceive you about Allah."
Sabahan 18
January 16, 2013
+1, Pak Yeh.
Taipan
January 16, 2013
Take your questions to Shahrifah Zohra. Like you, she is also a product from a 100% ranked University that has no equals. All that was required is LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN!
And Malaysians have been ‘listening’ for over half a century!
Ellese
January 16, 2013
Why is RPK threatening me not to write here? ( see his commentary at my blog ). Is he the singa which was caught for consistently spreading lies?
Pak Yeh
January 16, 2013
If Christians want to change their Gods name to Allah, might as well change your Bible for Allah’s book the Quran. Problem settled.
Sam
January 17, 2013
Absolutely correct Pak Yeh, The Christians might as well use whatever word they want to call their God or their Holy Book and let them further confuse themselves. Let the rest of us butt out of their confusion. Problem settled.
tst
January 16, 2013
Invictus, go to google translate ( http://translate.google.com/ ) then translate لَا إِلَّهَ إِلَّا الله (Source: Wiki) to Malay ; then to Indonesian.
Even an artificial intelligence (computer) know the difference in the languange.
Language aside, it is a sad thing when it dawns to me ( as a muslim that have no link to any political parties) that some Christian communities taking advantage of unstable political climate after Pak Lah era to took advantage of the situation to attract unnecessary attention to themselves in the name of Constituition. After years of voting BN, I took a leap of ‘political’ faith to vote DAP in my const in the last PRU. As an ordinary Malay muslim, It was really difficult to vote DAP at first after years of DAP being branded as anti-Muslim by UMNO/BN. May be it is easier for the Chinese or other non-muslims to vote DAP,…But I thought to myself have to do the right thing. As you all knew, the rest was history. However, when some issues like kalimah Allah or Islamic related surfaced and Guan Eng make few clever statements, I’m really sad that some people didn’t have some diplomacy when talking sensitive thing like this. We are not Indonesian and we are not Arabs. So think like a Malaysianlah. When we talk about Malaysia, we cant run away from the Malays as they are the majority. I dont want to blow my own trumpet, but I need to state a fact that Malays are well known as having a high degree of tolerancy. Non-Malays may not agree about this lately but it could simply meant that an “angry-bird” indicator is in the making…… I cant force Non-Malays to accept my opinion these l, but this is something that used to happen here in Malaya. Most richest persons in Malaysian are not Malays, but Malays are okay with it as they are fellow Malaysians. Most businesses are own by other Malaysians, but Malays are okay with it. Heck all worldly things belongs to non-Malays , Malays are still okaying with it…. The Malays I talked about here are NOT UMNOrians by god sake. When other Malaysians i.e Christians talk about their rights as if the whole Malaysia is Sarawak or Indonesia then the Malays tolerance factor could be slowly evaporate. Divide and rule is a winning formula for UMNO/BN but don’t let that happen to PRakyat. And pls remind our good PKMenteri Guan Eng that he is a good Ketua Menteri but ask him to don’t preach Muslims how to deal with the name of the God because simply the Muslims are powerless compared to the OneGod. We live only once and die once. When we live we need the right political power, and the political power in a democratic country need the votes of the majority in Malaysia i.e. the Muslims, so pls unite and respect the others so you’ll be mutually respected. When we dead, we all can go to our respective God or Gods and live like Zombies happily ever after.
Sam
January 17, 2013
Aiyoyo tst, now you got me confused. All this while I thought I was living in a Parliamentary Democracy with a Constitutional Monarchy where I am free to vote for anyone I choose. No more ah?
Haris, HELP!!!!!!
Sabahan 18
January 16, 2013
Reply to Invictus (Somehow, I can’t reply his reply to my reply lol)
He said:
“Sabahan 18, non-Muslims in Indonesia also use the word Allah to refer to God. As you know, they speak (Indonesian) Malay. Just saying. Peace, too.”
I knew you were going to come back with citing that as an example.
Indonesia is a country where proselytization is allowed. And if you were to refer to the history of christian evangelism there, you’d find that Allah was/is used to preach Christianity and proselytize to the Muslims.
In Malaysia, we have had no issues in the East, like Indonesia. And while it is still forbidden – per the Federal Constitution – Sabah and Sarawak has no official religion, unlike Malaya.
See the difference?
This is what I mean by ‘cut and paste’ thoughts.
Again, just saying 🙂
Sam
January 16, 2013
Sabahan, don’t be stuck at the “anti-proselytization law” excuse. You know something? Ever since the call to “be my witnesses” went out 2000 years, never has there been any law ever devised anywhere in the world that has ever stopped countless people of all languages from coming to know about the gospel of love and the gift of eternal life.
Just saying.
Alan
January 16, 2013
Omg Pak Yeh. You have much to learn about Christianity before you give your view points. I rest my case here. You don’t even know what is holy ghost and you belittled the Christian fate here by equating holy ghost to pontianak. Do you see others here belittling Islam as a religion here? Surely GOD does not teach us to act like this regardless of which fate you belongs to. Just don’t be too sure one is going to heaven comes judgement day … For hell surely awaits most if us base on the Pareto Principle.
shakuntala
January 16, 2013
Please refer your comments to Singha Terhormat and not to Haris….you have to respect Haris for being on his blog….I think that is one of the un-written rules.
Don’t be so childish la Pak Yeh,….an earthly person’s name cannot be changed due to legal reasons, mistakes can occur of course.
But God I dare say does not mind what we call Him….so speak with some intelligence and do not get emotional……this is what happens when you follow organized religions. Instead of peace and goodwill there is always argument and hatred..
Another Anak Bangsa Malaysia
January 16, 2013
shakuntala,
It’s very simple.
Organised religion = Power + Money
Hate is the glue which holds it all together.
Peace and goodwill? Forget it!! No money or power in that 🙂
Zahariah
January 17, 2013
By the way Ellese, how is it going with Helen?
Adam
January 18, 2013
Who .. is Helen? Helen of Troy?
Zahariah
January 18, 2013
Well, Ellese, do you want to tell about your Helen?
Sam
January 19, 2013
Ellese, here’s another “half-verse-quoting”, “F grade” academic, who displays “shallowness on the Quran and usul fiqh”. Probably also “deluded by haris oops singa argument”. Go knock him out!
bw
January 20, 2013
Sam, if you checked his credential http://drmaza.com/home/?page_id=585
he is ulamak hadith, not Quran..
Sam
January 21, 2013
Aw shucks. i thought an congenial, articulate ex-state mufti with a “MA in Pengajian Islam. Ph.D in Islamic Revealed Knowledge And Haritage (Al-Quran And Sunnah Studies), UIA (2003)”, who has written 24 books and 44 thesis, was just the person to put to rest the issue at hand. Well, I suppose we all just have concede that Ellese still holds the unbeaten credentials then………?
bw
January 21, 2013
Sorry to disappoint you Sam, that’s why he’s an-ex Mufti I supposed. If you want to compare him with Ellese, you may say (with permission from Ellese) that he is the ‘Ellese’ type of Islamic scholar. You Christians may try your luck again later, pick your Champion carefully next time.
Pak Yeh
January 20, 2013
MAZA is is stupid enough not to debate the other side of the debate,ie the reliability/professionalism and truth, when names are changed from their original names in the Bible ie that names/proper nouns cannot be changed in any translation.